Oppo parties Boycotting NCMP post next GE a right move !

[jw5]

I just have this to say to sampierre:- Had not Syvia Lim's performance as an NCMP in Parliament not enhanced her stature & made more Singaporeans aware of her credibility ? Come next GE, is her chances of being elected higher than if in between GE2006 & the next GE, the people are deprived of her many outstanding House speeches & NOT made aware of how much better if she can vote in supply & constitutional bills ? In politics, you exploit that which can give you leverage .... to be an absolutist, embrace religion.

Agree with your point about Sylvia.
I think that she has gained credibility among the "middle ground" voters.
If she stands in a single seat ward against a "non heavyweight", her chances of being elected are quite high. She may even lead a GRC to victory, if the opposition can avoid any internal conflicts or scandals and focus on reaching the hearts and minds of the ordinary singaporeans.

 

[jw5]

My personal opinion is, any candidate qualifying for NCMP should take up first term, to gain exposure and experience in Parliament, but never a second term if loses again. That's my personal opinion, nothing to do with any party stand.

As for the likes of CST and LTK, they shouldn't take up NCMP if they lose. They've been voted MP, and if they lose, it not only means an election defeat but more significantly, it means MP being voted out; the message is clear.

People with longer memories may recall and question me about Lee Siew Choh and J.B. Jeyaretnam taking up NCMP seats after having been MPs themselves. My answer is this. I disagreed with them. They should have used it to groom the youngers.

Agree with your first para but with a proviso.
If he improves on his first time, I think he should take the NCMP seat. For example, if he won 45% the first time and 48% the second. But if he loses the third time even if he gets 49% of the votes, he should not accept it.

Agree with your second para about LTK and CST. I don't think either of them will accept an NCMP seat either.

Regarding your third para about JBJ and LSC, did they have the option to offer the seat to one of their party members or did they have to take the seat themselves? What about the situation now? Tks for the advice.

 

[Queen Seok Duk]

Come next GE, is her chances of being elected higher than if in between GE2006 & the next GE, the people are deprived of her many outstanding House speeches & NOT made aware of how much better if she can vote in supply & constitutional bills ?

Chances better ? We'll have to wait until the outcome of the next GE to find out.

In the meantime, Steve Chia didn't fare better in the subsequent GE after he became NCMP.

 

[Ramseth]

repeat...delete

 

[Ramseth]

Regarding your third para about JBJ and LSC, did they have the option to offer the seat to one of their party members or did they have to take the seat themselves? What about the situation now? Tks for the advice.

Yes, they do have the options within the party. For example, it was Francis Seow and Tang Liang Hong who were first choices for the NCMP seats. They abandoned. In any case, I'm not blaming Lee Siew Choh or J.B. Jeyaretnam totally. There were many senior cadres who insisted they take up the seats, viewing them as more powerful voices. I personally viewed that as short-sightedness, but that's just my personal opinion.

 

[elephanto]

Chances better ? We'll have to wait until the outcome of the next GE to find out.

In the meantime, Steve Chia didn't fare better in the subsequent GE after he became NCMP.

Steve Chia ? In squeaky clean Singapore, we all know spin or no spin from MSM, his less-than-squeaky-clean private life contributed to minus points against him in the eyes of the electorate, no ?

 

[Sideswipe]

If we had 9 NCMP in 1997 GE

Chee Soon Juan would be a NCMP then. I wonder if he could accept? He would relish the debates with PAP in Parliament but SDP extremist stance meant he is as likely to reject too.

 

[Queen Seok Duk]

If we had 9 NCMP in 1997 GE

Chee Soon Juan would be a NCMP then. I wonder if he could accept? He would relish the debates with PAP in Parliament but SDP extremist stance meant he is as likely to reject too.

Nothing is confirmed. I have asked this question many times, and SDP has never made a stand on this.

 

[hypocrite999]

Dear Frens,

many good points has been brought up with regards to opposition parties taking up NCMP positions. Now for my 2 cents worth. I feel that if the opposition should take up the seats as offered as to give the forgotten people a voice in parliament.

By the opposition boycotting, how will they get a higher profile? JBJ and Lee Siew Cho did bring up many valid points as NCMPs and cause embaressment to PAP. This needs to continue. They will make things worse for Singaporeans.

The Singapore democracy is a sham, alternative voices has been locked out. And the cry for help by many has been ignored and even laughed at. Like MBT with his 'HDB are affordable', Lim Sia Suey in his 'up turn the down turn' etc.

If oppos dont take up the seats, we will be hearing more of this PAP nonsense and no headway for singaporeans will be made.

So oppos take up the seats, give a voice to the forgotten and further on down the track, more real seats will be won by the Opposition.

And Singapore democracy is a sham controlled by the PAP, Opposition cannot play by their rules.

 

[Perspective]

My personal opinion is, any candidate qualifying for NCMP should take up first term, to gain exposure and experience in Parliament, but never a second term if loses again. That's my personal opinion, nothing to do with any party stand.

As for the likes of CST and LTK, they shouldn't take up NCMP if they lose. They've been voted MP, and if they lose, it not only means an election defeat but more significantly, it means MP being voted out; the message is clear.

People with longer memories may recall and question me about Lee Siew Choh and J.B. Jeyaretnam taking up NCMP seats after having been MPs themselves. My answer is this. I disagreed with them. They should have used it to groom the youngers.

LSC and JBJ are different from LTK and CST. First, LSC and JBJ were not voted out of their seats. JBJ was disqualified and LSC switched parties and wards. Secondly, the time they were last elected (LSC 1959 and JBJ 1984) is a big gap with the NCMP.

And there's no younger person of quality in their team, excluding those whose butts were kicked out of Singapore.

 

[Perspective]

In the meantime, Steve Chia didn't fare better in the subsequent GE after he became NCMP.

He did. 34% up to 39%.

 

[Perspective]

Chee Soon Juan would be a NCMP then. I wonder if he could accept? He would relish the debates with PAP in Parliament but SDP extremist stance meant he is as likely to reject too.

I think SDP will accept the seat. Their "extremist" stands are non electoral. At the electoral front, they are walking the ground, fielding candidates and trying to win.

 

[Ramseth]

And there's no younger person of quality in their team, excluding those whose butts were kicked out of Singapore.

Hahaha!!! Yah!

 

[scroobal]

All those you were in Barisan Socialis will tell you it was tactical error that they never recovered from. Even a highly principled and very obstinate Lee Siew Choh agreed that it was a monumental mistake.

No matter what the circumstances, no ever boycott. That is what the PAP hopes and seeks. Object vehemently to the way that GE is handled, how Westminster model is misrepresented, cry out loud that democracy is a farce but never boycott.

Boycotting the polls is a child's tantrum. Naive and misconceived in any circumstances. We of all people should at least learn from the mistakes of the past.

The PAP knows that as long as they give preferential investment and tax treatments to the western world, provide submarine pens, naval and aviation facilities to the same, the West can be bothered if this country is a dictatorship or a democracy.

When JBJ won Anson, it was obvious to many that the old man took it personally. It hurt him badly. He thought he was invincible.

What do you comes from a boycott? - Old man breaking down and conceding concessions, the West coming in to rescue Singapore etc. Anything you do must have a possible or even a plausible end game. So far what do you think that can reasonably happen in boycott? I am sure we are all interested.

People like you, Scroobal, Elephanto, Goh Meng Seng et al keep on harping on Barisan Socialis' walkout of Parliament in 1965 and boycott of 1968 GE to justify your silly stand that the Oppostion should NEVER boycott GE.

 

[scroobal]

Agree with you. SDP may be wrong in tactics and strategy but this is something I am certain Chee will accept with both arms. The parliament after all is a forum and the best forum to take on the PAP. Whether you enter the forum with suit or slippers is immaterial. Just get in first and start chipping away. But one does it under protest.

NCMP at least can hold their head high as there are votes behind it albeit not the majority. An NCMP with 40% voters behind is quite telling. Not to be taken lightly.

This is not some silly birthday party that one can snub just because you got the invitation late.

I think SDP will accept the seat. Their "extremist" stands are non electoral. At the electoral front, they are walking the ground, fielding candidates and trying to win.

 

[jw5]

Agree with you. SDP may be wrong in tactics and strategy but this is something I am certain Chee will accept with both arms. The parliament after all is a forum and the best forum to take on the PAP. Whether you enter the forum with suit or slippers is immaterial. Just get in first and start chipping away. But one does it under protest.

NCMP at least can hold their head high as there are votes behind it albeit not the majority. An NCMP with 40% voters behind is quite telling. Not to be taken lightly.

This is not some silly birthday party that one can snub just because you got the invitation late.

Do NCMPs or NMPs get parliamentary priviledges?
I think it's material that you don't enter the forum with slippers. You don't attend a job interview wearing slippers. Comfort is one thing, but the voters also deserve some respect.

 

[Tiu Kwang Yew]

sinkapoor voters only know upgrading and pork money---product of PAP.

soory to say---most hopeless voters, not worth to fight for them.

these morons vote for PAP and hope oppo wins, only some give votes to oppo even they know oppo sure lose !

in sinkapore, soory to say that---people donch understand what is elections !

so the best is let these people have PAP forever, pay and pay forever.

donch worry when problem become so big, these moron voters sure go against PAP one day.....,good show ahead...

with only PAP yesmen and PAP fun people(NMP) in the parliament joking around, these voters will realise the debate is just wayang.

see the fun ---PAP MPs and PAP NMPs----wow ! Thats is fun !

 

[kingrant]

Haha..Don't take it too literally.

Do NCMPs or NMPs get parliamentary priviledges?
I think it's material that you don't enter the forum with slippers. You don't attend a job interview wearing slippers. Comfort is one thing, but the voters also deserve some respect.

 

[sampierre]

Yes, I understand PAP is telling voters do not need to vote for opposition because we had NCMP system. This will make us lose deposit and lose in General Election. That is why Mr Low and GSM reject NCMP to make sure voters vote them in.

I am Goh Meng Seng party member. I also support him but the problem is when we lose deposit, no one be NCMP. How?

So I am an opposition member for opposition party to fight for the post. This is so call politic. Two side of a coin. One call for war and the other one call for defend.

[/FONT]

Dear Fivestsars, Scroobal, and All Senior Samsters,

I'm also Goh Meng Seng supporter and would-be NSP voter, especially if he contests in Tampines GRC, (but seriously I would prefer him to contest in a single-ward seat as his chances of winning are much higher).

Now, let's get to the point. The NCMP scheme serves the PAP very well in many ways, one of which is to target STRONG Opposition candidates like maybe Kenneth Jeya, and NOT weak candiates who could easily lose their deposits anyway. Take for example, if KJ decides to contest in a single ward seat of Nee Soon Central which is helmed by a non-Minister MP of 67 yrs old.
Obviously, if I were a resident of Nee Soon Central, I would fancy KJ's chances of beating Ong Ah Heng. BUT the PAP people are bound to tell the residents that they should continue to vote PAP to run the town council efficiently, and KJ, being a capable man, can still enter Parliament as NCMP. This NCMP ruse would serve to divert votes from KJ to the PAP , which means that PAP would be able to score a narrow victory over KJ on election day.

THAT IS WHY ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES MUST SEND A STRONG SIGNAL TO SINGAPOREANS THAT AS LONG AS THE OPPOSITION CANDIDATES DO NOT WIN IN A FIRST-PAST-THE POST SYSTEM (AND I DON'T CARE IF IT DOES NOT HAPPEN IN THE NEXT 20 YEARS), THERE WILL BE NO NCMPs IN PARLIAMENT.

LIKEWISE, THE OPPOSTION MUST ALSO BOYCOTT ALL GRC CONTESTS IF NOT ON PRINCIPLE'S GROUND, THEN IT MUST BE FOR THE SAKE OF OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS. Scroobal, pls take note I'm not asking for complete boycott of GE. Sure, the USA and other European powers can't be bothered with S'pore's lack of democracy as long as the PAP gives them what they want. BUT what I'm targetting at are the Sinkapore voters who would,hopefully, clamour for MORE single-ward seats to be made available in future General elections. Now we only have 12 single seats for the upcoming GE. Imagine if our Opposition decided to do a boycott of all GRCs, the pressure will deifinitely bear on the PAP to create more single seats because LKY's pride in Singapore as a first-world country would be badly hurt in the eyes of the world.

 

[Sideswipe]

It come down to a matter of choice.
change the system from within - oppo winning a good number of seats to be in a strong position to demand for electoral reform or
change the system from outside - full or partial boycott of GE, Protests...

I do have a question
In "first past the post", seats won are not proportional to votes won.

what if the next GE, we see a few good oppo support in 3/4 GRCs gathering 46-48% of votes but the 2 oppo SMC are lost to PAP.
Because of the 3/4 GRCs good performance, nationwide votes of Oppo increase to 42% because but oppositions have zero seats in parliaments.
so our combined oppo has 42% of nationwide votes but zero seats.

How would we look at this result? Oppo have no support?, that already 42%! or we will start thinking wheater FPTP is the right electoral system for Singapore.