PAP's New Strategy - will it work?

[zhihau]

What exactly is your message for us here

me thought it was more pertinent to ask who he/she voted for :p:p:p

 

[SgParent]

The competition does not always always benefit the consumers.

Wow so clever ah you? Want to challenge that fundamental theory. Bring it on.

You can see with your own eyes what is happening in America. Nobody gets anything done in parliament because there is too much competition. Nobody wants to budge. Or even if there is competition, it is competition in the form of "I'll cut your taxes" or "I'll spend more". Either way, the budget gets fucked. That's why the US is in a shithole of debt. So no, you are not right. Competition is not always a good thing.

Aiyoway I thought what. America politic is a duopoly lah. Google to see what a duopoly means in terms of real competition.

Btw why you described America's duopoly political system like it's a complete failure? Are you saying the no competition/monopoly we have in Singapore is superior?

I don't know if the oppo ...

Sorry too many words. I got bored.

The fact is, the White Scums have been leading true pink Singaporeans and their children into the drain because we dun have any meaningful political competition and therefore the White Scums dun have a single incentive to innovate, to think out of the box. So how much worse off can we possibly get even if we voted in some monkeys, some used tissue papers, etc, etc?

For now you just need to appreciate the simple fact that in today's context, you dun have a choice. You dun get to choose whether you want to continue with the overfed Temasek/GLC or open up the market to encourage innovations. Or you can't influence whether to keep the public transport services privatized or return them to state-run. You also dun have a say if you wanted any Casino, F1, etc, etc.

With enough political choices/competition, you can decide for yourself how you want to do things and then vote for the politician/party that will carry out you wish. And you can be sure the politicians/parties will be eager to offer their solution, to perform, etc, etc, so that you will continue their employment contract.

 

[SgParent]

Yes, voting out your masters...

Jesus. Where did that "master" thing come from?

 

[zhihau]

Jesus. Where did that "master" thing come from?

bwahahahahahahaa...

 

[metalmickey]

So how much worse off can we possibly get even if we voted in some monkeys, some used tissue papers, etc, etc?

That is bleak man bleak. So can I say that you're not really disagreeing with me?

I am not saying that we should not have a plan B. I am saying exactly what you are saying - that you don't really know if your plan B sucks.

Jesus. Where did that "master" thing come from?

For now you just need to appreciate the simple fact that in today's context, you dun have a choice. You dun get to choose whether you want to continue with the overfed Temasek/GLC or open up the market to encourage innovations. Or you can't influence whether to keep the public transport services privatized or return them to state-run. You also dun have a say if you wanted any Casino, F1, etc, etc.

You said it yourself.

 

[mojito]

Jesus. Where did that "master" thing come from?

Freudian slip?

 

[metalmickey]

me thought it was more pertinent to ask who he/she voted for :p:p:p

Do you even have to ask me that?

And by the way, are you actually taking umbrage at me calling you a sheep?

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Lets cut the story short. 2016, you vote PAP or opposition?

I'll say again. I want both tracks. We want to kick out the PAP, and we want to see with our eyes wide open what we're voting in. Otherwise it'll just be like China welcoming the communist party with open arms after they kicked out the nationalists. The communists won the hearts and minds of the people. And we know how that went.

I want both tracks because also I am not happy with the people of Singapore for the reasons that you mentioned. They are sheep. They used to be pro-PAP sheep, now they are anti-PAP sheep. Either way they are sheep. We have competition for ideas. People are starting to debate and think. The opposition is starting to get more sophisticated - at least I hope they are because in the last half year since by-elections most of the news is coming from PAP. Both the people and the opposition have a long way to go. If the opposition talks about ideas and policy, how is this going to retard their progress? It's going to make them less electable if they actually have substance? This is not either or.

If we do not have transparency in opposition ranks today, we will not have it when they come into power. They'll just be like New Labour, sweep everybody off their feet, and not making the country better. If you say, the ends justify the means, important thing is that we are the right people, the important thing is to get the right people into power, that is exactly the same thing the PAP has said to us over the years.

Ministerial resources - speaking of that I also want the civil servants, the former civil servants to either speak up, or supply clandestine aid to the opposition.

 

[eremarf]

(Yes I'm new - I signed up because the conversation here looks interesting. Hello guys )

I'm also an Aljunied WP voter (although I'm vaguely more aligned with SDP ideas). I have some thoughts about some people's demands for the opposition to have ideas or even be policy wonks.

But I bumped up against the 500 character limit for a new account. Hmmm. What should I do? Post it in bits and pieces I guess?

 

[metalmickey]

I was beginning to enjoy your debates as it keep this forum healthy until you kept insinuating that the people of Aljunied who voted in the WP did this out of spite. I voted for them in 06 and 11 because i want a change in how things are being runned and not because i am not a sheep. What exactly is your message for us here

Where did I say that? Quote me a quote.

I voted opposition by the way, in case you guys are still too daft to figure that out or you don't want to believe that. Most people here did that, right? If you didn't, I don't want to know.

You will vote opposition for roughly these few reasons.
1. You believe that the opposition is of higher caliber
2. You believe that the opposition has a better heart
3. You believe in better, more balanced discussion
4. You believe in the Opposition's alternative vision for Singapore.
5. You don't think that the opposition are good enough to lead you forward, but you hope that voting them into some power will help them grow and develop into something better.
6. You vote out of spite
7. You vote them because they are not PAP

For 1, I think that the standard of the opposition is somewhere in between the PAP ministers and the PAP backbenchers. I saw Gan Thiam Poh talking about PM Lee's salary - $1 for every Singaporean citizen. Well, it's not a very high hurdle if you think that you have to be better than that.

For 2, we believe that for the most part. However I don't have to elaborate what many of you people here think about a few guys like Goh Meng Seng. But having a good heart is not enough.

For 3, definitely. But pointing out problems is not the same thing as coming up with good solutions, and coming up with good solutions is not the same as executing them well.

For 4, I'll believe it when I see it.

For 5, I'd say this is the main reason why I voted opposition. And if I don't see the potential developing I will reconsider. Thick Face Black Heart said that before LKY became chief minister he didn't work in British admin. OK, but it turns out that way before 1959, the PAP already had Rajaretnam, Toh Chin Chye, Goh Keng Swee. They also had some guy called Lim Chin Siong - heh. They already started negotiating for independence with the British. That's what we're comparing Pritam Singh and company against.

For 6, I didn't bring this up. But now that it has been brought up, how many of you out there are voting opposition out of spite? There is a great deal of dissatisfaction about the PAP, but there are still a few things I would keep about them. They have not changed Singapore for the better but they have changed Singapore a lot. I'd be hoping that whoever comes in next will be as active as they are.

For 7, there is a small difference between this and voting them out of spite. If there are only negative reasons rather than positive reasons well maybe you don't feel you have a choice but it is a bit cynical.

 

[metalmickey]

Lets cut the story short. 2016, you vote PAP or opposition?

I don't know. Most probably the latter.

 

[metalmickey]

Yes I see it now. It is clear you are the one who will make a difference! Please stand for elections in 2016 so that these opposition neophytes can learn how to wrestle with the PAP machinery.

I don't see myself standing for elections. I'm not as good a public speaker as a keyboard warrior. But I had said a lot about policy analysis and I am considering contributing to an opposition party.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I don't know. Most probably the latter.

Respect your choice whatever it may be.

 

[scroobal]

The reasons you cited below are superficial and are more rhetoric in nature and better classified as symptoms arising from a deeper structural issues.

People are now better educated and more informed. They know the value of their vote. They would like to invest in their future for themselves and their children. They want to see this country prosper. They are looking for a more sustainable form of institution than the present form of single dominant party.

The PAP passed into law a piece of legislation where no private investigation can take place where they are concerned. Why you think that happened and how you think it got passed into law. Its a simple example and seemingly trivial item but it shows the abuse of power. I hope you understand why this law was passed and the personality involved.

You will vote opposition for roughly these few reasons.
1. You believe that the opposition is of higher caliber
2. You believe that the opposition has a better heart
3. You believe in better, more balanced discussion
4. You believe in the Opposition's alternative vision for Singapore.
5. You don't think that the opposition are good enough to lead you forward, but you hope that voting them into some power will help them grow and develop into something better.
6. You vote out of spite
7. You vote them because they are not PAP

 

[scroobal]

Seriously bro, you should vote for the PAP. Don't vote for the opposition if you do not understand what is going on or you do not understand why people are looking to bring about more accountabilit and the reaosn for it.

I don't know. Most probably the latter.

 

[Leongsam]

But I bumped up against the 500 character limit for a new account. Hmmm. What should I do? Post it in bits and pieces I guess?

You are now out of moderation and that restriction has been removed automatically.

 

[zhihau]

Do you even have to ask me that?

why not? it is always better to know where you're coming from

btw, me is an ordinary sinkie sheep :p:p:p

 

[zhihau]

Seriously bro, you should vote for the PAP.

bro,
like that is no good, opposition rugi 1 vote :(:(:(

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Seriously bro, you should vote for the PAP. Don't vote for the opposition if you do not understand what is going on or you do not understand why people are looking to bring about more accountabilit and the reaosn for it.

Ask the Metal Mickey Mouse to work at least 6 months in the USA or another first world country where he believes a gridlocked Parliament/Congress is an impedance to good governance, and politicians of all stripes and shady backgrounds provide too many distractions for the good of the people and threaten to squander the reserves to buy their votes.

Then come back to SG where our efficient parliament passes bills and legislation 100 times quicker than anywhere else on Earth and nothing stands in the way of the common good, not even archaic and outdated notions like fair play. THEN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION.

 

[scroobal]

I used to force my mum to consider PAP but she was very uncomfortable and came out with similar reasons. As far as she is concerned, PAP gave her certainty in comparison to the past that she knew. Her generation all do not want to take the gamble. Every time there was strike in the US, UK etc or even earthquake, I got a telling off. As far as they are concerned, the PAP if given the opportunity can control earthquake.

But when the ponding started, she began giving excuses.

bro,
like that is no good, opposition rugi 1 vote :(:(:(