MINDEF blames deceased soldier instead of accepting responsibility

[halsey02]

His death is so unnecessary. There was negligence and MINDEF doesn't give a damn, using the AGC to cover its back.

The kangaroo judge was definitely siding with the government. His decision was groundless, IMHO. MINDEF had no contractual obligation is pure bs.

In response to that decision, there should be a boycott of NS and reservists until the government unequivocally state that the MINDEF is contractually obligated to protect all soldiers from harm.

You hand your sons to them, so what is the complain? generations of males have suffered in their hands & yet...we still hand over our sons to them to do what they please to do?...NS IS KILLING SINGAPORE....I can not understand, why some chose to being their sons overseas for education & then force them to come back here to do National Slavery...if my parents does that, swear I will disown them...

 

[krafty]

i stick to my perception that army is the most cocked up among air force and navy. i think it's still the same, go ask those who have served in the SAF before. they will tell you the same.:oIo:

 

[PTADER]

The Minister of Defence, Dr Ng Eng Hen and Commander TRADOC, BG Chan Wing Khai, must stop speaking with their forked tongues and misleading the public with their duplicities and half-truths.

See http://www.mindef.gov.sg/content/da...news/army_news_-_what_s/2014/July2014/APC.pdf

(PROMOTION TO MAJ)

PROMOTION TO MAJ
1 CPT ANG SZE CHUN
2 CPT AW WEN WEI
3 CPT BOEY WAI FOONG MICHELLE
4 CPT BRIAN ANTHONY THOMAS
5 CPT CAI ZHENHAN
6 CPT CHAN CHOON WAI
7 CPT CHEE HONG YI
8 CPT CHEN HAOYE, ROGER
9 CPT CHIA CHEE KIANG ZYAYN
10 CPT CHIA THYE SIONG

 

[SNKPlaymore]

i stick to my perception that army is the most cocked up among air force and navy. i think it's still the same, go ask those who have served in the SAF before. they will tell you the same.:oIo:

sama sama....

 

[Leongsam]

The safety distance specified in the TSR are based on "no less than". It's not something that must be exactly 10 or 20 metres. It should not be particularly difficult for anyone who has learned about measurement taught in the early years of primary schools or using their foot paces to measure distances as taught in navigation lessons in BMT, SISPEC or OCS.

You throw a smoke grenade and it lands 21 metres away from another grenade. After billowing smoke for a couple of seconds it starts to roll down a small slope and the separation is now 19.5 metres but the grenade continues to discharge it's contents. What happens? Exercise cancelled and all report to medical centre??

No wonder the army is a joke. Fucking sinkies are so scared of dying they shouldn't leave their homes.

 

[mojito]

Which part of what I stated, "the study recommended and MINDEF accepted and implemented the recommendations" did you not understand???

Once it was implemented, it was no longer a "recommendation". It becomes a rule and this rule was clearly spelled out in the TSR.

"In 1998, MINDEF commissioned NUS to conduct a study regarding safety issues on the use of smoke grenades. The study recommended and MINDEF accepted and implemented the recommendations i.e., that the minimum distance between each tossed smoke grenade should not be less than 20m and that the minimum distance between troops and any tossed smoke grenade be no less than 10m. The thick-skulled PC threw 3 times the number of smoke grenades permitted achieving "the more smoke the better" effect but breeching the TSR which resulted in the death of one soldier."​

Implement does not make it a rule lah. Hur hur hur. It is just a guideline, a line to guide you! Roads help you get to where you want, but if you walk, there is no need to follow the road right? Simple?

 

[mojito]

Just pay the Family 1 peanut will do, PAP can keep tje rest, all NS men wud be v happy knowing that their Family will be taken care off if they die while serving the Cuntry.

For lesser mortals 1/10 of a peanut will suffice.

 

[steffychun]

You throw a smoke grenade and it lands 21 metres away from another grenade. After billowing smoke for a couple of seconds it starts to roll down a small slope and the separation is now 19.5 metres but the grenade continues to discharge it's contents. What happens? Exercise cancelled and all report to medical centre??

No wonder the army is a joke. Fucking sinkies are so scared of dying they shouldn't leave their homes.

Exactly. ISIS is laughing now. Cannot Tahan smoke grenade then how when terrorist bomb? Certain death from the smoke!

 

[halsey02]

You throw a smoke grenade and it lands 21 metres away from another grenade. After billowing smoke for a couple of seconds it starts to roll down a small slope and the separation is now 19.5 metres but the grenade continues to discharge it's contents. What happens? Exercise cancelled and all report to medical centre??

No wonder the army is a joke. Fucking sinkies are so scared of dying they shouldn't leave their homes.

Ok lah! you win!... ha ha ha, the point is not the dying from over exposure of whatever..if not many of us, back in the old days in SAF would have died...how many types of pollutants we had been exposed to?...only God Knows..we are still alive. I have lobbed a few smoke grenade at a herd of water buffaloes at the base of my OP somewhere on this earth eons ago..wonder if any of them died? or they complained??

The point is....there is never an accountability in what they do, the trainers we are sure have in their eagerness to simulate whatever have overdone the smoke grenade training...do we have to sincerely declare what we are allergic when enlisting in National Slavery..if we do...I bet 99% of us including me...would have been given a discharge....but we survived.

Mistakes were made...those involved had been punished, says MINDEF & that is right...but the parents are not pleased that MINDEF had killed their son....they want recourse.

The whole issue is not whether the boy os allergic to whatever & did he or dod he not declare he as asthma that bad...the issue is, you killed somebody son & they want "revenge"...

 

[numero uno]

Implement does not make it a rule lah. Hur hur hur. It is just a guideline, a line to guide you! Roads help you get to where you want, but if you walk, there is no need to follow the road right? Simple?

The thick-skulled PC threw 3 times the number of smoke grenades permitted probably to torture the recruit. Not uncommon as I have seen such sadistic buggers in the army who likes to vent their anger on the poor recruits. alot of these bastards are the minority races. remember the commandos recruit dunking death incidents. the culprit is a shit skin.
Now this malay PC bugger must have a thing against that recruit and probably wanted revenge on taht recruit. otehrwise why throw 6. throwing 2 or 3 is already too much. even normal people would suffocate. throwing 6 is a definite overkill!!! no pun intended. anybody would have breathing and lung problems and even die even without asthma. There is no other reason to throw 6 grenades at one go!!! worse than haze. these smoke grenade's smoke from 1 alone is so thick so that it can camouflage the shouldier. throwing 6 is to cause the recruit breathing problems. I am sure he knows about it and intend to sabo the recruit . unfortunately that poor cahp also has asthma and died from the massive inhalation. that's my view which is most plausible.

 

[GoldenDragon]

The thick-skulled PC threw 3 times the number of smoke grenades permitted probably to torture the recruit. Not uncommon as I have seen such sadistic buggers in the army who likes to vent their anger on the poor recruits. alot of these bastards are the minority races. remember the commandos recruit dunking death incidents. the culprit is a shit skin.
Now this malay PC bugger must have a thing against that recruit and probably wanted revenge on taht recruit. otehrwise why throw 6. throwing 2 or 3 is already too much. even normal people would suffocate. throwing 6 is a definite overkill!!! no pun intended. anybody would have breathing and lung problems and even die even without asthma. There is no other reason to throw 6 grenades at one go!!! worse than haze. these smoke grenade's smoke from 1 alone is so thick so that it can camouflage the shouldier. throwing 6 is to cause the recruit breathing problems. I am sure he knows about it and intend to sabo the recruit . unfortunately that poor cahp also has asthma and died from the massive inhalation. that's my view which is most plausible.

Good summary. End of it all, the deceased was an innocent victim. Wrong place and wrong time. Could have been someone else.

 

[mojito]

The thick-skulled PC threw 3 times the number of smoke grenades permitted probably to torture the recruit. Not uncommon as I have seen such sadistic buggers in the army who likes to vent their anger on the poor recruits. alot of these bastards are the minority races. remember the commandos recruit dunking death incidents. the culprit is a shit skin.
Now this malay PC bugger must have a thing against that recruit and probably wanted revenge on taht recruit. otehrwise why throw 6. throwing 2 or 3 is already too much. even normal people would suffocate. throwing 6 is a definite overkill!!! no pun intended. anybody would have breathing and lung problems and even die even without asthma. There is no other reason to throw 6 grenades at one go!!! worse than haze. these smoke grenade's smoke from 1 alone is so thick so that it can camouflage the shouldier. throwing 6 is to cause the recruit breathing problems. I am sure he knows about it and intend to sabo the recruit . unfortunately that poor cahp also has asthma and died from the massive inhalation. that's my view which is most plausible.

Corright. You see officer carry 6 smoke greandes go outfield before? Let alone throw 6 at one go? That is why this is isolated incident. Isolated! A confluence of factors beyond our comprehension. Judge says no case means no case. We must accept that Private Lee was just unlucky to be there when everything went wrong. :(

 

[halsey02]

i stick to my perception that army is the most cocked up among air force and navy. i think it's still the same, go ask those who have served in the SAF before. they will tell you the same.:oIo:

To quote one 'famous' person...." I don't know what to say?"....on a brigade level exercise somewhere on this earth, many eons ago....time were spent undoing the cockups than really the manoeuvres ....what a perception they gave..can we ever forget?..."don't know what to say".

 

[PTADER]

Implement does not make it a rule lah. Hur hur hur. It is just a guideline, a line to guide you! Roads help you get to where you want, but if you walk, there is no need to follow the road right? Simple?

You have absolutely no fucking idea of what TSR stands for, do you?

It stands for "Training Safety Regulations".

Look up the word "regulation" in the dictionary if you don't know what it means. Look it up under the SAF Act (Cap 295), Part XIII, Miscellaneous, Section 205 if you want to know more about "Regulations". "Regulations" does not mean "guidelines".

There's really nothing to be ashamed of if you don't know something. Just learn from those who happen to have some knowledge or know about the subject matter being discussed and most importantly and for fuck sake, please don't simply argue for the sake of arguing. Thanks.

 

[PTADER]

You throw a smoke grenade and it lands 21 metres away from another grenade. After billowing smoke for a couple of seconds it starts to roll down a small slope and the separation is now 19.5 metres but the grenade continues to discharge it's contents. What happens? Exercise cancelled and all report to medical centre??

No wonder the army is a joke. Fucking sinkies are so scared of dying they shouldn't leave their homes.

You can argue and try to trivialise it with examples such as the one you provided. Likewise, I can ask those opposed to and cynical about such safety regulations about how many seconds or minutes is acceptable for soldiers to have their heads dunk and held under water for POW training as part of "realistic" training. If I ask 5 people, I have no doubts that I will get 10 different answers. Likewise if I ask those who are opposed to these "less than 10 and 20 metre" smoke grenade safety rule as to what they think is then acceptable if they find these distances to be absurd, I have no doubt no one will be able to agree on the safety distances.

The reality is that all armies around the world, including their gungho elite Special Forces, have in place Training Safety Regulations which regulates what is safe and permissible during peace time training so that soldiers need not have to suffer needless injuries and deaths during peacetime training. We are not talking about real war and real combat operations here but peacetime training.

 

[mojito]

You have absolutely no fucking idea of what TSR stands for, do you?

It stands for "Training Safety Regulations".

Look up the word "regulation" in the dictionary if you don't know what it means. Look it up under the SAF Act (Cap 295), Part XIII, Miscellaneous, Section 205 if you want to know more about "Regulations". "Regulations" does not mean "guidelines".

There's really nothing to be ashamed of if you don't know something. Just learn from those who happen to have some knowledge or know about the subject matter being discussed and most importantly and for fuck sake, please don't simply argue for the sake of arguing. Thanks.

No sir, the short answer is i am simply unconcerned.

I want you to know there are many like me who are unmoved by your reasoning as long as we have our coolie rice.

 

[steffychun]

http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69054

Roll call of the dead. How come their parents never go to see Chee?

 

[frenchbriefs]

under played and underdeclared his asmathic condition?wtf is this bullshit?

 

[GoldenDragon]

Accepting responsibility is akin to asking the govt to eatshitndie. They are more skilled in accepting credit even when it isnt theirs. This permeates through the entire civil service. They are also highly skilled in the art of tai chi.

 

[steffychun]

SAF/Mindef does care about people who die!

If you are a scholar!

http://kementah.blogspot.sg/2009_10_01_archive.html