Meeting at Speaker's Corner 18 Oct, 6-7 pm

[Zombie]

It does not matter if the whole world understands the word "mis-selling".
If you cannot prove your own case, you are not getting your money back.
It is just that simple.
And TKL is not hopeful that you are getting your money back.

 

[Ah Hai]

TOKYO - BARCLAYS said it would launch equity sales and research operations in Japan by hiring 100 people from Lehman Brothers.

Barclays, which bought the US business of bankrupt Lehman Brothers, has hired Mr Kazutoshi Ohkubo, who was head of equity sales at Lehman in Japan, to lead Barclays' equity sales operations, Barclays said on Tuesday.

The UK bank also hired Mr Koichiro Chiwata from Lehman to head equity research operations.

The move comes after Japan's Nomura Holdings, which outbid rivals to buy Lehman's Asian business, completed taking over the operations of Lehman in Asia, including Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, India and Australia.

Barclays has also hired strategists and analysts from Lehman, including chief strategist Hidenao Miyajima, Masahiro Maruo, who covers utilities stocks, banking analyst Junsuke Senoguchi, and Mikiya Yamada, an analyst for chemicals. -- THOMSON REUTERS

 

[Zombie]

TOKYO - BARCLAYS said it would launch equity sales and research operations in Japan by hiring 100 people from Lehman Brothers.

This information means nothing to the minibond investors.
Minibond's underlying assets are CDOs. The investors can recover some monies only if somebody takeover these CDOs.

 

[Ah Hai]

Tuesday, October 21, 2008
Volunteers to write statements of complaints
I wish to ask for volunteers to help the investors to write statements of complaints. Please meet at Speaker's Corner at 4.30 p.m. on Saturday 25 October. You will get a briefing on how to do this work. A form will be given to you to enter the particulars of the investors. We need volunteers to handle complaints in English and Chinese.

Please send your particulars (name, email, telephone) to Adrian Tan [email protected] for record. Thank you.
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 7:08 PM

 

[Ah Hai]

Tuesday, October 21, 2008
SCMP: Investors hit by Lehman collapse get papers they can't understand
South China Morning Post (Hong Kong) - Tuesday, October 21, 2008
Author: Joyce Man

Investors who purchased complex derivatives linked to the financial health of now-bankrupt US investment bank Lehman Brothers finally got their hands on documents on the investments' underlying assets yesterday - but could not make head or tail of them.

DBS Bank handed a dozen investors stacks of files and papers centimetres thick, filled with legal and financial jargon. The investors had asked for documents showing what assets backed their investments, hoping to determine how much value they retained.

They pored over the documents for hours. Connie Kwan, who bought HK$1.3 million in derivatives known as retail structured notes in the past two years, said she felt no one could explain the papers.

"They say they will calculate the value based on the underlying assets, but we can't tell what the underlying assets are from these documents," she said.

DBS Bank (Hong Kong) managing director William Kwok Yu-lut explained how they could calculate the assets' value using lists in the documents, but he could not say what the asset breakdown was.

The retail structured notes that DBS distributed were linked to credit events - such as bankruptcies, loan defaults or being forced to repay loans early - of "baskets" of companies. If any company defaulted, investors would redeem their principal minus the reduction in value of that company. Some baskets included Lehman, which filed for the biggest bankruptcy in US history last month.

Investors estimate that DBS distributed more than 30 series of notes to hundreds of customers.

Meanwhile, Secretary for Justice Wong Yan-lung told a Legislative Council panel meeting yesterday that the government would like to see banks accused of mis-selling another type of derivative - minibonds - resolve disputes with investors through mediation.

He said the disputes might be long and expensive if the cases were handled by courts. The government had made contact with mediation agencies, and it would take only "weeks" for them to provide mediation services.

 

[Ah Hai]

Wednesday, October 22, 2008
MAS push responsibility to Financial Institution
Dear Mr. Tan,

Being a investor of Minibonds, I got this feeling MAS is just trying to push all responsibility to the Financial Institution.

First, they suggest investors who feel that they have been mislead into buying those Lehman link product to file complaint at respective Financial Institution.

So now those investors will just file the complaint for the sake of filing, just with a hope of getting back their investment if the Minibonds were to be liquid off when come to the stage where there isn't any new swap counter party.

With a mixed of real complaint and fake complaint, the FI are certainly pressured on resolving it, maybe by ways of paying off the losses. Guess this is what all investor like me want in the end.

In the first place, this product is lodged and registered with MAS, so now they are saying they did not approve it. So I wonder why they call them governing body of the regulation?

MAS have said that they are looking at various possibilities of new swap counter party. So the deadline is on this Friday. How true are they doing it? When they know that even if there's no new swap counter party, end of the day the FI will have to be pressurized to pay up the loses in order to let all the saga end.

Is there any proof for investor to know that they are really various potential proposer? Or is it just covering up them that they are doing something about it.

P.S keep me as anonymous thanks.

Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 6:45 AM

 

[eeoror88]

Lose means lose already !!

When invest correctly, clap hands clap feet, when lose cry father, cry mother, blame neighbours, blame society and gahmen.

The one to blame are actually themselves since they are greedy for more interest and returns.

 

[Zombie]

In the first place, this product is lodged and registered with MAS, so now they are saying they did not approve it. So I wonder why they call them governing body of the regulation?

This person can write well, yet he cannot understand simply english on the front page of the pricing statement and prospectus of minibond?

 

[Zombie]

eeoror88

They are all in denial mode, thanks to TKL who blames almost everyone in the banking and finance industry, except the minibond investors.

 

[Ah Hai]

Tuesday, October 21, 2008
Lawyer: No obligation, no fee consultation
Hi Kin Lian,

I am organising meetings to see the investors at my law firm for no obligation no fee consultation. I will also pass you a list of the investors once I meet them.

The weekdays’ timeslots are from
4pm to 4.30pm
7pm to 7.30 pm
7.30pm to 8pm
8pm to 8.30pm

The Sunday special timeslots (at half hourly intervals) are from
2pm to 6pm
7pm to 9pm

Our law firm’s Lehman hotline to call is
(Office) 6557 2422
(Mobile)98456225.

Regards
Leonard Loo

LEONARD LOO & CO
Advocates & Solicitors
25 Tagore Lane #04-06
Singapore 787602 (opposite Thomson Used Car Centre)
Tel: (65) 6557 2422 Fax: (65) 6557 2022
Mobile : (65) 969 55694
Email: [email protected]
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 11:32 PM

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

eeoror88

They are all in denial mode, thanks to TKL who blames almost everyone in the banking and finance industry, except the minibond investors.

Dear Zombie,

The problem is, who is the biggest culprit here?

MAS. As a regulator, it has failed its duty in setting up a fair and leveled playground for retail investors.

I do agree with you that the only way ahead is class action lawsuit. But at this moment, with the anxiety of these people in wanting to get their money back and apparently, they still "TRUST" the government agency like MAS to "help" them, it is difficult to convince them of forking out more money to go for class action suit.

Mr. Tan is just doing a public service and of course, many people will speculate about his intention. To me, its the heart that matters. Even if he has intention of running for Presidential Election, I don't see what's the problem. I mean, people want to see opposition members to help Singaporeans and keep complaining about opposition members all sleeping only come out during elections, but yet, when we do get involved, people will say we are insincere, opportunistic...whatever. Then you must question yourself, what exactly do you want from opposition members or politicians?

Similarly, for an office holder like President, what are you looking for? A person who really cares for the citizens, look after their interests and stand up against perceived social injustice, or just some dummy that goes around shaking hand and taking photos?

If Mr. Tan KL is to stand for presidential election, he will have more than my verbal support. I will support him all the way with whatever I could help him in to run for presidential elections. The key is, we need political competition. We need good people with empathy, good heart and empathy for the citizens to contest in political positions... not just some "paper qualifications". Mr. Tan KL has both, "paper qualifications" as well as the intrinsic good nature to become a good candidate for presidential elections.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Zombie]

Mr Goh

If you want somebody with a good heart to be the president, try looking from the temples or the churches.

What makes you say that MAS failed to set up level playing field in this case? What do you think is most important element in level playing field?

 

[Ah Hai]

Wednesday, October 22, 2008
A good settlement?
Dear Mr Tan

I thought that it may be useful to let you know that I have just obtained a verbal offer from X Bank to buy back the Minibond investment (Series 2) that was sold me in 2006. The buyback price is (details deleted .....................).

The bank has requested that I not make this details public for now (.... as they have to sort out some other matters). I am writing to inform you of this to let you know that your actions have resulted in a positive outcome in my situtation. I hope this encourages you to continue your good work for the rest of those affected.

At the same time, I hope that you can (without revealing details of the offer made to me) stress to all affected parties to work closely with the banks concerned in reaching a settlement. I am concerned because I noticed from the comments in your blog that many are disillussioned and are now focusing their energy on the legal action option, rather than working with the banks for a resolution.

Back to my situation, I know that you are very busy with many emails, but if you could find the time, could I ask if there are any concerns that I should have or if there are implications to such a settlement proposed by X? Is it necessary to consult with a lawyer before deciding on whether to accept the settlement?

Once again, my heartfelt thanks for everything that you have done.

Regards

 

[Ah Hai]

Mis-selling: 'The fault lies not with individuals, but with management processes that encourage wrongful behaviour.'

ST MONEY editor Ignatius Low wrote a constructive article on Monday, "Tougher Action on Mis-selling". I would like to build on his thoughts and give a suggestion from a slightly different angle.

As someone who works in industrial-organisational psychology (specifically in the area of motivation), I wish to share that organisational reward systems can be powerful motivators of individual behaviour. Simply put: Individuals will do what they know they will be rewarded to do.

Suppose that a bank sets only monetary goals for their relationship managers - that is, within the next 12 months to sell X dollar amount of High Notes 5 - then any human psychology will very naturally focus on that goal. Goal-focused people may not see the ethical subtleties that accompany their actions.

The question to ask then, is whether or not banks set specific goals related to the ethical treatment of customers.

Suppose next a bank distributes bonuses, commissions and other monetary rewards according to how relationship managers perform at their goal targets of X amount of dollars; then you would understand that even the least goal-focused person by nature, would focus on that target. The question to ask next is whether or not banks reward employees for the ethical treatment of customers, or merely for selling enough High 5 Notes.

Depending on whether expectations of one, the other, or both are built into the reward systems, individual behaviours would greatly differ.

My point is that the fault lies not with individuals, but with management processes that encourage the wrong behaviour. As long as these reward processes remain, the same pitiful stories will be heard again and again. Hence, one way of ensuring that retirement funds are not jeopardised every time a recession hits is to redesign the banks' motivation levers so that individuals working within the system are motivated to do the right thing.

As employees, each relationship manager's actions and behaviour is shaped by organisational expectations. They may be at fault, but not entirely. The larger fault lies with the organisation for design flaws in their reward systems. Relationship managers are merely scapegoats whose motives are simple - draw my salary, meet my targets and get myself promoted. There is nothing wrong with that. We all do that.

What is more important is to examine the motives of the bank. Did these motives include ethics? While it is difficult to assess the motives of individuals because their minds are not open to scrutiny, the motives of organisations are relatively easier to evaluate. One need only examine the reward systems put in place to coordinate the direction, intensity and persistence of employees. If an audit of the banks' reward systems reveal only monetary targets and no ethical targets, then the motives of the bank are clear. Profit to the exclusion of morals.

Madam Kay Ren Tse

http://www.straitstimes.com/ST+Forum/Online+Story/STIStory_293118.html

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Mr Goh

If you want somebody with a good heart to be the president, try looking from the temples or the churches.

What makes you say that MAS failed to set up level playing field in this case? What do you think is most important element in level playing field?

Dear Zombie,

Do you know why in the whole world, only Singapore and Hong Kong aunties and uncles kena this Minibond thing?

All other countries in the world do not have saving banks selling these high risk products (oh yeah, maybe some argue its "medium low risk") to their clients. Only investment banks with qualified wealth managers did that.

This is the result of the role of regulations and controls. When a person walk into a bank to put money into fixed deposits, he is going into a place with perceived low risk environment (banks) to entrust his hard earn money into the bank. If he does not trust this bank, he would not be there in the first place. Thus, to allow banks, a perceive low risk entity with risk adverse clients to sell high risk financial instruments, it is itself a lapse of regulatory role.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Mr Goh

If you want somebody with a good heart to be the president, try looking from the temples or the churches.

BTW, Zombie,

I am a realistic person. I am not going to ask for Saints to be politicians, be it MPs, Ministers or Presidents. Just a decent guy will do, who have empathy and upright character.

I am not like someone who keep humming on his search for "Philosopher King" and deny the necessity of balanced political system with checks and balances. Nope. I understand fully the imperfectness of human kind and that is why we will need a democratic system in the very first place.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[kuntakinte]

GMS,

Let's get this straight, MAS is not going to give a damn whether these ill-informed or smart investors got their fingers burnt or not. To MAS, it is very straightforward, when emotions are high, all jumped into it. When you are burnt, that is your own funeral.

In any case, I dun believe in MAS and its pappies when they mentioned about extending their help to lowly educated or uneducated investors. Investment is all about common sense and if greeds kick in, one has to answer for it. PERIOD. My thoughts to those who get burnt, be good losers, dun be sore losers !!

Next, TKL. Like Francis Seow, TKL was part of the system. Why someone who was part of the system with such "good heart or intention" to go against the system ? Am I missing something here ?

Would you trust a traitor to be your close ally ?

Dear Zombie,

The problem is, who is the biggest culprit here?

MAS. As a regulator, it has failed its duty in setting up a fair and leveled playground for retail investors.

I do agree with you that the only way ahead is class action lawsuit. But at this moment, with the anxiety of these people in wanting to get their money back and apparently, they still "TRUST" the government agency like MAS to "help" them, it is difficult to convince them of forking out more money to go for class action suit.

Mr. Tan is just doing a public service and of course, many people will speculate about his intention. To me, its the heart that matters. Even if he has intention of running for Presidential Election, I don't see what's the problem. I mean, people want to see opposition members to help Singaporeans and keep complaining about opposition members all sleeping only come out during elections, but yet, when we do get involved, people will say we are insincere, opportunistic...whatever. Then you must question yourself, what exactly do you want from opposition members or politicians?

Similarly, for an office holder like President, what are you looking for? A person who really cares for the citizens, look after their interests and stand up against perceived social injustice, or just some dummy that goes around shaking hand and taking photos?

If Mr. Tan KL is to stand for presidential election, he will have more than my verbal support. I will support him all the way with whatever I could help him in to run for presidential elections. The key is, we need political competition. We need good people with empathy, good heart and empathy for the citizens to contest in political positions... not just some "paper qualifications". Mr. Tan KL has both, "paper qualifications" as well as the intrinsic good nature to become a good candidate for presidential elections.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Lumpar]

GMS,

Let's get this straight, MAS is not going to give a damn whether these ill-informed or smart investors got their fingers burnt or not. To MAS, it is very straightforward, when emotions are high, all jumped into it. When you are burnt, that is your own funeral.

In any case, I dun believe in MAS and its pappies when they mentioned about extending their help to lowly educated or uneducated investors. Investment is all about common sense and if greeds kick in, one has to answer for it. PERIOD. My thoughts to those who get burnt, be good losers, dun be sore losers !!

Next, TKL. Like Francis Seow, TKL was part of the system. Why someone who was part of the system with such "good heart or intention" to go against the system ? Am I missing something here ?

Would you trust a traitor to be your close ally ?

Proposals received from financial institutions on Lehman Minibond

SINGAPORE: The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) says two international financial institutions licensed to operate in Singapore have submitted proposals to restructure the Lehman minibonds notes so that they can run till maturity.

This is expected to go some way in helping investors recover some of their capital.

Over 8,000 investors have sunk more than S$500 million into the minibonds programme.

It's unknown at this point how much money they could recover.

MAS says the two proposals are still confidential at this stage and the financial institutions are still finalising details and seeking the necessary agreements.

It adds that any commercially viable proposal should also provide an exit option for investors who do not wish to hold on to the notes.

MAS says an independent financial adviser will be appointed within a week to assess the merits of the proposals.

It will also help investors in understanding the options available to them.

Investors will be kept informed of the review process and notified once the proposals are finalised.

- CNA/ir

 

[Zombie]

Do you know why in the whole world, only Singapore and Hong Kong aunties and uncles kena this Minibond thing?

Do you know you are wrong? Credit derivative products like minibond are sold in many parts of the world. You can find them in USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Holland etc etc, as far as 5 years back. And yes, they retail to ang moh ah pek and ah mah investors.

And btw, even if Singapore is the only place in the entire universe that sells minibond to uncles and aunties, that does not mean there is no level playing field for these retail investors.

 

[Zombie]

deny the necessity of balanced political system with checks and balances.

A person who anyhow blame, is a person who anyhow check and anyhow balance, get it?