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[Loofydralb]

Idolators? Like the worshipers of the black stone?

How can Muslims take that as an idol?
All Muslims agree that, that stone has no powers. No ability to hear nor grant wishes. Even subjected to be destroyed at anytime. All these are the definition of worshipping an idol, which does not apply.
We kiss it because the Prophet kiss it out of it being a special stone sent down from heaven, otherwise we have no need for it.
Compare that to idols in the church that people talk to, and ask for wishes.

Learn to understand what is idolism.

 

[JohnTan]

This is like china cksiming SCS.
Any claims not in native tongue and language is null and void. Disqualified.

No muud land markers, muud property deeds or muud historical buildings in existence. No historical claim from muuds going by your own arguments.

 

[JohnTan]

How can Muslims take that as an idol?

moslems do take the stone as an idol. They bow before the stone, conduct regular religious rituals before and around the stone.

All Muslims agree that, that stone has no powers

They certainly don't. Many moslems believe that touching and kissing the black stone can cleanse their sins or bring good luck.

Yes. Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar (radiyallahu ‘anhuma) was asked as to why he would hustle [without harming anybody] and try to get close to the Ruknul Yamani and Hajarul Aswad. He replied, ‘I do it because I heard Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) say, ‘Touching them atones for sins’

(Sunan Tirmidhi, Hadith: 959 and Sunan Nasai; Al Mujtaba, Hadith: 2919. Also see: Sahih Ibn Khuzaymah, Hadith: 2729 and Sahih Ibn Hibban; Al Ihsan, Hadith: 3698)

 

[JohnTan]

And we are not forced to hand over money directly or subliminally.

You got to be kidding. The mohammedans are the only ones in Singapore who have a compulsory deduction from their monthly salary for islamic religion matters.

 

[Loofydralb]

You got to be kidding. The mohammedans are the only ones in Singapore who have a compulsory deduction from their monthly salary for islamic religion matters.

It's not compulsory. We give voluntarily. At any time we can exit from giving. MUIS knows that when it is given involuntarily, it becomes haram.

 

[syed putra]

No muud land markers, muud property deeds or muud historical buildings in existence. No historical claim from muuds going by your own arguments.

Our deeds and titles were in jawi and confiscated by the British museum. You can check the records in london.

 

[Loofydralb]

moslems do take the stone as an idol. They bow before the stone, conduct regular religious rituals before and around the stone.


They certainly don't. Many moslems believe that touching and kissing the black stone can cleanse their sins or bring good luck.

Yes. Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar (radiyallahu ‘anhuma) was asked as to why he would hustle [without harming anybody] and try to get close to the Ruknul Yamani and Hajarul Aswad. He replied, ‘I do it because I heard Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) say, ‘Touching them atones for sins’

(Sunan Tirmidhi, Hadith: 959 and Sunan Nasai; Al Mujtaba, Hadith: 2919. Also see: Sahih Ibn Khuzaymah, Hadith: 2729 and Sahih Ibn Hibban; Al Ihsan, Hadith: 3698)

Why do Christians have a habit of falsifying religious text, including their own bible?

I cannot find the one you posted but here I give you the closest example in it's original text in Arabic and its translation. It is from Tirmidhi 959.

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ، حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنْ عَطَاءِ بْنِ السَّائِبِ، عَنِ ابْنِ عُبَيْدِ بْنِ عُمَيْرٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، أَنَّ ابْنَ عُمَرَ، كَانَ يُزَاحِمُ عَلَى الرُّكْنَيْنِ زِحَامًا مَا رَأَيْتُ أَحَدًا مِنْ أَصْحَابِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَفْعَلُهُ ‏.‏ فَقُلْتُ يَا أَبَا عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ إِنَّكَ تُزَاحِمُ عَلَى الرُّكْنَيْنِ زِحَامًا مَا رَأَيْتُ أَحَدًا مِنْ أَصْحَابِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يُزَاحِمُ عَلَيْهِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَ إِنْ أَفْعَلْ فَإِنِّي سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِنَّ مَسْحَهُمَا كَفَّارَةٌ لِلْخَطَايَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ مَنْ طَافَ بِهَذَا الْبَيْتِ أُسْبُوعًا فَأَحْصَاهُ كَانَ كَعِتْقِ رَقَبَةٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَضَعُ قَدَمًا وَلاَ يَرْفَعُ أُخْرَى إِلاَّ حَطَّ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ بِهَا خَطِيئَةً وَكَتَبَ لَهُ بِهَا حَسَنَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى وَرَوَى حَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ عَنْ عَطَاءِ بْنِ السَّائِبِ عَنِ ابْنِ عُبَيْدِ بْنِ عُمَيْرٍ عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ نَحْوَهُ ‏.‏ وَلَمْ يَذْكُرْ فِيهِ عَنْ أَبِيهِ ‏.‏ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ ‏.‏
Ibn Ubaid bin Umair narrated from his father:
"Ibn Umar was clinging on the two corners (in a manner that I had not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet doing) so I said: 'O Abu Abdur-Rahman! You are clinging on the two corners in a manner that I have not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet clining.' So he said: 'I do it because I heard the Messenger of Allah saying: "Touching them atones for sins." And I heard him saying: "Whoever performs Tawaf around this House seven times and he keeps track of it, then it is as if he freed a slave." And I heard him saying: "One foot is not put down, nor another raised except that Allah removes a sin from him and records a good merit for him."

It is not from Abdullah ibn Umar. It is from Ubaid bin Umair. In fact it is not classified. Meaning it's authenticity has doubts.
Hadiths are only classified as authentic when they meet strict criteria among which is, it is in arabic, no contradictions, chain of narrations, character and reputation of narrators, when, where and to whom it was narrated, cross checking dates of narrators and whether the dates do coincide (did they possibly meet?), any other such similar hadith exists? And many more criteria.
This hadith is found in the old books of hadith and modern day of computer cross checking makes it easier to ascertain it's authenticity. That is why it is not classed as authentic. As you know there are many who try to fabricate hadith, even until today. When we find those hadith we leave them alone, nor do we attempt to change them. It is until today in it's form that we found it.


The most authentic hadith with respect to the black stone and is accepted by all scholars is Sunan Abi Dawud 1873:

حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ كَثِيرٍ، أَخْبَرَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، عَنْ عَابِسِ بْنِ رَبِيعَةَ، عَنْ عُمَرَ، أَنَّهُ جَاءَ إِلَى الْحَجَرِ فَقَبَّلَهُ فَقَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ أَنَّكَ حَجَرٌ لاَ تَنْفَعُ وَلاَ تَضُرُّ وَلَوْلاَ أَنِّي رَأَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يُقَبِّلُكَ مَا قَبَّلْتُكَ ‏.‏
Abis bin Rabi’ah said on the authority of ‘Umar He(‘Umar) came to the (Black) Stone and said “ I know for sure that you are a stone which can neither benefit nor injure and had I not seen the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ) kissing you, I would not have kissed you.”

Umar is one of the Prophet's closest companions and the 2nd caliph.

Wallahu Alam. Allah knows best.

 

[JohnTan]

Why do Christians have a habit of falsifying religious text, including their own bible?

On the contrary, I've shown you enough examples of moslems corrupting their own quran in modern times, and then lying about it to claim that their quran was never changed.

Dishonesty is truly a pillar of islam.

It is not from Abdullah ibn Umar. It is from Ubaid bin Umair. In fact it is not classified. Meaning it's authenticity has doubts.

It's your own moslem scriptures. If your own mohammedan scriptures are riddled with inaccuracies, it isn't my problem to sort it out for you to.

Umar is one of the Prophet's closest companions and the 2nd caliph.

Ah yes. He has a reputation for a bad temper and beating up women, including your fake prophet's daughter. He's your idea of a good moslem?

 

[JohnTan]

Our deeds and titles were in jawi and confiscated by the British museum. You can check the records in london.

In other words, you don't have any evidence.

 

[JohnTan]

It's not compulsory. We give voluntarily. At any time we can exit from giving. MUIS knows that when it is given involuntarily, it becomes haram.

If it isn't compulsory, then there's no need to automatically sign moslems up by default and then make them fill up a form to opt out.

In church, people opt in if they want. Nobody's bank account is automatically deducted each month until they opt out.

In islam, nothing is voluntarily, including belief. Outside of Singapore, moslems are persecuted or jail if they want to opt out of islam. Involuntary faith in islam has never been taken as haram.

 

[Loofydralb]

On the contrary, I've shown you enough examples of moslems corrupting their own quran in modern times, and then lying about it to claim that their quran was never changed.

Dishonesty is truly a pillar of islam.



It's your own moslem scriptures. If your own mohammedan scriptures are riddled with inaccuracies, it isn't my problem to sort it out for you to.




Ah yes. He has a reputation for a bad temper and beating up women, including your fake prophet's daughter. He's your idea of a good moslem?

Well here we are at this point in time, every muslim will reject and deny there is an idol nor do we worship one.

Can you say the same for your church? You can't even deny you have idols in your church.

 

[JohnTan]

Well here we are at this point in time, every muslim will reject and deny there is an idol nor do we worship one.

You don't speak for every moslem even if you like to talk as though you do.

Can you say the same for your church? You can't even deny you have idols in your church.

My church doesn't have any idols. We don't kiss or bow before any figurine, unlike mohammedans like you do everyday.

 

[Loofydralb]

You don't speak for every moslem even if you like to talk as though you do.

Go ahead and ask every Muslim

My church doesn't have any idols. We don't kiss or bow before any figurine, unlike mohammedans like you do everyday.

Those must be cartoon characters.

You can't even speak the truth about your religion. Sad.

 

[JohnTan]

Go ahead and ask every Muslim


Those must be cartoon characters.

You can't even speak the truth about your religion. Sad.

View attachment 185301View attachment 185302

Those are not pictures of my church. Sad that you need to resort to using photos from overseas to masquerade as my church.

In contrast, this is literally what moslems do at the rock. It's obvious to all that moslems believe that the rock has magical powers. It's really idolatry as a pillar of islam.

 

[Loofydralb]

Those are not pictures of my church. Sad that you need to resort to using photos from overseas to masquerade as my church.

In contrast, this is literally what moslems do at the rock. It's obvious to all that moslems believe that the rock has magical powers. It's really idolatry as a pillar of islam.

Then tell us what church you go to. Or better still, show photos of what is in your church.
Till now you still cannot deny you worship idols, images, statues.
And to you Jesus is God. Holy Goh is God. The Father is God.
Deny the above or deny your are a polytheist.

 

[steffychun]

Die rather than Malay word.

 

[syed putra]

Die rather than Malay word.

You should get a malay bf.

 

[Hypocrite-The]

Go ahead and ask every Muslim


Those must be cartoon characters.

You can't even speak the truth about your religion. Sad.

View attachment 185301View attachment 185302

That means Catholics worship statues ? Like mudslimes worship the black stone?

 

[Hypocrite-The]

Those are not pictures of my church. Sad that you need to resort to using photos from overseas to masquerade as my church.

In contrast, this is literally what moslems do at the rock. It's obvious to all that moslems believe that the rock has magical powers. It's really idolatry as a pillar of islam.

The mudslimes are more obsessed with the stone than Catholics are with their statues

 

[syed putra]

The mudslimes are more obsessed with the stone than Catholics are with their statues

I couldn't find any relevance to the black stone other than it being remnants of meteorites in the dessert. It fell from the sky with bang. And when arabs found it, raised it to prominence.
Nothing mentioned in the Quran. Not even on the five daily rituals muslims perform today, nor about friday prayers.
I have this opinion that eventually mahomet lost the final battle to destroy mecca. Or he did win, but arabs did not fully understsnd the notion of no religion and resurrected something by copying christian snd jewish faith, and created a new religion. But that did not come immediately as the first few cities that fell to arab hands, no mosques were built.
And the first few mosques that were built, faces Petra.