More anti-SDP than anti-WP posts in this present SBF

[kakowi]

Thanks Ramseth for your kind thought.

Chinkangkor, Avantas, Cass888, Myjohnson,

Will it end? Can it end? Should it end?

Let it end.

Only then can something new begin.

 

[Leongsam]

Hi Sam,

Can you share with us how WP members exert pressure on you ?

Nobody can exert pressure on me. I collect no money from anyone and nobody knows who I am in real life.

All I know was that threads used to get deleted and members banned without me knowing anything about it so it was obvious that Walt Howe, the Delphi boss, had a part to play in the process.

In the last year of the Delphi forum's existence, I spent less than 10 minutes a day logged on as I had totally lost interest in the running of the forum and 99% content posted was absolute trash.

To make matters worse, the characters that dominated the forum were far too fanatical for my liking. I enjoy the on-line company of easy going people with a sense of humour plus those with the gift for satire and sarcasm. Those who were around in the early days of the delphi coffee shop (1999/2000) will know what I mean. Sadly, members of such calibre are now few and far between.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chin

Honestly LTK JBJ and CST for all their flaws were able to build on initial slim victories and strengthen their majorities for a second term despite the best attempts of the PAP to hinder them. No one managed to succeed in their first try with margins above 3%. Its not in winning but in able to win and build on that victory

With regards to errrr shifting in and out of constituencies into GRCs there is an achilles hill to this strategy especially if they have not been contested in years and if the MPs have been lazy




Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Ramseth

Err funny who has ever accused the SDP of being PAP moles :_))


locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Avantas

God. In essence certain articles which have been from the SDP I have disagreed with in particular.

1. Formation of SG and role of LCS
2. Maria Hertog Riots and a rewriting of history
3. SDP transportation policy well written and good points though the need to subsidize the poor to have cars was silly and the notion that the removal of all taxes on cars would lower the total cost of car ownership.

4. latest commentary on the failure of wall street and its link to the praises of SG by some of these banks and orgs.





Locke

 

[Alu862]

Dear Avantas

God. In essence certain articles which have been from the SDP I have disagreed with in particular.

1. Formation of SG and role of LCS
2. Maria Hertog Riots and a rewriting of history
3. SDP transportation policy well written and good points though the need to subsidize the poor to have cars was silly and the notion that the removal of all taxes on cars would lower the total cost of car ownership.

4. latest commentary on the failure of wall street and its link to the praises of SG by some of these banks and orgs.





Locke

I agree with locke on these 4 ludicrous points made by the SDP.

 

[chinkangkor]

Honestly LTK JBJ and CST for all their flaws were able to build on initial slim victories and strengthen their majorities for a second term despite the best attempts of the PAP to hinder them. No one managed to succeed in their first try with margins above 3%. Its not in winning but in able to win and build on that victory

Note that Potong Pasir and Hougang have not been targets for gerrymandering. As for JBJ, he was hugely popular in Anson and a large part of his constituency was absorbed by LKY's ward. Still JBJ managed to win again. Note that there was no HDB upgrading then.

It was in the 1997 GE that more GRCs were created, enlarged and blatant redrawing of boundaries occured. LKY was determined to finish off Chee and his brand of politics. He then issued direct threats against voters from voting for SDP and with the HDB upgrading dangling infront of voters and the sticks LKY brandishing infront of them in Gombak and Nee Soon, Ling's and Cheo's political fate were sealed.

The image of SDP were also tarnished by Chiam whose attacks against his own party had been carried extensively in and twisted by 154th. This was a huge blow to SDP. With the confluence of all these factors, both Cheo and Ling stood no chance to win another time to consolidate their base.

 

[chinkangkor]

With regards to errrr shifting in and out of constituencies into GRCs there is an achilles hill to this strategy especially if they have not been contested in years and if the MPs have been lazy

The achilles heel is not in their being uncontest for many years, but the quality of PAP intelligence gathered from their grassroots.

 

[mustpaycashhhh]

I wondered whether you guys notice the discrepancy:

In the old SBF, there are 90% anti-WP posts and 10% anti-SDP posts.

In this new forum, it seems to be another way round.

Many anti-WP forumers such as ptader, MM, has gone MIA, replaced by new nicks who are anti-SDP.

It is obvious that the WP running dogs have forced Sam to leave the old SBF so as to make the new forum a WP forum to promote the fake opposition party.

A vote for WP = A vote for PAP.

Spread the message

U r the SDP running dog is it?

 

[NamQiong]

U r the SDP running dog is it?

Hi Andrew Loh, why is there a big crucifix hanging outside ur door? Hows ur mom? :p

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chin

For both PP and HG there have been nibbles around the corners as with CCC and BG. The point I believe is that when any opposition candidate gets in as far as I know on recent history the gerrymandering has been of a limited four five blocks here, four five blocks scenario. The question as always is does that limited nibbling serve as an excuse for one's loss or the PAP's dangling of carrots in view of the carrots thrown at HG and PP voters for the last twenty years or is the reason more substantive that those who got in and lost were unable to sustain their initial political momentum.


Locke

Note that Potong Pasir and Hougang have not been targets for gerrymandering. As for JBJ, he was hugely popular in Anson
and a large part of his constituency was absorbed by LKY's ward. Still JBJ managed to win again. Note that there was no HDB upgrading then.

It was in the 1997 GE that more GRCs were created, enlarged and blatant redrawing of boundaries occured. LKY was determined to finish off Chee and his brand of politics. He then issued direct threats against voters from voting for SDP and with the HDB upgrading dangling infront of voters and the sticks LKY brandishing infront of them in Gombak and Nee Soon, Ling's and Cheo's political fate were sealed.

The image of SDP were also tarnished by Chiam whose attacks against his own party had been carried extensively in and twisted by 154th. This was a huge blow to SDP. With the confluence of all these factors, both Cheo and Ling stood no chance to win another time to consolidate their base.

 

[chinkangkor]

For both PP and HG there have been nibbles around the corners as with CCC and BG. The point I believe is that when any opposition candidate gets in as far as I know on recent history the gerrymandering has been of a limited four five blocks here, four five blocks scenario. The question as always is does that limited nibbling serve as an excuse for one's loss or the PAP's dangling of carrots in view of the carrots thrown at HG and PP voters for the last twenty years or is the reason more substantive that those who got in and lost were unable to sustain their initial political momentum.

Chiam won Potong Pasir in GE84, GE88 and in GE91, he won by a large majority of 69.64%. To be exact, he won by 7,096 votes more. So any contest in Potong Pasir would be quite immuned to small scale gerrymandering. In GE97, when the HDB upgrading was first used by PAP to win support, Chiam popularity dropped to 55.14%. In that GE, Chiam won by 1,814 votes more. Many in Potong Pasir hoped to have upgrading and so this affected Chiam's share of votes.

LTK won Hougang in GE91 by a difference of 1,134 votes but he was a teochiew and was very popular with the teochiew folks there. LTK was praise by LKY on his performance in Parliament and his performance was used to contrast with that of Ling and Cheo, which LKY described as dismayed. All these news were widely carried in the media. LTK has also been hardworking in serving his residents too. In GE97, LTK won by a larger majority of 58.02%. There was less clamouring for upgrading in Hougang and so the HDB upgrading carrot was less effective there. He won by 3,722 votes more.

A bit of background on events surrounding SDP.

Between 1991 and 1997, Chee and SDP were relentlessly hounded by the press.

One particular case: The SDP healthcare report was thoroughly discredited by PAP and Select Parliamentary Committee was convened to look into one typo error. As a result, Chee and his CEC members were fine heftily and their credibility were shattered.

Ling won Bukit Gombak in GE91 by only 654 votes more or 51.4% of total votes. In GE97, there was a three cornered fight as Chiam broke his promise and sent a candidate under SPP to contest Gombak. The infighting between Chiam and SDP's leadership carried into the GE97 and this created a very bad perceptions of SDP as a political party in voters mind. As a result, Ling only managed to get 28.42% of the total votes.

Cheo won Nee Soon Central in GE91 with a very slim majority of 168 votes. Some shifting of a few blocks here and there would have meant Cheo had no chance of winning. In GE97, Cheo only managed to get 38.67% of the total votes.

With LKY's direct threats, a bias media, Chiam's attacks against SDP, HDB upgrading, gerrymandering etc all working against Ling and Cheo, both stood no chance of retaining their seats.

If you have more information, you should share it with us since you have been active in the political scene. But of course, you can continue to make baseless allegations without looking into the causes of their defeats and assert that their lost were due to them unable to sustain their initial political momentum. In a free speech environment here, you can say anything you like.

 

[mustpaycashhhh]

Nobody can exert pressure on me. I collect no money from anyone and nobody knows who I am in real life.

All I know was that threads used to get deleted and members banned without me knowing anything about it so it was obvious that Walt Howe, the Delphi boss, had a part to play in the process.

In the last year of the Delphi forum's existence, I spent less than 10 minutes a day logged on as I had totally lost interest in the running of the forum and 99% content posted was absolute trash.

To make matters worse, the characters that dominated the forum were far too fanatical for my liking. I enjoy the on-line company of easy going people with a sense of humour plus those with the gift for satire and sarcasm. Those who were around in the early days of the delphi coffee shop (1999/2000) will know what I mean. Sadly, members of such calibre are now few and far between.

There, u see already right? People like Avantas and NamQiong only know to put words in your mouth. They lie and twist words to attack other pipa. These pipa got no honour and no shame.

 

[mustpaycashhhh]

Hi Andrew Loh, why is there a big crucifix hanging outside ur door? Hows ur mom? :p

There is big crucifix in your pussy, why there got one? How's your pussy? How's your Lawyer from Nehson Building? He still got bonk that tahbulaytahan Mei or not? Got rumour say very bad thing about them you know? LOL.

 

[cleareyes]

Dear Avantas

Ok right seeing as I am a running dog....anything else you want to say abt me, where I stay what I do etc etc since you delight in doing that to others.




Locke

u aint a running dog...just a horny bastard.

 

[cass888]

Cheo & Ling lost honourably to the dirty under-hand tactics of PAP, including the use of gerrymandering and direct threats issued by none other than the fearsome LKY.

Chiam was already the incumbent MP for at least three terms and was quite popular with Potong Pasir residents. He has worked hard for his constituents and his win was well deserved.

Alright. You win. Cheo's total silence in Parliament had nothing to do with it. Nor Ling's Ah Bengness and his "Don't talk Cock" incident.

 

[chinkangkor]

Alright. You win. Cheo's total silence in Parliament had nothing to do with it. Nor Ling's Ah Bengness and his "Don't talk Cock" incident.

If they were that lousy, let the voters kicked them out. The choices should be the voters to make.

But if PAP choose to play dirty resulting in the election turning out to be less than free and fair, then there would always be doubts about whether voters cast their votes to PAP out of their dissatisfactions with Ling's and Cheo's performances or whether voters have been cowed by LKY's threats, lure of HDB upgrading, gerrymandering playing a part etc.

 

[cass888]

If they were that lousy, let the voters kicked them out. The choices should be the voters to make.

But if PAP choose to play dirty resulting in the election turning out to be less than free and fair, then there would always be doubts about whether voters cast their votes to PAP out of their dissatisfactions with Ling's and Cheo's performances or whether voters have been cowed by LKY's threats, lure of HDB upgrading, gerrymandering playing a part etc.

If they were that good they would have won over the PAP voters in their first term. JBJ, Chiam and Low all had enhanced majorities in their second elections. Gerrymandering of two blocks of flats would not have been enough.

Stop making excuses for the reCHEEme.

 

[chinkangkor]

If they were that good they would have won over the PAP voters in their first term. JBJ, Chiam and Low all had enhanced majorities in their second elections. Gerrymandering of two blocks of flats would not have been enough.

Stop making excuses for the reCHEEme.

To a certain extent, Chiam & LTK are tolerated to co-exist with PAP as both serve PAP's objective to showcase to the public what type of opposition is permissible and will be allowed in S'pore.

GE91 marked for the first time where PAP's share of total votes fell to the lowest point of 61%. A historic four oppositions were elected on Chaim's by-election strategy of contesting for less than half of the total parliamentary seats up for grab. This new political development made the PAP leadership worried.

In 1992, Chee came onto the political stage through the Marine Parade GRC by-election. During the campaign, Chee challenged Teo Chee Hean not to hide under the skirts of Goh Chok Tong in a GRC and called for a public debate. Chee's style from the start was not to the liking of LKY.

From 1993 to 1997, Chee criticised various govt policies such as the public transport system, healthcare system etc and has led SDP to produce and publish its own detailed reports on public transport and healthcare etc. Under pressure, PAP scrambled to instruct LTA to produce a blue print on public transport titled "World Class Public Transport For The 21st Century". SDP's healthcare report was later found to contain a typo error and a Select Parliamentary Committee was convened to conduct an inquiry. Chee and his SDP leadership were found guilty and a hefty fine was slapped down on all responsible.

Of the many letters Chee sent to the 154th, there were two which I considered have deeply offended LKY. In one letter, Chee wrote that PAP is not equal to S'pore. In the other, Chee wrote at the end of the letter that "No one is indispensable in S'pore".

Through SDP battles and skirmishes with PAP, Chee has demonstrated his intelligence and intellectual abilities to take on anyone in LKY's group of younger ministers. All these then led to LKY taking on Chee and SDP personally, determined to squash Chee & SDP and sent them to political oblivion for good.

It is in this political context that Ling and Cheo contested GE97 with the constant pounding from the 154th up to the nomination day to GE97, with their little short-comings blown all out of proportions for ridiculed and public entertainment, and both were consistently portrayed as incompetent.

On the other hand, Chiam and LTK were propped up and positively portrayed in the media, to the extent of LKY heaping praises on Chiam's and LTK's performances in parliament so as to put Ling and Cheo in the worst light possible.

In a way, Chiam and LTK are very fortunate as their political styles and existence suit PAP's ulterior motives.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chin

The numbers speak for themselves, I would say. My apologies for the late reply as this thread has somewhat become lost in the discussion over the post JBJ era.

1. Firstly the collapse in the level of support between in 1997 between Cheo and Ling was generic and across the board and signified a drastic lost of the middle ground. Interestingly enough if one adds the number of votes gained by the SPP together with SDP's Ling and compare that with the total gained by Cheo, one would find very little electoral discrepancy. The SPP candidate lost his deposit and that in itself lost chiam credibility and also illustrated in my view the importance of the middle ground versus the die die vote opposition ground.

2. Chin, JBJ was loved enough by the people such that Anson repeatedly voted him in and he was only gotten rid of through legal suits. Who was to blame for the debacle for the SDP ? Its always easier to blame the PAP, but we should remember that JBJ survived many things including all the guns of the PAP and the SDP did not and that in itself is food for thought. JBJ won and built his majority despite the PAP throwing everything and the kitchen sink, the SDP did not and crumbled, I believe its better to learn from what JBJ did right then complain about PAP unfairness seeing as that unfairness is a given for the opposition in Singapore


3. The SDP had a chance to stick together and cement an opposition stronghold, they did not and crumbled firstly to internal party politics, secondly to PAP pressure which would have been there without the first.






Locke