new mata head is K9?

[scroobal]

Their command leader or sr officers are Inspectors and ASP. If the ASP has been long in that unit, they might give him DSP. Its not the career path at all for leadership.

He was Supt when he left the unit and he did not set it up. It was set up long time ago.

Scroobal

Quote:>>>Why a scholar was given command of the STAR team at his request and they had to change the rank structure upwards is beyond me.<<<

First, let me start to say that I am always impressed by your good posts, comments and information. You are very knowledgeable and most of your comments you make are fair-comments.

Could you explain to people not in the know, like myself about how the STAR team had to change their rank structure upwards. Thanks.

 

[Lee5604]

Scroobal

Thanks for the info.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

Heng Swee Kiat was well regarded when he was put in charge at Jurong. Not only smart but he had that uncommon touch of being able to deal with the ground, aunties, minor crimes , day to day policing. Part of the reason why he was asked to join the PAP :_)) but he instead chose to remain as a mandarin.




Cheers


Locke

 

[bhoven]

There has been rank inflation in the last two years...now SACs are a dime a dozen. And NPC OICs are mostly DSPs. One reason could be that they are trying to stem the resignation rate of the non farmer senior officers. One scholar ( 1997 batch ) just promoted to Supt in July quit w/o a job! As for NJH's ascension to the top post, did you not notice that he spent some time in ISD?

 

[scroobal]

Yes. Agree. Here is one of the best stories I heard about the man and gives a measure of the man. Sr Officers with personal issued firearms can place it in the Police armoury if they travelling overseas on holidays.

Swee Kiat will turn up at Clementi Police Stn, walk to the sentry, ask for pass, make his way to the armoury, hand over the weapon, sign the register and leave quietly. The rest of his rank will make a song and dance, call the commander that they are coming, armourer will be notified, there will be an escort etc.

The only reason people came to know was when the armourer recalled him compared to the rest. Truly a humble chap. Very quiet.

If this guy was CP, it will be an immediate victory to the meek and the weak. The first to feel his presence will not be the teenagers terrorising and vandalising loan shark debtors but the loan shark kingpins themselves. Something the Police have failed to control over 20 years.

Dear Scroobal

Heng Swee Kiat was well regarded when he was put in charge at Jurong. Not only smart but he had that uncommon touch of being able to deal with the ground, aunties, minor crimes , day to day policing. Part of the reason why he was asked to join the PAP :_)) but he instead chose to remain as a mandarin.




Cheers


Locke

 

[scroobal]

Yes on the rank inflation and yes it was done to address high resignation rate. Probably the only service in the world, where some cohorts from Sr Officers recruitment years no longer exist. So much so that they had to promote from Jr Officer ranks. As an analogy, if nurses were allowed to cross over as doctors purely on experience without an MBBS, then 80% of the hospital doctors would have started out as nurses. That is the state of SPH.

Really good scholars tend to go over to admin service. Lock Wai Han, an acknowledged competent investigator and former CID director left to become deputy sec of MTI.



ISD is usually a one way career mover. Really good ones are seconded to other govt service such as ICA, CNB to provide extra fire power of depth. Ng went in and came out faster than the revolving door spitting guests from a hotel. Believe me, another one of his request.

By the way, he is not the only scholar that has treated the civil service as a in-house travel coordinator. There is another one that asked for secondment to SPH as journalist, asked to be posted to Indonesia, then asked for posting to MFA, then Washington and then got struck by illness.

The common trait is that they avoid any hard postings.

There has been rank inflation in the last two years...now SACs are a dime a dozen. And NPC OICs are mostly DSPs. One reason could be that they are trying to stem the resignation rate of the non farmer senior officers. One scholar ( 1997 batch ) just promoted to Supt in July quit w/o a job! As for NJH's ascension to the top post, did you not notice that he spent some time in ISD?

 

[Lee5604]

Dear Scroobal

Quote:>>>As an analogy, if nurses were allowed to cross over as doctors purely on experience without an MBBS, then 80% of the hospital doctors would have started out as nurses.<<<

I'm afraid that this was in the pipeline, if not yet already implemented by the MOH, nurses without an MBBS (or a medical degree) are crossing over as doctors purely based on their experience.

About three years ago, I attended a talk on the Duke-NUS Graduate Medical Programme given by the then-Director of SGH, Dr Charles (I forgot his surname) and during his talk, he mentioned that today because of the rising health costs in Singapore, the work of an anesthestist (who is a qualified doctor and medical specialist) is being taken over by senior nurses (by those who had undergone an advanced-nursing diploma in anesthesiology). (Pardon me if I got the spellings wrong.)

So what I mean, senior nurses in Singapore are crossing over the border which was once a doctor's turf or area of responsibility. I stand to be corrected however. To put the old man's words in context, he will be screaming at me "get your facts right!" So please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Seee3]

Dear Scroobal

I'm afraid that this was in the pipeline, if not yet already implemented by the MOH, nurses without an MBBS (or a medical degree) are crossing over as doctors purely based on their experience.....

Nothing to be afraid of. Experienced nurses are a thousand times better than most doctors. Maybe you don't know, many times behind the scene, young doctors are prompted by the experienced nurses when they prescribed treatments that are not suitable....

 

[kaipoh]

Yeah, the BG that only have Sentosa Cable Car tragedy to his credit and who can't shoot straight with a rifle.

I read shittime on the juicy story on front page, the lip service hero are the bravest man in the resue operation! little mentioned of the boy risking his life to scales the tight rope in the episode.

 

[scroobal]

In the old days, they called it "barefoot" doctors. Brazil and many other 3rd world countries have a similar scheme where they stand in between qualified nurses and doctors and usually found in remote locations. Socrates, the former Brazilian Soccer captain was trained as one. Its a good scheme when there are not enough doctors and the standard of living is low.

In Singapore context, they introduced a scheme where Sr Nurses will interview at triage at A&E and ask you to go to a neighbourhood clinic the next day. This was done somewhere around 1987. But it has not progressed anywhere.

You are however right where Nurses undertake specific courses for functions within the operating theatre and replace some of the doctors. This is happening around the world. It usually technical in nature. Great career move for nurses as well. High demand and migration to 1st world countries is on the fast track.

But I can tell you that Singaporeans like the west will demand to consult an actual doctor first. Unless they force it via polyclinics for those receiving substantial subsidy.

Dear Scroobal

Quote:>>>As an analogy, if nurses were allowed to cross over as doctors purely on experience without an MBBS, then 80% of the hospital doctors would have started out as nurses.<<<

I'm afraid that this was in the pipeline, if not yet already implemented by the MOH, nurses without an MBBS (or a medical degree) are crossing over as doctors purely based on their experience.

About three years ago, I attended a talk on the Duke-NUS Graduate Medical Programme given by the then-Director of SGH, Dr Charles (I forgot his surname) and during his talk, he mentioned that today because of the rising health costs in Singapore, the work of an anesthestist (who is a qualified doctor and medical specialist) is being taken over by senior nurses (by those who had undergone an advanced-nursing diploma in anesthesiology). (Pardon me if I got the spellings wrong.)

So what I mean, senior nurses in Singapore are crossing over the border which was once a doctor's turf or area of responsibility. I stand to be corrected however. To put the old man's words in context, he will be screaming at me "get your facts right!" So please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[allanlee]

By the way, he is not the only scholar that has treated the civil service as a in-house travel coordinator.

Sounds like sour grapes :( .......... he was your junior and he has risen above you :p

The CP's post has all along been a YES man posting....... the most important criteria is the ability to answer to Old Fart - Yes Sir, Yes Sir, Yes Sir !! ..... leadership qualities, initiative, intelligence, hard work, competence are all not essential..... only the ability to reply Yes Yes Yes :p

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroo

" Respect that is earned " versus "Respect that one believes is due." My own view of the current scholarship system is that even with the new recruits in each batch of extremely smart people , there is now an extremely broad base of scholars , a very large fat middle group of middle managers and a very elite apex.

Its now gotten so competitive inside the scholarship system, that " its not what you know" but " who you know" principle which applies and scholars will like any good corporate animal scheme, plot, backstab, steal reports , steal credit to get ahead of the next scholar in his batch or in the previous year.

There was an SAF Overseas Scholar who married a friend I knew who did not gain promotion as fast as his peers despite the fact that in my interactions with him , he was literally not a pen pusher or a paper writer but someone who lead, commanded the respect earned of his armor company and was always with the men. Another Navy man again overseas scholar I heard of was a maverick and always questioning of his superiors.

The former left the army and did not renew his second contract, the latter Chose to become a Submarine Commander whereby the Navy was forced to acknowledge his leadership and tactical skills and thus his rapid career progression in advance of that of his peers.

I can't say whether this anecdotes reflect the system, but I believe that there is somewhat to much talent all around being recruited.

With regards to the current PC, did he pass the STAR course before he became STAR commander ? I will say this for the SG Gov for security, when it comes at least to the SOF NDU Commando's etc. They would never allow a commander who was not badged or went thru the same training as their men or specialist to command these Elite Units.

STAR is important as they guard or help guard well PM SM MM and I doubt they would mess ard with their own security.



Locke

 

[bhoven]

just a small correction...STAR's primary mission is not to bodyguard the unholy trinity; there is a unit under the Security Command which is tasked with this responsibility using elements of the Gurkha Contingent for non close quarters protection.

 

[TheBonerman]

just a small correction...STAR's primary mission is not to bodyguard the unholy trinity; there is a unit under the Security Command which is tasked with this responsibility using elements of the Gurkha Contingent for non close quarters protection.

On certain occasions, snipers are deployed. Security Command don't have their own sniper unit.

 

[allanlee]

On certain occasions, snipers are deployed. Security Command don't have their own sniper unit.

That has changed....... ex-STAR troopers are posted to SecCom regularly now.

 

[TheBonerman]

That has changed....... ex-STAR troopers are posted to SecCom regularly now.

Snipers? Not all Star troopers are snipers right? When I was in NS, the old PTT guys who were in our course impressed the hell out of us with their endurance and discipline. Being a lifer probably figured!

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear B

From what I have seen the older Sec Command officers get posted to guard younger ministers lower on the pecking order. Older Late Thirties, slight pot bellies. The ones I have seen next to SM MM and PM are young fit carrying suitcases and just have that special forces look :_))



Locke

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I really have my doubt about scholar leadership after I went for my ICT recently.

The scholar commander is very soft spoken to be the leader of the elite force. Even the battle plan has problem which has to be spotted by the reservist unit commanders.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[scroobal]

One of other issue is the mentor scheme for scholars. No mentor wants to have a higher attrition rate than his colleagues. So they end up giving in to demands of the strong willed amongst the scholars.

I am not surprised by what you written about the Navy guy. He will stop short of the apex because, the minister are now involved in the appraisal process.

STAR is unlike SOF. Its essentially shoot to kill in a hostage or gunman situation. They tend to take ex-commandoes who join the Police force. Its meant for the hard headed who enjoy shooting. Its a dead end job. Ng is physically fit and he likes the outdoors and I am sure he would have passed any test that they had. For a Sr officer, there is no promotional hope. The commander of the Unit does not make the decision to storm. The decision will come from task force made up of task force/ top brass. Anything more protracted will be handled by SOF or GC. Why they acceded to a scholar's request is beyond me. His biggest challenge in that role is who to promote - Sgt Devan, Sgt Ahmad or Sgt Lim every year.

Security Branch is another separate outfit. They are selected for fitness, appearence and martial arts. Not very smart as they can stand idle for donkey hours occasionaly opening doors. Very loyal. One of the longest serving commander of SB embezzled police funds and absconded to China. He was brought back and not charged - reward for his loyalty. In fact, its the only unit that never had a graduate in it including the commander. Not sure in recent years.

Goh Yong Hong and the CPs before him including the British Cps, all had serious posting. Goh Yong Hong was in Special Investigation Branch and he handled the Shaw kidnapping case.

Dear Scroo
" Respect that is earned " versus "Respect that one believes is due." My own view of the current scholarship system is that even with the new recruits in each batch of extremely smart people , there is now an extremely broad base of scholars , a very large fat middle group of middle managers and a very elite apex.
Locke

 

[blackmore]

Security Branch is another separate outfit. They are selected for fitness, appearence and martial arts. Not very smart as they can stand idle for donkey hours occasionaly opening doors. Very loyal. One of the longest serving commander of SB embezzled police funds and absconded to China. He was brought back and not charged - reward for his loyalty. In fact, its the only unit that never had a graduate in it including the commander. Not sure in recent years.
.

Pretty much confirm what I heard about Oh Kar Chye as a farmer when he was in the system and very loyal to boot. Most of them looked very ordinary and not very academically inclined.