NSP Response to PM Lee's NDR speech

[scroobal]

You must think that I was suggesting that he make comments or remarks that are untrue or grey in nature. If you read my first post to him, I told him to drop anything that he is unsure of. The mention of parliamentary immunity suggest things that are defamatory or libellous in nature. I think we are both at the wrong end of the spectrum.

This poltical reality can of course change very quickly if he wins a GRC and he has Parlimentary immunity.

 

[scroobal]

My words might not have moved GMS or the NSP. But your comment below about being "bland" should scare the daylights out of him. This is one comment that I absolutely agree with you. It is indeed bland.

It is quite factual and bland which makes it safe to give to a msm editor.

 

[aurvandil]

You must think that I was suggesting that he make comments or remarks that are untrue or grey in nature. If you read my first post to him, I told him to drop anything that he is unsure of. The mention of parliamentary immunity suggest things that are defamatory or libellous in nature. I think we are both at the wrong end of the spectrum.

That is not what I meant. Recently the PAP has developed a very strange understanding of the English language. Note the recent objection to the word "burn" by a young blogger.

The point is that the PAP is looking to nitpick and find fault. Fiery emotive words are dangerous as they are easy to twist and misinterpret. Bland, factual words on the other hand are more difficult to twist.

At this point in time, it pays to be cautious. So far, the PAP has shown themselves to be quite tolerant and open. As noted by GMS, there were no election goodies and this election is shaping up to be a lot fairer than previous contests. We cannot and should not however discount the fact that the PAP will revert to form and deploy the dirty tactics of previous elections.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Scroobal & Thick Face,

I fully understand your grounds and points, especially on the PAP's deliberate occupation of the "opposition middle ground" right from the 80s. I am a keen observer of political development since I have political consciousness in the 80s.

It is true that opposition members who managed to get into parliament in the part wer those who could deliver fiery speeches. However there is a fundamental change in demographic and educational background for Singapore voters.

It is a battle of the middle ground but of course, it is up to us to determine where the median line is. It is true that at times we would feel that the performance of Lily Neo, Tan Cheng Bock and such PAP MPs are more like opposition's role and thus there seems not to have a need for Opposition MPs at all. It would lead to the conclusion that we need to redefine the role and public image of opposition members in parliament, one of fiery orator.

However, the key to success in electoral politics is to win the middle ground, not just those on both extremes. But we must bear in mind not to lose the support of the respective extremes while battle for the middle ground.

If we are to push towards more of rhetorical discourses or more sharpen tone, it may put off certain middle ground voters while earning applause from the die hard supporters. The reverse is true as well. Thus, this is the delicate balance that we need to look into and calibrate our messages to earn the support of both sides.

Whether we like it or not, at this moment, the PAP has generally occupied the middle ground, with certain profiles likes of Lily Neo. Avoiding the contest for the middle ground while retreating to the stage of the traditional base of support will not bring us forward. Demographic and education changes on the electorates has increased the demand on opposition to put up more substance on a moderate tone.

I am still seeking the middle path.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[LonewolfAlfa]

3. The latest drastic measures have caused unwarranted shocks to the whole system. Those who have based their purchases of HDB flats or private properties on the past policies will face great financial losses. The frequent policy changes will erode investor’s confidence in the government’s competency in dealing with such problems.

all the anti pappy people have to thank the pappy for listening to their grouses and creating this :mad

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I am still seeking the middle path.

Goh Meng Seng

Don't get me wrong. I felt your points on immigration were good. The only criticism I have for NSP's press statement is that the points on transportation were weak.

At some point u shld also question PM lee's leadership, at an appropriate juncture.

To seek the middle path, bear in mind that the PAP has the advantage there, by virtue of the fact it is the incumbent. To win back the advantage you must point out where the PAP has erred in no uncertain terms.

 

[Queen Seok Duk]

I am still seeking the middle path.

Goh Meng Seng

你該不會是‘鄉愿’吧？

 

[scroobal]

"Taking on the Minister Strategy" was a huge boost and it delivered an immediate response by no less than the old man who was clearly disturbed and shaken. It was a clear affront. You basically challenged the big guns.

Why the shift. Something is amiss.

Your good results under WP is partly because Sylvia gave Hen a bloody nose and Low held firm refusing to play to PAP's agenda. It showed the people that PAP is vulnerable.

Do I sense that the party members feels otherwise?

D

It is a battle of the middle ground but of course, it is up to us to determine where the median line is. ..............
I am still seeking the middle path.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

"Taking on the Minister Strategy" was a huge boost and it delivered an immediate response by no less than the old man who was clearly disturbed and shaken. It was a clear affront. You basically challenged the big guns.

Why the shift. Something is amiss.

Your good results under WP is partly because Sylvia gave Hen a bloody nose and Low held firm refusing to play to PAP's agenda. It showed the people that PAP is vulnerable.

Do I sense that the party members feels otherwise?

Dear Scroobal,

I have not changed tactic nor strategy. It is still Minister-Specific strategy.

But as old Chinese wisdom says, don't force the desperate dog to the corner. 狗急跳墙, 物极必反。

There are few things I am afraid of. Minister Mah or Minister Yaacob going for early retirement is one. Observe the body language of Minister Mah for the last press release. He no longer puts up his high defensive posture with that arrogance of insisting he is right. He just falls short of apologizing for his misjudgment earlier on.

The fact is, the Prime Minister has went into a lengthy explanation of what went wrong with the MRT system, pointing out all the jam points and put up concrete plans and budget for the improvement of the MRT system etc. He is obviously helping the transport minister to win votes by spending 5 to 10 minutes on that. But when it comes to housing, guess what? After mentioning a few points, he said MBT will announce all the details in a press conference later!

These are "danger signs" to me. I do not want to lose MBT, he is my BEST CAMPAIGNER!

As for Minister Yaacob, even worse... totally no mention of the flood problems as well as any further plans to address this problem!

In view of all these happenings, it is better to give MBT and Yaacob some breather for the time being. Else if they are knocked out even before the GE, I will have big headache in finding new ministers who deserved to voted out by the people.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

Ok, got you.

These are "danger signs" to me. I do not want to lose MBT, he is my BEST CAMPAIGNER!

As for Minister Yaacob, even worse... totally no mention of the flood problems as well as any further plans to address this problem!

In view of all these happenings, it is better to give MBT and Yaacob some breather for the time being. Else if they are knocked out even before the GE, I will have big headache in finding new ministers who deserved to voted out by the people.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

I don't see how, or why anyone should try to be a midpoint between LTK and CSJ because the two have different ideologies to begin with. A midpoint implies a continuum, and there is none. If you're referring to degree of aggressiveness as the benchmark, then LTK serves no purpose.

If GMS has said previously he wants to be some kind of midpoint, then he has to be corrected. He should be his own man, never mind what the others are doing.

I think there is a lot of positives in using LTK and Chiam as benchmarks because the populace are accustomed to these two. It breeds familiarity which is a good thing in SG politics.

Of course once voted in, give the PAPies hell much more than those two.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

The irony of the $60B to improve the MRT is that without the hundreds of thousands of FTs, our current MRT system is actually quit good and can be improved with more buses. Thanks to the PAPies and their FTs, we will need to spend $60B!

So, the PAPies import hundreds of thousands of FTs that will cost us $60B to improve our MRT to support these new FTs. These new FTs affect our healthcare system which is already in 3rd world status in terms of spending and availability.

 

[eatshitndie]

The irony of the $60B to improve the MRT is that without the hundreds of thousands of FTs, our current MRT system is actually quit good and can be improved with more buses. Thanks to the PAPies and their FTs, we will need to spend $60B!

So, the PAPies import hundreds of thousands of FTs that will cost us $60B to improve our MRT to support these new FTs. These new FTs affect our healthcare system which is already in 3rd world status in terms of spending and availability.

i hate to see political messages in this folder... with the exception of this one.

why? because it has economic and financial substance. there is opportunity cost in everything, including so called freebies. besides losing productivity by importing cheap labor, depressing the average wage, reducing average income (we're not talking per capita income here), decreasing purchasing power per consumer, discouraging productivity gains thru' better capital investment, automation and higher skills, demoralizing the work force as they age or pick up skills, marginalizing more experienced and older (thus more knowledgeable and productive) workers, encouraging a climate of complacency in industry (cheaper is better), constantly screwing and squeezing the supply chain, etc., there is the invisible cost of upgrading the overall infrastructure to support the importation of cheap 'temporal' labor and headcount which unwittingly morph into semi-permanent and permanent residents.

the business case for that additional infrastructural cost (such expense for so little long term gains) has no positive payback, unless... infrastructure and construction activity contributes to the queer, self cock-sucking formula of measuring kpi, performance, renumeration and rewards based upon gdp growth, which i suspect they are relying upon to masturbate themselves silly in the mirror. that opportunity cost could have reaped better rewards and returns if they are spent on uplifting the quality, creativity, skills and freedom of innovation of every precious individual already invested in the country.

moral of the story: it's better to have a few geniuses, inventors or entrepreuners who can create millions of jobs than a few million dumbfucks who scour the world and look for jobs.

 

[Perspective]

These are "danger signs" to me. I do not want to lose MBT, he is my BEST CAMPAIGNER!

Goh Meng Seng

Indeed, Mah, LHL and WKS are the longest serving politicians after LKY (1955), GCT (1976), Jaya and Lim BH (1980), Mah including the time he lost to Chiam in 1984. He belongs to the older half. So there is a risk.

However PAP has gone dry with aging ministers this generation, so the PAP might have to retain several, unlike the time they quickly got Goh KS, Toh CC, Ong PB and others to give way.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

moral of the story: it's better to have a few geniuses, inventors or entrepreuners who can create millions of jobs than a few million dumbfucks who scour the world and look for jobs.

I agree ... ... ... .

 

[jw5]

I think there is a lot of positives in using LTK and Chiam as benchmarks because the populace are accustomed to these two. It breeds familiarity which is a good thing in SG politics.

Of course once voted in, give the PAPies hell much more than those two.

That's what CSJ should have done.
Perhaps someone can now do what CSJ did not.

But I'm not sure why GMS is so concerned with Yaccob. Even if he continues, he may not be the anchor ministar in his GRC. They may get someone "beloved and respected" to be the anchor.

 

[aurvandil]

But I'm not sure why GMS is so concerned with Yaccob. Even if he continues, he may not be the anchor ministar in his GRC. They may get someone "beloved and respected" to be the anchor.

PAP only got a limited number of king cards.

If even full Minsiter like Yacob need someone to defend his GRC, then hard not to eventually lose ...

The basic principle if the PAP wants to maintain the current stranglehold is that if you are a full Minister, you should be strong enough to stand on your own against any Opposition challenge.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

But I'm not sure why GMS is so concerned with Yaccob. Even if he continues, he may not be the anchor ministar in his GRC. They may get someone "beloved and respected" to be the anchor.

Aljunied is the hottest spot and I think WP could even win Aljunied GRC without LTK standing there. This is based on the general vote swing of 5% caused by demographic changes and adding on another 3% to 5% of branding and candidate factor, WP could well win Aljunied if it is left to George Yeo team. Most likely, KBW will be asked to shift to Aljunied but I guess nobody in his right mind would agree to do that. Too high risk to lose.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[jw5]

Aljunied is the hottest spot and I think WP could even win Aljunied GRC without LTK standing there. This is based on the general vote swing of 5% caused by demographic changes and adding on another 3% to 5% of branding and candidate factor, WP could well win Aljunied if it is left to George Yeo team. Most likely, KBW will be asked to shift to Aljunied but I guess nobody in his right mind would agree to do that. Too high risk to lose.

Goh Meng Seng

I have been researching the pap candidates in some grcs:

Sembawang has Khaw and Shanmugan
Hong Kah has YCT (no longer ministar)
Jalan Besar has LBY (no longer ministar) and Yaccob
Aljunied has GY and Lim Hwee Hua
Jurong has LBH and Tharman
East Coast has Jayakumar and Raymond
Bishan has WKS and NEH
TP has LKY and Lui Tuck Yew
AMK, MP, Tampines, West Coast and Pasir Ris headed by LHL, GCT, MBT, LHK and TCH respectively, one ministar.

Have I missed out anyone?
Normally full ministars don't contest SMCs.

Assuming no major changes in electoral boundaries, they may leave GY and LHH to contest Aljunied (which they will be confident because LHH's profile has increased and GY is quite popular)
They may put Gan in Hong Kah to replace YCT.
They may let Shanmugan, Raymond, NEH, Tharman and Vivian head their own grc, possibly replace LBY or perhaps as a backup to MBT.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Assuming no major changes in electoral boundaries, they may leave GY and LHH to contest Aljunied (which they will be confident because LHH's profile has increased and GY is quite popular)
They may put Gan in Hong Kah to replace YCT.
They may let Shanmugan, Raymond, NEH, Tharman and Vivian head their own grc, possibly replace LBY or perhaps as a backup to MBT.

There is a clear and present danger of PAP losing Aljunied GRC. They won't just let GY and LHH to do it alone.

There are only a few moves they could make:

1) Reduce the size of Aljunied GRC to 4 or even 3 so to cut loss in the event of really losing it.
2) Shift out GY and LHH, put a green team
3) cut Aljunied GRC down into pieces, split into four sets and form GRCs with other sides.
4) Shift in new minister.

They could do the same with Tampines but I think their priority lies with Aljunied GRC, grade A battle ground.

Goh Meng Seng