More anti-SDP than anti-WP posts in this present SBF

[chinkangkor]

What rubbish. You fans of the SDP reCHEEme really cannot tell truth from fiction.

Chiam won those seats under the same conditions. And PAP did not win all three seats. SDP lost one of the seats to the SPP.

SDP lost the two seats after electoral boundaries of those two constituencies were redrawn, vicious media attacks and LKY threats against voters in those two constituencies.

Chiam contested under SPP but had an easier time relatively to SDP as Potong Pasir constituency boundary was left largely intact and LKY didn't personally issued threats against voting for Chiam. That's a big difference.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chin

The tale I heard from the SDP a couple of years back as that the lost happened because a couple of block of flats which contained hard core opposition votes previously identified by the PAP were drawn into neighboring constituencies whilst more PAP blocks were drawn in. This was in reference to Cheo Chai Chen. As far as I know in every election the PAP attempts to nibble and chew away at opposition held constituencies to its advantage. Block here, block there, street here street there etc. My own view is that if the core opposition support remains strong and is built on, then such nibbling ard the edges will not affect who wins as long as the centre holds, however if its a damm close thing then yes such nibbling can swing it in favor of the PAP. I never quite believed that line of argument with regards to Cheo.




Locke




Locke

 

[kakowi]

Just put lockeliberal and leetahbar on your ignore list: 80% of the nonsense in the forum will be automatically cut out

E-Jay

Hello E-Jay,

Can a synergy between SDP and WP create common grounds that will benefit SDP?

 

[chinkangkor]

The tale I heard from the SDP a couple of years back as that the lost happened because a couple of block of flats which contained hard core opposition votes previously identified by the PAP were drawn into neighboring constituencies whilst more PAP blocks were drawn in. This was in reference to Cheo Chai Chen. As far as I know in every election the PAP attempts to nibble and chew away at opposition held constituencies to its advantage. Block here, block there, street here street there etc. My own view is that if the core opposition support remains strong and is built on, then such nibbling ard the edges will not affect who wins as long as the centre holds, however if its a damm close thing then yes such nibbling can swing it in favor of the PAP. I never quite believed that line of argument with regards to Cheo.

If you are referring to victory with large enough margins, then yes, gerrymandering will not work to PAP's advantage.

However, those constituencies that were first won by opposition were at slim margin. Drawing in blocks which were supportive of PAP and drawing out blocks which were supportive of opposition will be decisive to the outcome.

In the last GE, PAP drew in Serangoon constituency which were supportive of PAP and drew out parts of Aljunied GRC which were supportive of WP to Marine Parade GRC. Without such manipulations, WP could have won Aljunied GRC.

The same trick was applied to East Coast GRC although WP lost by quite a large margin. PAP would have won anyway but such tactics, to me, are shameless.

 

[NgEjay]

With the state of politics in Singapore today, Opposition as a whole is struggling even to maintain a respectable scoreline against PAP. Turning into civil war or cannibalism among Opposition parties themselves should the last thing Opposition needs. Why keep scores like SDP v. WP or SDP v. NSP? Shouldn't it be PAP v. Opposition as frontline and as scoreboard?

Certainly! Opposition in Singapore should unite and present a consolidated front to the PAP. Take Malaysia for instance. The ideological differences between PKR and PAS are deeper than you and I can possibly fathom, transcending religious boundaries even. Yet even they can put aside their differences and work together for a common purpose.

SDP has, throughout the years, been making overtures to other Opposition parties to work together on joint projects. Unfortunately, their overtures have fallen on deaf years. Take the electoral reform initiative, for instance. No opposition party gave SDP a favourable answer to join the group. If a party, say, WP, had a better idea of how to conduct it, they could even have offered to take the lead.

When other opposition leaders make critical remarks that cannot be substantiated by the facts, SDP has every right to respond. If, as some detractors here claim, SDP does not have a right to demand an explanation, isn't that equivalent to PAP insisting that it is alone is right all the time and that no one should challenge its interpretation of the facts?

E-Jay

 

[cass888]

However, those constituencies that were first won by opposition were at slim margin. Drawing in blocks which were supportive of PAP and drawing out blocks which were supportive of opposition will be decisive to the outcome.

Why can't you supportes of the SDP reCHEEme led by the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan screwed up. You mean the "Don't talk cock" incident didn't lose any votes? You mean kicking out Chiam didn't turn some opposition supporters in BB and NSC against them?

No lah. It's never the fault of the reCHEEme. It's PAP's fault. It's WP's fault. It's SDA's fault. But the reCHEEme can do no wrong.

 

[NgEjay]

Hello E-Jay,

Can a synergy between SDP and WP create common grounds that will benefit SDP?

Most certainly!

I believe, from what limited interactions I had with SDP members, that they are always on the lookout for ways and means to work with other oppo parties.

But at the end of the day, we must not only respect our differences, but we must accept criticism when it is offered. SDP has its own way of challenging the PAP Regime. WP has its own way. If we feel the need to point out flaws in each other's approaches, we must feel perfectly free to do so without fear that we would be labelled as PAP moles.

If criticism between opposition parties is not tolerated, aren't we behaving no different from the PAP which has shown itself to be intolerant of criticism?

I believe WP has a lot of room for improvement. It must learn to stop playing 2nd fiddle to the PAP and act on its own convictions. It must learn to treasure the talents within its own ranks and not castigate its own members out of jealousy or internal politiking. It must learn not to back down when rebutted by PAP MPs. And it must learn not to be silent when asked important questions in Parliament.

SDP too has lots of room for improvement. It needs to fine tune the way it delivers its message to the people. Sometimes it must recognize there is a time and place to deliver a softer image. Also, it must learn not just to reach out to hard-core supporters or preach to the converted, but also to tackle the middle ground, or even those within the establishment, and court them.

I believe that everyone has lots of room for improvement, and that is why all the more we must be open and receptive to criticism from each other, and not assume that anyone who criticises opposition is a PAP mole.

E-Jay

 

[Ramseth]

When other opposition leaders make critical remarks that cannot be substantiated by the facts, SDP has every right to respond. If, as some detractors here claim, SDP does not have a right to demand an explanation, isn't that equivalent to PAP insisting that it is alone is right all the time and that no one should challenge its interpretation of the facts?

What's the ranking of the Singapore media in terms of freedom of expression and objective credibility? 140+ or 150+? When they praised PAP, you don't believe them, or at least don't take them at face value. But why when they cast an opposition politician as if he's attacking another opposition party, why jump in and embrace it as gospel (or darwinist) truth, and even help evangelise (or progandandise) it?

 

[chinkangkor]

Why can't you supportes of the SDP reCHEEme led by the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan screwed up. You mean the "Don't talk cock" incident didn't lose any votes? You mean kicking out Chiam didn't turn some opposition supporters in BB and NSC against them?

No lah. It's never the fault of the reCHEEme. It's PAP's fault. It's WP's fault. It's SDA's fault. But the reCHEEme can do no wrong.

Chiam resigned on his own accord. But media portray it as if Chiam was being kicked out by his protege Chee to create an illusion of political infighting within SDP, which was untrue and damaging to SDP.

You are under-estimating the power of the media in shaping public opinions and perceptions. Just look at how it is tightly controlled to further the political interest of the ruling party and use by PAP to demonise the opposition. That till this day, the control over the media has never been relaxed tells you how important its role is.

Ling did make some mistakes but it was the media which purposefully blew it out of proportions to discredit Ling. The media has a social responsibility to report events fairly and in a balance manner. But PAP has put the media on a tight leash to serve a political party rather than S'pore.

 

[cass888]

Chiam resigned on his own accord. But media portray it as if Chiam was being kicked out by his protege Chee to create an illusion of political infighting within SDP, which was untrue and damaging to SDP.

Another lie or half truth of the SDP reCHEEme. Chiam resigned as Secretary General and from the CEC. The SDP reCHEEme led by the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan then tried to kick Chiam out of the SDP which would have caused the opposition to lose one seat. Chiam went to court and stopped the expulsion and resigned only after Parliament was dissolved.

 

[kakowi]

Hello E-Jay,

Even if a thing is right, there is also an additional consideration: is it helpful?

The situation right now:

(a) yourself and Goh Meng Seng;
(b) Locke and Avantas;
(c) various nicks whom I do not know where and who they belong to

is absolutely not helpful.

There may be situations underlying it which makes it perfectly lawful, justifiable. But the exercise of such justice does not lead to a furtherance of your goals in the minds of the voters.

 

[Ramseth]

Well said, up your points.

 

[Ramseth]

:( Wah, cannot up your points. Got limit.

 

[chinkangkor]

Another lie or half truth of the SDP reCHEEme. Chiam resigned as Secretary General and from the CEC. The SDP reCHEEme led by the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan then tried to kick Chiam out of the SDP which would have caused the opposition to lose one seat. Chiam went to court and stopped the expulsion and resigned only after Parliament was dissolved.

Chiam was attacking his own party and despite numerous warnings by the SDP CEC, Chiam continued his vicious attacks. This then led to Chiam's explusion from SDP, which the CEC voted democratically and supported by almost all in the CEC. Chiam digged his own grave.

 

[Ramseth]

Chiam was attacking his own party and despite numerous warnings by the SDP CEC, Chiam continued his vicious attacks. This then led to Chiam's explusion from SDP, which the CEC voted democratically and supported by almost all in the CEC. Chiam digged his own grave.

Disagreeing is not the same as attacking. Vigorous disagreements are not the same as vicious attacks.

 

[Avantas]

What a hypocrite you are !

Have you forgotten the vicious attacks launched by WP members against E Jay in the old SBF after his letter to the ST Forum criticizing LTK which resembles loan sharks and hooligans ?

By the way, is it true that there are some triad members in WP ?



I SPIT on you !

Disagreeing is not the same as attacking. Vigorous disagreements are not the same as vicious attacks.

 

[cass888]

Chiam digged his own grave.

Oh, really? Last I checked, Chiam is still in Parliament. His two parliamentary ex-colleagues who did not have the guts to stand up to the reCHEEme got booted out of the polls. And by convincing victories too, so you can't just blame it on gerrymandering - they saw Ling and Chee as being privy to the destruction of the opposition.

 

[chinkangkor]

Oh, really? Last I checked, Chiam is still in Parliament. His two parliamentary ex-colleagues who did not have the guts to stand up to the reCHEEme got booted out of the polls. And by convincing victories too, so you can't just blame it on gerrymandering - they saw Ling and Chee as being privy to the destruction of the opposition.

Cheo & Ling lost honourably to the dirty under-hand tactics of PAP, including the use of gerrymandering and direct threats issued by none other than the fearsome LKY.

Chiam was already the incumbent MP for at least three terms and was quite popular with Potong Pasir residents. He has worked hard for his constituents and his win was well deserved.

 

[myjohnson]

How effective has Chiam been in parliament? Despite that, with all due respect to him, especially so in the winter of his political life, the majority in Potong Pasir had reelected him into Parliament again and again in the face of threats of withdrawals of upgradings and other amenities. Does that not tell us something about how to win the hearts of the electorate?

 

[chinkangkor]

Those who are not swayed by HDB upgrading forms the minority in materialistic S'pore. It so happens that sufficient numbers reside in Potong Pasir. The residents' loyalty to incumbent MP cannot be discounted too.