Yes. Didn't I just address the issue?
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Opposition-bashing in "Opposition unity" forum
- Thread starter Darkcloud
- Start date
Yes. Didn't I just address the issue?
i will vote for opposition too. but WP is not a opposition in my view.
no. u talk about percentage and wat not.
doesn't matter what percentage WP low thia khiang meant to say. 51 or 60 percent. watever. as long as he had given the PAP passing grade, he's not a opposition. he's a traitor.
I have been asking, how do you connect giving a "passing grade" to a traitor?
Funny isn't it how when it comes to elections, the WP automatically sheds its skin from alternative party is now the opposition party.
Now some motherfucking dog is telling us that we should vote for WP while WP candidates like YSL will continue to vote for the PAP instead.
Pretty rich advice. This dog must have a very low opinion of the electorate.
when a opposition party leader publicly sucking up to ruling party PAP giving them passing grade, thats a treacherous act isnt it?
Dear Chap
Like some other well known individuals the context of that " passing grade " remark has to be understood. Firstly politics is never black or white, never pure and impure.
You are perfectly entitled to the view that anyone giving a passing grade to the PAP has not fulfilled the role of the opposition but to be fair you have to remember the second half of his statement whereby he condemned certain actions and policies of the PAP which resulted in his view a passing grade not a failure but nevertheless a STEP down from the A plus A plus the PAP grades itself.
Secondly for one whilst there may be people enough who want to give the PAP a failing grade, they will never represent the middle of the political spectrum, It is the difference between I hate the PAP and disagree with the PAP on everything they do including how LHL and LKY scratch their nose and their respective choice of tie and shirt color and the more middle of the road disagreements which run the gamut from well I like the PAP in some areas but disagree over others and I seek a balance between the two.
Ideological purity has never won votes in Singapore and more so in a GRC context if the aim remains to win enough to win a GRC. Chiam won with a moderate tone of opposition which he himself has alluded to and which LTK has followed. It collapsed with the SDP losing seats on the tail end of more aggressive policies,with the WP under JB showing better promise which alas was not fulfiled
JBJ has won on the strength of total unbending opposition but has not been able to convert it to any substantial parliamentary strength. In fact the highest seats in 1991 was won with the SDP( under chiam ) and LTK on a policy of moderate opposition and ground work.
Does unbending total opposition win the middle ground ? I have my doubts because the SDP has proven weak electorally. JBJ might have changed the equation but he has moved on and what remains is the need for both approaches to try and not just one.
Locke
Like some other well known individuals the context of that " passing grade " remark has to be understood. Firstly politics is never black or white, never pure and impure.
You are perfectly entitled to the view that anyone giving a passing grade to the PAP has not fulfilled the role of the opposition but to be fair you have to remember the second half of his statement whereby he condemned certain actions and policies of the PAP which resulted in his view a passing grade not a failure but nevertheless a STEP down from the A plus A plus the PAP grades itself.
Secondly for one whilst there may be people enough who want to give the PAP a failing grade, they will never represent the middle of the political spectrum, It is the difference between I hate the PAP and disagree with the PAP on everything they do including how LHL and LKY scratch their nose and their respective choice of tie and shirt color and the more middle of the road disagreements which run the gamut from well I like the PAP in some areas but disagree over others and I seek a balance between the two.
Ideological purity has never won votes in Singapore and more so in a GRC context if the aim remains to win enough to win a GRC. Chiam won with a moderate tone of opposition which he himself has alluded to and which LTK has followed. It collapsed with the SDP losing seats on the tail end of more aggressive policies,with the WP under JB showing better promise which alas was not fulfiled
JBJ has won on the strength of total unbending opposition but has not been able to convert it to any substantial parliamentary strength. In fact the highest seats in 1991 was won with the SDP( under chiam ) and LTK on a policy of moderate opposition and ground work.
Does unbending total opposition win the middle ground ? I have my doubts because the SDP has proven weak electorally. JBJ might have changed the equation but he has moved on and what remains is the need for both approaches to try and not just one.
Locke
Labelling seems to be all a category of party supporters can do.
Unless there is any evidence that all WP candidates voted for the PAP. But there is evidence that one (not from WP) did a favour to the PAP in trying to oust 2 secretary-generals, succeeding once.
Unless there is any evidence that all WP candidates voted for the PAP. But there is evidence that one (not from WP) did a favour to the PAP in trying to oust 2 secretary-generals, succeeding once.
Still doesn't make sense to me. I think LTK was asked during an interview about what he thought was the governance of the PAP. Every politician who knows the game would start by saying good things then elaborate on what they can improve. I have seen countless interviews, including one by Lien Chan on Chen Shui-bian. Nothing is different.
I can't speak for everyone but if I do not fail the PAP in overall score, I don't see why I have an issue with anyone saying that the PAP passes.
I brought in % because if you are saying that 51% is more different from 49% than 99%, then I am not sure if you went through exams.
I could issue another example - is saying that the PAP got one thing right "sucking up" to the PAP? After all, this comes from someone saying that he is "anti-PAP".
I guess I could say that it doesn't matter whether it is one thing right or many things right, that is sucking up to PAP.
I guess I could say that it doesn't matter whether it is one thing right or many things right, that is sucking up to PAP.
so, what did chiam and low achieve for the pass few GE? they got two seats in the parliament. thats the 'success story' of 'moderate tone of the opposition'? whats there to harp about? i don't see it as the path and way to go for the opposition. if it is, the result would not be just 2 seats.
no need to come up with all kind of excuses for low. he had open up his mind to the world.
and also, besides this 'passing grade' comment, there's also his comment about WP cant form the govt in the next 10-20 years. also, YSL still hang around in the WP. etc etc.
all in all, just show WP is not serious to be opposition. shows that WP is just PAP sidekick.
Dear Chap
And fierce and beautiful opposition has lost the opposition seats and votes, 1991, and 2001, Neither has won to make an impact but suffice it to say my view is that SG is big enough for both approaches and if either one wins than SG opposition wins overall.
Locke
And fierce and beautiful opposition has lost the opposition seats and votes, 1991, and 2001, Neither has won to make an impact but suffice it to say my view is that SG is big enough for both approaches and if either one wins than SG opposition wins overall.
Locke
I think that is an unfair singling out, plus not telling the truth. Under Chiam, the party won 3 seats, not 1. JBJ's WP won 2 seats. Whatever the methods, all other opposition leaders have yet to beat this.
Of course, I don't have a solution or proclaim my methods to be right. I can only say that the formula for winning more seats is more obscure and involve more factors that just being "moderate" or not.
I think you are the one finding excuses. Why not NSP or SPP but maybe the potential of the WP is threatening some people.
the formula is to win the heart of the people. could the WP or any other opposition win by walking close to the PAP? we shall see.
because WP has made too many weird shit antics recently. YSL is one shinning example. did he get reprimanded? no, he's still in the CEC. shows the attitude of the WP.
How do you define "people"? What about those who think that English should be first language and night life should stop at 10 p.m.?
The people who voted PAP or WP are "non-people" to you then, yes? Come on, don't be like some politicians who disguise their own opinions and agenda as "people's" wishes. Your criteria, say it's yours. Your vote, cast it yourself. You're entitled to your voice and your vote anyway.
I still don't think you have proven anything to me. Going further would only make me criticize the SDP or other opposition in deeper detail which I try to avoid.
I believe I said last time that YSL was silly to reveal his vote, same as I will say that pro-opposition people who criticize any opposition publicly and cause it to lose more votes to the PAP than the single vote that YSL casted, are not better.
WP has its flaws, no different from the PAP or the SDP, but I believe more parties should have a space. That's it.
I believe I said last time that YSL was silly to reveal his vote, same as I will say that pro-opposition people who criticize any opposition publicly and cause it to lose more votes to the PAP than the single vote that YSL casted, are not better.
WP has its flaws, no different from the PAP or the SDP, but I believe more parties should have a space. That's it.
In the wise words of one - "a very low opinion of the electorate".
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