Oppo parties Boycotting NCMP post next GE a right move !

[pocoyo]

What do NMP and NCMP stands for?

Not really an MP??

Not Considered a real MP? LOL!

NMP - NahPeh MP

NCMP - NahPeh CheeBye MP

 

[scroobal]

Thanks Bro, I now understand where you are coming from. And you have a valid point. Also thanks for being patient with me and my rather abrasive style.

I have always pondered if the gamble is worth it. Your point about only contesting single wards and deliberately boycotting GRC does carry weight.

There is also the issue of killing opposition enthusiasm by restricting the number of contest especially when the opposition are not keen to have 3 or more cornered fights. Quite hard to fathom only 12 people standing against the PAP.

I suspect that a better approach is to fight the all the single wards but have sort of contest in some GRCs.

People like GMS have politics in their blood and a keen to make a huge dent in the PAP armour. There are 2 close fights in recent years - Eunos and Cheng San. Really close indeed that they gerrymandered it to Kingdom come.

Dear Fivestsars, Scroobal, and All Senior Samsters,

I'm also Goh Meng Seng supporter and would-be NSP voter, especially if he contests in Tampines GRC, (but seriously I would prefer him to contest in a single-ward seat as his chances of winning are much higher).

Now, let's get to the point. The NCMP scheme serves the PAP very well in many ways, one of which is to target STRONG Opposition candidates like maybe Kenneth Jeya, and NOT weak candiates who could easily lose their deposits anyway. Take for example, if KJ decides to contest in a single ward seat of Nee Soon Central which is helmed by a non-Minister MP of 67 yrs old.
Obviously, if I were a resident of Nee Soon Central, I would fancy KJ's chances of beating Ong Ah Heng. BUT the PAP people are bound to tell the residents that they should continue to vote PAP to run the town council efficiently, and KJ, being a capable man, can still enter Parliament as NCMP. This NCMP ruse would serve to divert votes from KJ to the PAP , which means that PAP would be able to score a narrow victory over KJ on election day.

THAT IS WHY ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES MUST SEND A STRONG SIGNAL TO SINGAPOREANS THAT AS LONG AS THE OPPOSITION CANDIDATES DO NOT WIN IN A FIRST-PAST-THE POST SYSTEM (AND I DON'T CARE IF IT DOES NOT HAPPEN IN THE NEXT 20 YEARS), THERE WILL BE NO NCMPs IN PARLIAMENT.

LIKEWISE, THE OPPOSTION MUST ALSO BOYCOTT ALL GRC CONTESTS IF NOT ON PRINCIPLE'S GROUND, THEN IT MUST BE FOR THE SAKE OF OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS. Scroobal, pls take note I'm not asking for complete boycott of GE. Sure, the USA and other European powers can't be bothered with S'pore's lack of democracy as long as the PAP gives them what they want. BUT what I'm targetting at are the Sinkapore voters who would,hopefully, clamour for MORE single-ward seats to be made available in future General elections. Now we only have 12 single seats for the upcoming GE. Imagine if our Opposition decided to do a boycott of all GRCs, the pressure will deifinitely bear on the PAP to create more single seats because LKY's pride in Singapore as a first-world country would be badly hurt in the eyes of the world.

 

[elephanto]

NCMP. This NCMP ruse would serve to divert votes from KJ to the PAP , which means that PAP would be able to score a narrow victory over KJ on election day.
......LIKEWISE, THE OPPOSTION MUST ALSO BOYCOTT ALL GRC CONTESTS IF NOT ON PRINCIPLE'S GROUND, THEN IT MUST BE FOR THE SAKE OF OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS.

When you talk like this instead of arguing to death the importance of opposition candidates holding grassroot activites, I cannot help but appreciate the points you are making.

Yes, if not even one Opposition candidate is elected, NCMP should not be accepted to create illusion of having Opposition in Parliament.

Your second point, difficult to achieve in reality with repercussions of multi-corner fight amongst opposition candidates keen to stand, would be a slap in the face of PM Lee - a boycott of this scale would be an international embarrassment to PAP.

 

[Perspective]

Dear Fivestsars, Scroobal, and All Senior Samsters,

I'm also Goh Meng Seng supporter and would-be NSP voter, especially if he contests in Tampines GRC, (but seriously I would prefer him to contest in a single-ward seat as his chances of winning are much higher).

Put up the GMS avatar if you mean what you say.

 

[fivestars]

Dear Fivestsars, Scroobal, and All Senior Samsters,

I'm also Goh Meng Seng supporter and would-be NSP voter, especially if he contests in Tampines GRC, (but seriously I would prefer him to contest in a single-ward seat as his chances of winning are much higher).

.

Thank you for your idea

1) If contest in Joo Chiat or any single ward in East should be not a problem because, he is the chairman of East Branch.

2) I believe the GE Chairman Mr Tan Chee Kiang will support him in the CEC meeting too.

3) NSP and WP, The GE Alliance shall agreed too. They will meeting (Chinese Meeting) with Mr Low in WP office before GE.

4) The Opposition association for the GE shall agreed too. Normally before GE, they will have a meeting in PKMS. (Singapore UMNO)

But I never hear that Goh Meng Seng want to down grade to contest single ward. GRCs is the Post 65 Singaporean as a challenge to down PAP not for old uncle like Chiam See Tong. Sorry to say that.

 

[sampierre]

There is also the issue of killing opposition enthusiasm by restricting the number of contest especially when the opposition are not keen to have 3 or more cornered fights. Quite hard to fathom only 12 people standing against the PAP. I suspect that a better approach is to fight the all the single wards but have sort of contest in some GRCs. Yes, I know it's very very tough for ALL the Oppostion parties to get together and agree to a total GRC boycott of the elections. I am merely talking about an "IDEAL" scenario. For Oppostion supporters who love to see GRC fights, don't worry, GRC boycott will not happen.

People like GMS have politics in their blood and a keen to make a huge dent in the PAP armour. There are 2 close fights in recent years - Eunos and Cheng San. Really close indeed that they gerrymandered it to Kingdom come.
Seriously, the Eunos contest in 1988 was the CLOSEST on record and it's my belief that the PAP has learned a lesson from this episode that they strengthened the GRC system to their advantage --- by 1) putting at least a full Cabinet Minister in charge of every GRC, 2) expanding the size of the GRC from 3 to at least 5, and 3) resorting to gerrymandering. As I mentioned before, the average voter living in a GRC is highly unlikely to vote out his incumbent Minister in favour of an Opposition team of unknown quality.
Sorry,I don't consider the results of Cheng San & Aljunied as particularly close fights. My personal guess for this upcoming GE, the best result for an Opposition team in a GRC contest would be around 45%.

 

[sampierre]

But I never hear that Goh Meng Seng want to down grade to contest single ward. GRCs is the Post 65 Singaporean as a challenge to down PAP not for old uncle like Chiam See Tong. Sorry to say that.

Hullo, WHY do u consider contesting in single wards as a downgrade???
On the contrary, GMS as the LEADER of NSP should go for single-ward seats so that his chances of winning are far higher. Nothing to do with post-65 Sinkies or old uncles!

 

[sampierre]

When you talk like this instead of arguing to death the importance of opposition candidates holding grassroot activites, I cannot help but appreciate the points you are making.

Yes, if not even one Opposition candidate is elected, NCMP should not be accepted to create illusion of having Opposition in Parliament.

Dear elephanto,

Rejecting NCMP scheme/boycotting GRC contests and working hard at grassroots level are 2 different issues altogether. If you chose to contest in a GRC or a single ward, you MUST make a serious effort to do something for the residents. Just merely making grandiose speeches at election time or issuing challenges to Mahboro Tan to TV debates are NOT good enough to win votes nowadays. Remember, all winning candidates MUST be able to run a town council efficiently. In the good old days of 1988 or before, if you have the gift of the gab like Francis Seow or Lim Chin Siong, you could easily beat a weak PAP candidate. Not anymore, my friend.
As for GMS himself, I think it's better for him to do more and talk less, especially he stumbled badly in the recent TV discussion. Do you guys honestly think that Maboro Tan is afraid of GMS after what had happened on TV??

 

[jw5]

Rejecting NCMP scheme/boycotting GRC contests and working hard at grassroots level are 2 different issues altogether. If you chose to contest in a GRC or a single ward, you MUST make a serious effort to do something for the residents. Just merely making grandiose speeches at election time or issuing challenges to Mahboro Tan to TV debates are NOT good enough to win votes nowadays. Remember, all winning candidates MUST be able to run a town council efficiently. In the good old days of 1988 or before, if you have the gift of the gab like Francis Seow or Lim Chin Siong, you could easily beat a weak PAP candidate. Not anymore, my friend.
As for GMS himself, I think it's better for him to do more and talk less, especially he stumbled badly in the recent TV discussion. Do you guys honestly think that Maboro Tan is afraid of GMS after what had happened on TV??

What do you expect the opposition candidate to do for the residents before he is elected?
Previously, weren't you the one who said that GMS should donate the proceeds from any potential sale of his flat to the Tampines residents? We asked you whether the current mps and ministars should also donate their salaries but you didn't answer. So can we have your answer now?

Haven't we also told you before that the opposition candidate can only tell the residents what he willl do if elected? And if he gets elected and fails to keep his promises, that they will vote him out the next time?

Seriously, what do you expect the opposition candidates to do now in their personal capacity? They are not public officers, they have no official job or standing in the constituency, are you expecting them to donate their personal funds or offer them free services?

 

[fivestars]

Hullo, WHY do u consider contesting in single wards as a downgrade???
On the contrary, GMS as the LEADER of NSP should go for single-ward seats so that his chances of winning are far higher. Nothing to do with post-65 Sinkies or old uncles!

No Point to win SMC. The Town Council need a lot of maintenance fee. Unless you are very rich to help the poor Singaporean in your town. You need to employed more repairman to repair their house by your own money or party welfare fund. You cannot make do not know like PAP MP because you are opposition MP like NSP or WP. You should set a good example for your party members if no, you are not a good leader.

SMC had a lot of financial assistant group that need to vote PAP by default. PAP had put on more money to RC and CC activities in SMC. The people who spend PAP Money for Art, Culture, Sport and other activities had to vote for PAP by default too.

PAP had confident that the majority voters in the few SMC block are voting to PAP. That is why PAP selected the block as SMC.

It is very sad to see past election that Sin Kek Tong and Dr Chee Soon Juan lose in SMC that is not represent majority Singaporean vote.

In the same time GRC that similar to SMC also had same problem like old estate in Jalan Besar, Toa Payoh, Taman Jurong/Taman Boon Lay/Jurong East, Ang Mo Kio, Bedok and other old estate that built before 1989.

 

[fivestars]

Unless new estate that built after 1989. The new SMC had not been contested more that 2 general election. All party leader; Chairman and Secretary General shall consider to contest SMC. The other CEC members also shall give out to contest in GRC.

 

[fivestars]

Unless new estate that built after 1989. The new SMC had not been contested more than 2 general election. All party leader; Chairman and Secretary General shall consider to contest SMC. The other CEC members also shall not give out to contest in GRC.

 

[sampierre]

[QUOTE=fivestars;458668]No Point to win SMC. The Town Council need a lot of maintenance fee. Unless you are very rich to help the poor Singaporean in your town. You need to employed more repairman to repair their house by your own money or party welfare fund. You cannot make do not know like PAP MP because you are opposition MP like NSP or WP. You should set a good example for your party members if no, you are not a good leader.

SMC had a lot of financial assistant group that need to vote PAP by default. PAP had put on more money to RC and CC activities in SMC. The people who spend PAP Money for Art, Culture, Sport and other activities had to vote for PAP by default too.

PAP had confident that the majority voters in the few SMC block are voting to PAP. That is why PAP selected the block as SMC.

It is very sad to see past election that Sin Kek Tong and Dr Chee Soon Juan lose in SMC that is not represent majority Singaporean vote.

In the same time GRC that similar to SMC also had same problem like old estate in Jalan Besar, Toa Payoh, Taman Jurong/Taman Boon Lay/Jurong East, Ang Mo Kio, Bedok and other old estate that built before 1989.[/QUOTE]


Fivestars, you are very INFANTILE in your political analysis. I seriously think you've been totally MISLED by the PAP . Sometimes, from reading your silly postings, I even think you are a PAP runner masquerading as an Opposition member.
Do you consider Choa Chu Kang, Yio Chu Kang, Joo Chiat and Nee Soon Ctrl as old, run-down housing estates that need constant repair & maintenance?? By using of your silly logic, the PAP should therefore abolish ALL single wards and instead opt for GRCs-only elections and NSP would then be very happy to contest under such circumstances-- because NSP can do better in GRCs than in single wards ??? LOL!!

 

[sampierre]

What do you expect the opposition candidate to do for the residents before he is elected?
Previously, weren't you the one who said that GMS should donate the proceeds from any potential sale of his flat to the Tampines residents? We asked you whether the current mps and ministars should also donate their salaries but you didn't answer. So can we have your answer now?

Hullo, when did I ask GMS to donate his HDB proceeds to Tampines residents?? I said he can consider using his proceeds to help organise grassroots activities for the residents!! But even if GMS were to use his HDB proceeds to set up a charity fund for needy Tampines residents, what's wrong with it?? Residents will definitely be IMPRESSED by GMS' kind gesture and GMS may win more votes as a result. REMEMBER, THIS IS ALL ABOUT WINNING THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THE VOTERS! Why should we bother about what Mahboro Tan does to his million-dollar salary??
Haven't we also told you before that the opposition candidate can only tell the residents what he willl do if elected? And if he gets elected and fails to keep his promises, that they will vote him out the next time?

Seriously, what do you expect the opposition candidates to do now in their personal capacity? They are not public officers, they have no official job or standing in the constituency, are you expecting them to donate their personal funds or offer them free services?

Friend, Kindly refer to my previous exchanges with Goh Meng Seng & Elephanto on this issue of grassroot activiteis. thanks.

 

[scroobal]

Bro, you are too idealistic and you seem to struggle reconciling the concepts and he logic behind it.

1) Town Councils by MPs were introduced by the PAP as an albatross around the neck of opposition candidates to impede their chances. Simple minded people will think that an opposition candidate might not have the means and resources to handle it. Its was never part of the westminster or democratic model. You obviously think that its MPs job to run town councils. MPs job is to represent the people in parliament.

2) Your version and your comments about supporting opposition is exactly what the PAP is looking for - judge opposition candidates by PAP standards. As you know PAP's presence at grassroots level begins with a young child attending PAP kindergarten and the whole neighbourhood is theirs from NTUC taxis to Supermarkets. They have opened up in void facilities that benefit their cause.

3) You spend more time condemning, criticising GMS with very little on PAP than you have in encouring viable opposition support. I can't recall a single instance of support or encouragement. To make it worse, your point about achieving significant involvement in grassroots first is not even tenable.

4) You have to bear in mind that we have the highest deposit in the world to partake in elections. It only cost about 500 pounds in UK and rest of the world. It therefore is the world's most expensive endeavour in comparative sense.

Dear elephanto,

If you chose to contest in a GRC or a single ward, you MUST make a serious effort to do something for the residents. Just merely making grandiose speeches at election time or issuing challenges to Mahboro Tan to TV debates are NOT good enough to win votes nowadays. Remember, all winning candidates MUST be able to run a town council efficiently.

 

[Ramseth]

Scroobal, basically, all serious opposition should boycott election. It's also from the gift and at the behest of PAP. They have >2/3 majority and could abolish election constitutionally. Accepting PAP ED boundary is also unacceptable, in order to be serious. If PAP don't repent and relinquish power voluntarily, boycott everything.

 

[sampierre]

Bro, you are too idealistic and you seem to struggle reconciling the concepts and he logic behind it.

1) Town Councils by MPs were introduced by the PAP as an albatross around the neck of opposition candidates to impede their chances. Simple minded people will think that an opposition candidate might not have the means and resources to handle it. Its was never part of the westminster or democratic model. You obviously think that its MPs job to run town councils. MPs job is to represent the people in parliament.
Moderator, if you read my earlier postings, I did say that the introductions of the NCMP scheme, GRC concept and having MPs to run town councils were meant to STRENGTHEN the chances of the PAP in winning elections. That's why in the good old days of the 60s" up till 1988, if you'were a respectable opposition candidate with a gift of the gab like Francis Seow , you could easily beat a weak PAP candidate in a one-on-one contest. OF COURSE I KNOW THAT UNDER THE WESTMINSTER MODEL, AN MP IS NOT SUPPOSED TO RUN A TOWN COUNCIL!

2) Your version and your comments about supporting opposition is exactly what the PAP is looking for - judge opposition candidates by PAP standards. As you know PAP's presence at grassroots level begins with a young child attending PAP kindergarten and the whole neighbourhood is theirs from NTUC taxis to Supermarkets. They have opened up in void facilities that benefit their cause.
Wrong again. This is certainly NOT my version. I'm merely seeing things from an average HDB resident's point of view which has been corrupted by the PAP via constant print & TV/radio media bombardment. Unless Opposition candidates can be VERY CHARISMATIC AND DAMN CONVINCING enough to make residents see that the most important job of an MP is to speak up and defend Sinkies' rights in Parliament, I am afraid every serious opposition candidate must also spend time on grassroot activities to bond with the residents.
3) You spend more time condemning, criticising GMS with very little on PAP than you have in encouring viable opposition support. I can't recall a single instance of support or encouragement. To make it worse, your point about achieving significant involvement in grassroots first is not even tenable.
True, I did criticise GMS, only BECAUSE I think he's spending too much time talking, talking, and talking and he doesn't even have the gift of the gab to begin with! He should be more like Chiam See Tong who was already spending considrable time to cultivate support from Potong Pasir residents before 1984 elections.
4) You have to bear in mind that we have the highest deposit in the world to partake in elections. It only cost about 500 pounds in UK and rest of the world. It therefore is the world's most expensive endeavour in comparative sense.

 

[fivestars]

Fivestars, you are very INFANTILE in your political analysis. I seriously think you've been totally MISLED by the PAP . Sometimes, from reading your silly postings, I even think you are a PAP runner masquerading as an Opposition member.
Do you consider Choa Chu Kang, Yio Chu Kang, Joo Chiat and Nee Soon Ctrl as old, run-down housing estates that need constant repair & maintenance?? By using of your silly logic, the PAP should therefore abolish ALL single wards and instead opt for GRCs-only elections and NSP would then be very happy to contest under such circumstances-- because NSP can do better in GRCs than in single wards ??? LOL!!

I even think you are a PAP runner masquerading as an Opposition member

My wife is not SM Goh Chok Tong wife relative. Do not worry I am PAP agent.

Do you consider Choa Chu Kang, Yio Chu Kang, Joo Chiat and Nee Soon Ctrl as old, run-down housing estates that need constant repair & maintenance?

Sorry, I had not been visiting them for next GE yet. I am saying 2006 GE situation.

NSP can do better in GRCs than in single wards?

This my personal view on past election, not the NSP CEC. But I cannot accept our Post 65 lose ball to contest GRC. I hate to see chicken heart contesters want to contest only in SMC. Only old man with age above 65 years old is suitable to contest in SMC. A youngster shall have a team spirit and able to accept team members view in a GRC contest. Why must vote a person who unable share with party members and select only SMC to contest. A true leader is come form GRC.

 

[fivestars]

Fivestars, you are very INFANTILE in your political analysis. I seriously think you've been totally MISLED by the PAP . Sometimes, from reading your silly postings, I even think you are a PAP runner masquerading as an Opposition member.
Do you consider Choa Chu Kang, Yio Chu Kang, Joo Chiat and Nee Soon Ctrl as old, run-down housing estates that need constant repair & maintenance?? By using of your silly logic, the PAP should therefore abolish ALL single wards and instead opt for GRCs-only elections and NSP would then be very happy to contest under such circumstances-- because NSP can do better in GRCs than in single wards ??? LOL!!

I even think you are a PAP runner masquerading as an Opposition member

My wife is not SM Goh Chok Tong wife relative. Do not worry I am a PAP agent.

Do you consider Choa Chu Kang, Yio Chu Kang, Joo Chiat and Nee Soon Ctrl as old, run-down housing estates that need constant repair & maintenance?

Sorry, I had not been visiting them for next GE yet. I am saying 2006 GE situation.

NSP can do better in GRCs than in single wards?

This my personal view on past election, not the NSP CEC. But I cannot accept our Post 65 lose ball to contest GRC. I hate to see chicken heart contesters want to contest only in SMC. Only old man with age above 65 years old is suitable to contest in SMC. A youngster shall have a team spirit and able to accept team members view in a GRC contest. Why must vote a person who unable to share with party members and select only SMC to contest. A true leader is come form GRC.

 

[kingrant]

Having read yr replies in red, I believe the best thing you shld do is to start changing the mindset and perception of the ordinary heartlander, so that social justice and political equality are safeguarded. It is counterproductive and indeed subversive to the Opp cause if you keep harping on PAP's yardsticks to judge upcoming fledgling Opp candidates who are trying their best to fight an unfairly handicapped system.

Bro, you are too idealistic and you seem to struggle reconciling the concepts and he logic behind it.

1) Town Councils by MPs were introduced by the PAP as an albatross around the neck of opposition candidates to impede their chances. Simple minded people will think that an opposition candidate might not have the means and resources to handle it. Its was never part of the westminster or democratic model. You obviously think that its MPs job to run town councils. MPs job is to represent the people in parliament.
Moderator, if you read my earlier postings, I did say that the introductions of the NCMP scheme, GRC concept and having MPs to run town councils were meant to STRENGTHEN the chances of the PAP in winning elections. That's why in the good old days of the 60s" up till 1988, if you'were a respectable opposition candidate with a gift of the gab like Francis Seow , you could easily beat a weak PAP candidate in a one-on-one contest. OF COURSE I KNOW THAT UNDER THE WESTMINSTER MODEL, AN MP IS NOT SUPPOSED TO RUN A TOWN COUNCIL!

2) Your version and your comments about supporting opposition is exactly what the PAP is looking for - judge opposition candidates by PAP standards. As you know PAP's presence at grassroots level begins with a young child attending PAP kindergarten and the whole neighbourhood is theirs from NTUC taxis to Supermarkets. They have opened up in void facilities that benefit their cause.
Wrong again. This is certainly NOT my version. I'm merely seeing things from an average HDB resident's point of view which has been corrupted by the PAP via constant print & TV/radio media bombardment. Unless Opposition candidates can be VERY CHARISMATIC AND DAMN CONVINCING enough to make residents see that the most important job of an MP is to speak up and defend Sinkies' rights in Parliament, I am afraid every serious opposition candidate must also spend time on grassroot activities to bond with the residents.
3) You spend more time condemning, criticising GMS with very little on PAP than you have in encouring viable opposition support. I can't recall a single instance of support or encouragement. To make it worse, your point about achieving significant involvement in grassroots first is not even tenable.
True, I did criticise GMS, only BECAUSE I think he's spending too much time talking, talking, and talking and he doesn't even have the gift of the gab to begin with! He should be more like Chiam See Tong who was already spending considrable time to cultivate support from Potong Pasir residents before 1984 elections.
4) You have to bear in mind that we have the highest deposit in the world to partake in elections. It only cost about 500 pounds in UK and rest of the world. It therefore is the world's most expensive endeavour in comparative sense.