The reports said 60k?
People raise the son for almost 20 years.....CB pap murdered him and dish out 60k to the family. Burn in hell white scums
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MINDEF blames deceased soldier instead of accepting responsibility
- Thread starter winnipegjets
- Start date
The reports said 60k?
People raise the son for almost 20 years.....CB pap murdered him and dish out 60k to the family. Burn in hell white scums
There is no evidence of negligence whatsoever. I was a trainer in SAFTI and my job was to put the soldiers who were under my charge through their paces and if the manual called for smoke grenades then so be it. The more smoke the better because smoke is there to provide concealment.
No sane person can expect the OIC to test 120 or more men for allergy to smoke before the commencement of the training session. It would be bloody ridiculous. It would take the best part 2 hours assuming it took a minute per soldier.
i agree. good morning.
They threw more smoke grenade than allowed. That is negligence amounting to manslaughter.
Stick to the safety regulation then.
The parents would have settled if those responsible were punished.
You throw sufficient smoke grenades to provide the necessary concealment otherwise why bother in the first place.
When it comes to defending the nation, the effectiveness and realism of training determines how well prepared soldiers will be in the event of actual battle. Building an effective fighting force takes precedence over the lives of one or two individuals who may have a medical condition.
If training isn't effective, far more will die when it comes to the real thing and far more parents will be grieving the loss of their children.
If Singaporeans turn national service into a girl guides' weekend retreat out, we might as well do away with National Service and send the girls guides to war should the need arise.
In 1998, MINDEF commissioned NUS to conduct a study regarding safety issues on the use of smoke grenades. The study recommended and MINDEF accepted and implemented the recommendations i.e., that the minimum distance between each tossed smoke grenade should not be less than 20m and that the minimum distance between troops and any tossed smoke grenade be no less than 10m. The thick-skulled PC threw 3 times the number of smoke grenades permitted achieving "the more smoke the better" effect but breeching the TSR which resulted in the death of one soldier.
At least two fuckers should be hanged by their balls for this. The PC who threw the smoke grenades, Captain Najib Hanuk Bin Muhamad Jalal and Captain Chia Thye Siong, the Safety Officer. This Chia of a cunt should be further flogged after being hanged for having the cheek and the temerity to ask the mother to "move on". Both cunts were paid to do a job but failed to do so. It resulted in the needless death of a conscripted soldier. The fact that they were charged and convicted in a GCM means absolutely nothing as the type of punishments they received were not specified by MINDEF and that Chan Wing Kai chap. This strongly suggest that they were let off lightly.
despite online hoohah over the case,make no mistake, SAF will carry on these exercise and training.
just remind your NS boys not to be hero, low profile,serve the obligatory 2years,god bless, without accident. same misery for all sinkies boys
just remind your NS boys not to be hero, low profile,serve the obligatory 2years,god bless, without accident. same misery for all sinkies boys
This is the most nonsensical and ridiculous bullshit I've ever heard in my life. Try tossing a few smoke grenades during simulated battle and see whether anyone can achieve such precision.
If the officers worked to rule mindef would cease to function.
How silly. You said so yourself. Recommendations are not rules. They are but suggestions. Smoke grenades are meant to save lives by providing concealment. Obviously the more the better the concealment to save lives. Those NUS eggheads know nothing about fighting a real war unlike the SAF.
How silly. You said so yourself. Recommendations are not rules. They are but suggestions. Smoke grenades are meant to save lives by providing concealment. Obviously the more the better the concealment to save lives. Those NUS eggheads know nothing about fighting a real war unlike the SAF.
Just pay the Family 1 peanut will do, PAP can keep tje rest, all NS men wud be v happy knowing that their Family will be taken care off if they die while serving the Cuntry.
This coroner and general must be real fucking dumb fucks. How can it not be "unlikely to have been predicted"? It's no different from why a PSI reading of 300 or more of the smoke let off by the Indonesians can be predicted to be "hazardous" and 51-100 is predicted to be "moderate".
To help these two dumb fucks along, I have included a new column in the PSI table by NEA. This is an estimate of the intensity of the smoke released by the thrown smoke grenades during that exercise and is based on the statement made by Ng Eng Hen in Parliament in November 2012.
http://www.nea.gov.sg/anti-pollution-radiation-protection/air-pollution-control/psi/psi
PSI Value Air Quality Descriptor [Smoke Grenades Equivalent]
0 - 50 Good [If only 1 is thrown (half of what is allowed for that particular exercise based on TSR)]
51 - 100 Moderate [If only 2 are thrown (as permitted for that particular exercise based on TSR)]
101 - 200 Unhealthy [If 3 are thrown (not permitted by TSR for that particular exercise)]
201 - 300 Very unhealthy [If 4 are thrown (not permitted by TSR for that particular exercise)]
Above 300 Hazardous [If 5 or more are thrown (not permitted by TSR for that particular exercise; 6 were actually thrown)]
Once again, how can something so obvious, just like the annual smoke releases by the Indonesians, not be "unlikely to have been predicted"?
The dumb cunt of a General Chan Wing Khai also needs to learn to be less careless and sloppy. He needs to learn to check and double check any public statements he makes via Facebook or any medium for correctness and sensitivity. His statement made is erroneous, insensitive and conflicts with the statement made by his Minister (Ng Eng Hen) in Parliament in November 2012.
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Those who have served NS know that there are alot of cock ups in the army. Had a schoolmate who died during BMT. What is worse for his son, is that he was an only son.
Those officers who threw those "extras" should also be charged with wasting tax dollars. They failed to follow the rules & wasted $ & caused a death. Rules are there for a reason & these officers did not follow them.
NS used to be an obligation, after you did your time. you would forget about it & moved on with your life. Unfortunately there too many SAF scholars out there & they have to justify their existence & they started implementing all kinds of time wasters like IPPT, recalls,...
It's come to the point that is is causing deaths & difficulties to people who just want to get on with their lives. The majority of males don't want to serve NS, even the elites, also known as white horses don't want to waste their time in the army
The PAP is so desperate that they are now also forcing half-Sporeans to serve in the army. I know plenty of Sporeans who emigrated because they wanted to avoid reservist. Who can blame them
SOPs are meant to be adhered to Why have them in the first place?
If i may suggest, SOPs can be ignored only during war when the situation confronting you dont have an SOP to follow. In training, there must be 100% compliance.
End of the day, MINDEF just wants to avoid paying up. Lots of similar cases in the past. Settle this case, the rest will follow. That is what they wanna avoid.
If i may suggest, SOPs can be ignored only during war when the situation confronting you dont have an SOP to follow. In training, there must be 100% compliance.
End of the day, MINDEF just wants to avoid paying up. Lots of similar cases in the past. Settle this case, the rest will follow. That is what they wanna avoid.
How silly. You said so yourself. Recommendations are not rules. They are but suggestions. Smoke grenades are meant to save lives by providing concealment. Obviously the more the better the concealment to save lives. Those NUS eggheads know nothing about fighting a real war unlike the SAF.
Which part of what I stated, "the study recommended and MINDEF accepted and implemented the recommendations" did you not understand???
Once it was implemented, it was no longer a "recommendation". It becomes a rule and this rule was clearly spelled out in the TSR.
"In 1998, MINDEF commissioned NUS to conduct a study regarding safety issues on the use of smoke grenades. The study recommended and MINDEF accepted and implemented the recommendations i.e., that the minimum distance between each tossed smoke grenade should not be less than 20m and that the minimum distance between troops and any tossed smoke grenade be no less than 10m. The thick-skulled PC threw 3 times the number of smoke grenades permitted achieving "the more smoke the better" effect but breeching the TSR which resulted in the death of one soldier."
The safety distance specified in the TSR are based on "no less than". It's not something that must be exactly 10 or 20 metres. It should not be particularly difficult for anyone who has learned about measurement taught in the early years of primary schools or using their foot paces to measure distances as taught in navigation lessons in BMT, SISPEC or OCS.
What's the point of having safety rules if the officers don't follow them. There are important reasons behind the safety rules, that's why they are created.
The officers know the safety rules, yet they chose to break the rules and as a result caused the death of a very young NSF. There's no excuse for breaking the safety rules and caused a death, this should be a criminal offence and the officers should go to jail for their negligence, as well as pay compensation to the dead boy's parents.
The officers know the safety rules, yet they chose to break the rules and as a result caused the death of a very young NSF. There's no excuse for breaking the safety rules and caused a death, this should be a criminal offence and the officers should go to jail for their negligence, as well as pay compensation to the dead boy's parents.
To MID its not the training part that they cannot keep to SOP, its now the payout to NS peasant who died serving his Cuntry.
SAF responds to online debate on death of Private Dominique Sarron Lee
SAF personnel can, in fact, be charged or punished in criminal courts for committing rash and negligent acts, even during the course of their military duties, the post said.
In a bid to address misconceptions after the High Court threw out a civil suit against the SAF brought by Private Dominique Sarron Lee's family, Brigadier-General Chan Wing Kai, commander of the army's Training and Doctrine Command, said: "The Attorney-General's Chambers (AGC), not the SAF, decides if the evidence warrants this course of action."
Pte Lee died in 2012 after an allergic reaction to smoke grenades during a military exercise.
After the High Court's decision last Thursday (March 3), Pte Lee's mother, Felicia Seah, put up a Facebook post which triggered an outpouring of sympathy from the public. She called for more to be done to press charges against the defendants.
BG Chan said a Committee of Inquiry (COI) on the case was held in 2012 and the Coroner's Inquiry (CI) in 2013.
The coroner found that Pte Lee had "died from acute allergic reaction to zinc chloride due to inhalation of zinc chloride fumes". The coroner also found that this acute allergic reaction was "unlikely to have been predicted".
BG Chan said that as Pte Lee's acute allergic reaction to the smoke grenades thrown by the platoon commander was not reasonably foreseeable, no criminal charges were brought against the two officers.
He also pointed out that the coroner had noted that Pte Lee "had under played and under declared his asthmatic condition".
The two officers involved in the military exercise that resulted in Pte Lee's death did not face criminal charges, but they were punished according to military law, after being found guilty of negligent performance of lawful order or duty in 2013, said BG Chan. However, SAF did not specify what the punishment was.
While Lee's family were ordered to pay the costs of the latest law suit, BG Chan said that prior to this, the family had taken out a preaction discovery application and then they subsequently withdrew it. The court had awarded costs to Mindef, but Mindef had waived the legal costs, he said.
BG Chan also said Mindef and the SAF have been "extending help to Pte Lee's family throughout this period, and remain committed to assisting and providing support to the family".
"Since the incident, welfare grants have been disbursed, and an offer of compensation has been made to the family, based on the full extent allowed by the compensation legislation," he said.
While the compensation amounts were not disclosed, BG Chan said they are "generally two to four times that of amounts provided under the Work Injury Compensation Act for incidents arising from training and operations".
"Once again, the SAF offers our sincere condolences to the family of PTE Lee. The SAF values the life of every soldier and recognises that we are responsible for the sons of Singapore placed under our charge," said BG Chan.
"We will uphold safety standards while ensuring that we build a strong National Service force able to defend Singapore," he added
BG Chan will be a MG soon. Lalalalalalalala
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