Meeting at Speaker's Corner 18 Oct, 6-7 pm

[Ah Hai]

Re: Clash of events at Speakers Corner on 29 November

Monday, December 01, 2008
Clash of events at Speakers Corner on 29 November
Dear Mr. Tan,

Do you think that the Indian cultural event held on 29 November at Hong Lim Park was arranged to make it difficult for you to use Speaker's Corner?

REPLY

I do not think so. This type of event probably takes a few months to organise. If anyone is suspicious, perhaps you can check the facts for me.

It appears that Hong Lim Park is not used exclusively for Speaker's Corner. In the future, I will check if there are competing events on Saturdays. I am also considering to move my regular meeting at Speaker's Corner to Wednesday at 6 p.m. There is less likelihood of a clash of events during the weekdays.
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 8:19 AM

15 Comments

singaporeshortstories.blogspot.com said...

i agree with Mr Tan. Events take some time to conceptualise and plan.

10:31 AM
Blogger Chan J C said...

Either Sat 5pm or Wed 6pm, we will support you, Mr. Tan

Best regards

11:00 AM
Blogger Wayangnologist said...

Under what circumstances would an application for open talk, ie at Hong Lim, risk getting turned down or postponed or whatever

there must be some sort of markers or parameters, as long as that list is available, then one can literally anticipate ALL the possible hurdles to getting the application thru and plan well ahead

in military talk, its not the line of tanks in front, its the Satellites above

12:52 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But some people who work till 6pm may not be able to come in time on Wed.

LPC

1:12 PM
Anonymous Ed said...

Weekdays are difficult as my work is very hectic.

Any time during weekends are better for me.

1:26 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I still prefer currently at Saturday 5pm as it will impossible for me to come on weekdays due to work.

2:33 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Tan,

Saturday at about 5.00 pm is a good day and time as most people would be free or have finished work by then.

Please do nto shift the timing to a weekday as many people like myself may not be able to attend the talk.

Thank you.
JL

2:59 PM
Blogger Wayangnologist said...

Can anyone share any info if there will be other possible clashes of events on other dates of meeting/speech projected as at current

Is there a way to find out how do these clashing events come about and at which point and when they come up?

Surely even the most accessed phone booth right smack middle of Orchard Road would not be in use ALL THE TIME LAST MIN? And this is Hong Lim Park we talking about

I dont think I will be the ONLY surprised party, if theres suddenly whole series of carnivals and family days all packed right there til 2080

4:13 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have problem attending week days as well. I think we can get bigger participation on the usual sat

4:16 PM
Anonymous Just another sampan rider said...

Let's face it, the money from investing these products are all gone. No use pointing fingers at the FIs for misrepresenting and expect them to cough out the money to compensate the investors.

The money from these structured products have already been used to fill the big hole in the US and never gonna come back. I agree that the FIs are at fault for misleading the investors, but how on earth are the FIs gonna squeeze out the money to compensate each and every one of them? If these products have been properly regulated, would there be misrepresentation? But people don't dare to point fingers at MAS, so they turn and point their fingers at the FIs.

Just look at how our hardearned money was handled; Temasek Holdings making investments in worthless companies, the Tanjong Pagar & Punggol-Pasir Ris GRCs investing in the minibond. After these investments failed, did the responsible parties make any apologies? Instead, they just kept quiet, cos sooner or later the fire will die down by itself.

We normal citizens are like taking the sampan while they are on a first class luxury yacht. When our sampan capsized, they ask us paddle hard to avoid drowning. They don't care whether you are young, old, sickly or disabled. They will just look on, enjoying their cavier and sipping their champagne and perhaps make occasional encouragement. Sorry hor, the floats onboard are only for their own use in case of emergency. Not happy?? There's nothing we can do except continue to paddle if not we will just drown and die.

If high pay = no corruption then it means us citizens also have to have high pay, no? Private sector also have chances of corruption right?

4:28 PM
Blogger Chan J C said...

"Let's face it, the money from investing these products are all gone. No use pointing fingers at the FIs for misrepresenting and expect them to cough out the money to compensate the investors."

Look into the eyes of those who has loss sleeps and has their health impacted and says what you have just said...


"The money from these structured products have already been used to fill the big hole in the US and never gonna come back. I agree that the FIs are at fault for misleading the investors, but how on earth are the FIs gonna squeeze out the money to compensate each and every one of them? If these products have been properly regulated, would there be misrepresentation? But people don't dare to point fingers at MAS, so they turn and point their fingers at the FIs."

I will pardon you if you are not a S'porean and so I hereby share with you our Pledge...

"We, the citizens of Singapore
Pledge ourselves as one united people
Regardless of race, language or religion
To build a democratic society
Based on justice and equality
So as to achieve happiness, prosperity & progress for our nation"

So.. we have to fight for justice and it is time for our government to show us what justice is IF they want the nation to progress together

4:41 PM
Anonymous Just another sampan rider said...

Dear Mr Chan,

Yes, it's true that those people have lost their hardearned money, and i truly sympathise with them. they may have spend years and maybe decades to save this amount of money and now it's all gone. But please open your eyes WIDE and look at what has been done so far.

It's naive of you to think that there is justice. If there is, would there be a need for Mr Tan to organise a meeting each week at the Speaker's Corner? If there is justice, would Mr Tan need to arrange for petitions to be signed and submitted but up till now there's no news? Shouldn't this be the job of MAS? Organising meetings with each and every investor and find out how they have been mislead into buying these products and negotiating with the FIs for the appropriate amount of compensation???

In fact you are so wrong, I've recited the Singapore Pledge for more than 10 years. Are we truly democratic? If there's equality, then why some people can command a $3 million salary after paycut while the others like you and me fear about losing our jobs in this bad economy?

5:07 PM
Anonymous Just another sampan rider said...

Mr Chan, in any case, please look at both sides of the coin. The investors are losing sleep and appetite over their loss, but if the FIs were to compensate in full to each and every investor, it would also mean that there's a chance that they would go bust or have to retrench large amount of employees. This in turn drags down our economy.

Don't tell me that DBS retrenching 900 employees has nothing to do with this saga. Aren't those employees innocent too? Aren't they losing sleep and appetite too? How are they gonna find a job in this bad economy?

5:17 PM
Blogger Wayangnologist said...

The retrenchments by the FIs have a timely dual effect. first off they wanted to do so. second it paint the perfect picture that hey they too are in trouble. Exactly the image they wanted to project it.

But yes, pledge or no pledge, dubious legal system or no dubious legal system, the monies are goner.
They wont compensate becos that opens a whole series of Pandora Boxes on refunds, past, present, Future!!

Whatever happen next now is just the autopsy of how it all went. WHO that all went to

5:35 PM
Blogger Tan Kin Lian said...

The majority of the commentators prefer to continue with the meeting on Saturdays at 5 p.m. I will keep to this day and time. We will accept some clash of events.

6:21 PM

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: Clash of events at Speakers Corner on 29 November

Monday, December 01, 2008
Legal action against the Issuers and Distributors
If the noteholders take legal action against the issuers and/or distributors of the credit linked notes and win the case, it is possible to get the contracts rescinded and the noteholders will receive a full refund of the invested money.

I heve spoken to several lawyers. They advised that the noteholders have a good case against the issuers and/or distributors on the following grounds:

1) There are possible misrepresentations, omissions and inconsistencies in the prospectus and pricing documents. Under the principle of "contract of adhesion", these inconsistencies will be interpreted against the financial institutions as they provided the legal wordings to the contracts.
2) The documents require more than 1 day to read and understand, even for an educated and financially savvy person. How is it possible for the securities to be sold over the counter to an ordinary layman withon one hour?

3) The actual risks of these securities clearly do not fit the risk profile of the people that are marketed to. This is sufficient grounds for the contracts to be rescinded.

I will be talking to two or three senior lawyers to go through the legal documents and the above arguments. If we find sufficient evidence, we can get the written opionion from a Queens Counsel or other suitable experts. This will strengthen the case and help to get the noteholders to join a class action.

I will find someone to fund the cost of the expert legal opinion, so that the noteholders do not need to wrry about this matter now. If the case proceed, those joining the class action can reimburse this cost.

I am still keen to avoid a costly legal battle and have a negotiated settlement with the financial institutions. I hope that they will come forward to offer a fair compensation to the notebolders, so that this matter does not need to be taken to the courts.
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 11:32 AM

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: Clash of events at Speakers Corner on 29 November

Monday, December 01, 2008
Appeal to the President of Singapore
Dear Mr. Tan,

The government is also not supportive to the investors, even sacrifice the Town Councils $16 millions. Shall we appeal to The President of Singapore?

We conduct another petition which include the age of the investors, the amount invested and also the % of the investment compare to all their saving. To include the age is to let every Singaporeans and especially the government knows that those who are above age of 45 may not have another 20 or 30 years to accumulate the same amount of saving again. The % is to show every Singaporeans and especially the government that how important these amount of money is to us.

The few ten thousands that we have invested, though this maybe some people 1 or 2 months salary or the few hundred thousands that we have invested, though this maybe just a peanut to some people, BUT they are all accumulated by us, cents by cents, over many years of hard work and sweats.

The situation now is seems to be only the top down instruction from MAS/Govt will make FIs to compensate. These CDOs related credit –linked investments amounted to billions, it is definitely very difficult for the FIs to settle the compensation by themselves. (There may be more products bust.)

The MAS should hold some responsibility (approving these products) and thus the government should step in.

LK

REPLY
I wish to invite volunteers to step forward and lead this project. I need volunteers who are convinced that this is worth the effort.

I will not be able to handle this additional project, as I already have too many things to do.
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 1:54 PM
6 comments:

Wayangnologist said...

Makes no difference.


Think carefully about our President who is where he is now today.
2:47 PM
Anonymous said...

Will our President have the time to look into this, I mean his schedule is already very busy with attending charity tea parties, holding babies and smiling for the ST photographers ?
3:00 PM
Wayangnologist said...

Thats not fair really




You missed the overseas trips and hotel stays every now and then
3:49 PM
Anonymous said...

There is a smiling picture of him at Science Centre, just appeal to this picture and you will get the same effect.

These petitions to government and government-linked people will all be useless. Let's just go ahead and sue. I rather drag all down than swallow the cheated money on my own.
4:09 PM
Wayangnologist said...

Trust me, Truth hurts.

At this current stage without clearcut evidence or outright support from authorities, I dont think anyone at this point has the ability or the resources to drag anyone down.

Thats just a nice illusion.
4:39 PM
Anonymous said...

Wayangnologist,

I wish you will just shut up and get out of this blog to go back to yours which no one is interested.

Wait till we start the class suit and you can see if we investors have the means to drag the banks/bokerages down.
6:03 PM

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: Clash of events at Speakers Corner on 29 November

Monday, December 01, 2008
Thoughts for the Day - Ho Cheow Seng

The form of law which I propose would be as follows: In a state which is desirous of being saved from the greatest of all plagues -- not faction, but rather distraction -- there should exist among the citizens neither extreme poverty nor, again, excessive wealth, for both are productive of great evil . . . Now the legislator should determine what is to be the limit of poverty or of wealth.": Plato (427-347 B.C.):

By 'distraction' Plato means that the 'citizens' are seduced by matters of no real importance so as to lose focus on issues that are crucial to their real well-being.
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 2:01 PM
2 comments:

Wayangnologist said...

"By 'distraction' Plato means that the 'citizens' are seduced by matters of no real importance so as to lose focus on issues that are crucial to their real well-being."

honestly?


Yes THATS the primary intent of Law when it was thought up
2:44 PM
Anonymous said...

A case in point. The most distracting thing i can see happening is this blatant use of public funds to "educate" the public on how to be "gracious" in cleaning up the tables at the food courts by ourselves.
Honestly i think this exercise is wasting time and money. A food court has full time employees to manage the place. What is wrong with leaving plates after eating and not cleaning up ourselves to the tables reflect our face.

So long as one doesnt' intentionally vomit on the table of course, the average food court diner doesnt do that even.

It's like at a Restaurant, there's waiters and cleaners to clear the table. Why are we singaporeans accused of being bad again, we are sick of being beaten up endlessly by the govertnment, it is always our fault, never theirs. What an un-gracious government.

REX

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: Clash of events at Speakers Corner on 29 November

Monday, December 01, 2008
Consumer speak against Opt Out Sales Tactics
Dear Mr. Tan,

I like to tell you about my personal experience concerning the practice of opt-out Sales Tactics.

Recently, I upgraded my mobile hand-phone with a leading local telecommunication provider.
I have been a loyal customer of this provider for more than 12 years and have been upgrading my phones at each regular cycle of 2 years.

This time round, I noticed that since the upgrading I have been receiving a barrage of SMS such as Gaming results, CNA news flash , ringtones etc.

After this recent financial fiasco, of which I am a victim of the MiniBond mis-selling, I am more wiser and call up the Service Provider hotline representative.

I was told these SMS messages form part of the upgrading contractual package and will be charged at $xxx after the 30th day from purchased date, unless I opt-out during this period.

Further, I was told by this representative that the Provider shop sales person has made this fact known to me during the sales. It was not made known to me ! Of course like the MInibond, I was made to sign some documents, which was quit routine like the previous upgrading I had.

I like to draw some parallel in this episode to the MiniBond selling procedure. Sales people did not disclosed all hidden costs and risks to their customer but only emphasis the unique selling point.

Mr Tan, I Fully support your efforts in educating the public and getting the authorities to review and investigate into the current selling procedures of these Institutions. These Institutions have become more profit focus and lose touch with their loyal customers (we placed too much trust in them) over the years.

In the name of efficiency, Institutions seems to heading this path of “Express Sales “ with fine prints embedded in the contract. Some Day our Life may also be opt-out !

Martho2008

REPLY
I suggest that you bring this matter to the Consumer Association of Singapore , www.case.org.sg. They will be able to act on this matter more effecitively than me.
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 2:09 PM

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: Clash of events at Speakers Corner on 29 November

Monday, December 01, 2008
Seek help from embassies
Dear Mr. Tan KL,

You have been advising the victims to seek the help of their respective MPs, but this is more suitable for citizens only. I doubt these MPs would bother about PRs/non-citizens when they are so indifferent towards their own citizens. Perhaps the non-citizens could try to seek the help from their respective embassy.

I'm really disappointed with the way X bank is handling the claims, very unfair, indifferent and high handed.

Things would be very different if it happens in M'sia. The press and the MPs, particularly the opposition will be assisting the helpless victims. The Malaysians just like the HK, Thais and Indonesia or even Filipino will fight for their rights and will not allow banks to cheat them of even RM$1 k not to mention S$100k!

Two months have passed and the banks and MAS are still so indifferent and ignore the plight and traumatic experience of the victims who have lost their hard-earned savings. It is sad that there is no compassion shown and instead abuses have been hurled at the helpless victims.

Notwithstanding the indifference shown by the relevant parties concerned and despite criticism and sarcastic remarks, you have out of compassion come out to do the right thing in helping the helpless victims, a true hero indeed.

I notice that some of the victims have lost faith, stamina after the heartless standard rejection letters. Please tell them not to give up and be more resilient and fight for your rights until they do the right thing i.e. compensate the victims their hard-earned savings of which they have been cheated!

tkh
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 5:10 PM

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: Clash of events at Speakers Corner on 29 November

Monday, December 01, 2008
Investors compensated in Belgium?

Hi Kin Lian,

I'm a former lawyer from Singapore now residing in Brussels. I have closely followed the activities with regards to the Lehman Brothers saga in Singapore. I have attached an article from a news site in Belgium with regards to this matter to demonstrate how this matter is being handled over here. Keep up the good work.

Sat 29/11/08
Angry clients of Citibank and Deutsche Bank demonstrated in Brussels this afternoon. They first marched to the headquarters of Deutsche Bank in Brussels, and then to Citibank. The demonstrators are demanding compensation for the money they lost due to the bankruptcy of the American Lehman Brothers.

According to the Citibank and Deutsche Bank clients they had not been aware that there was a risk for their money as well when Lehman Brothers went bust. Apparently Citibank and Deutsche bank sold investments to their clients that were managed by Lehman Brothers. The clients say they were not informed of the risk. When the American bank went bankrupt, Belgian clients also lost their money. They want Deutsche Bank and Citibank to reimburse their loss in full. The pressure on Deutsche Bank and Citibank is rising especially because a number of other banks who had sold their clients Lehman Brothers investments such as Fortis, Ethias and Swiss Life have guaranteed the capital of their clients. In the meantime Deutsche Bank has said that there will be compensation for clients whose portfolios were composed largely of investments with Lehman Brothers.

A delegation of the demonstrators was received by Economy Minister Vincent Van Quickenborne. His inspection team also suspects deceit. Minister Van Quixkznborne: "Misleading advertising violates legislation on trade practices. The question is whether the people, when they bought these products, if they were properly informed about the possible risks.

There was talk of capital guarantee- 100% and it then it turned out that
1) it was a product that was not from the same bank they bought it from; and
2) afterwards it also turned out to be a bank that was vulnerable to problems."

Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 5:57 PM

 

[Ah Hai]

8 Comments

Wayangnologist said...

Whatever happen in any other location or country in the world does not concern what happen here, or will happen here. These are separate matters, at best for reference.

Second, the case mentioned there seems to state that a Central or Primary Bank or FI, or perhaps a couple of such Top Tier entities feel pressures for compensation from OTHER BANKS. Becos these other banks sold 'toxic' products and are facing pressures from their clients.

This will contrast sharply from the cases here (Asia), as the FIs here are directly responsible to the end clients. The single and sole primary entity they can hold responsible and accountable to them in turn seems to be that very Mother Entity which as mentioned in the other discussions, is mired in bankruptcry proceedings - Lehmen.

If the above understanding is correct, then what the Europe consumers are fortunate to have is for their banks to have another layer of instituitions for them to sue for compensation on their behalf. There is no such safety net for the Asian counterparts.

Meaning every cent compensated here will have to come out of the local FIs pockets.

And since their 'creditors' are ordinary day folks with limited means, coupled with a less than er 'associative' system of authoritative proceedings, all the more they dont see any urgent need to relinguish THEIR POCKETS.

There, intercontinental puzzle solved.

7:43 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Am really glad to see this message of lawyer. You have given Tan and the investors great support and encouragement.

I hope you will be able to give advices here.

many thanks

LPC

7:49 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

European ministers are elected and paid to protect people. SOme place, ministers add salt on your wound and slam your face.
Cannot demo, cannot marching, can gather at corner of the park and listen to talks.
Open our eyes, bunch of FXXX american so call bankers are cooking up with local bankers some alread resigned and left for NEW YORK, and yet all RMs and FIs are bearing the Shiiit from the creative products, where got logic. It is time the GOVT stand up and nail the original sellers of this TOXIC CDOS. afterall, Old power had gone, BUSH is nobody now. OBAMA is a sensible man, nailing the crook and jail them in JURONG to teach them a lesson not cheat in Singapore.

Otherwise, everyone in SEA just puik puik...

8:30 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks to Wayangnologist's encouragement and advice for investors in Asia to use same approach as those happening in other nations. He is sending a message to read between his lines.

Gong

9:33 PM
Blogger ym said...

Mr Tan, wanted to share this passage i read from a book called "America's Great Depression" with you and readers of your blog.. Note the word used by Rothbard to describe fractional-reserve banking ie FRADULENT...

"...Instead of preventing inflation by prohibiting fractional-reserve banking as fradulent, governments have uniformly moved in the opposite direction, and have step-by-step removed free-market checks to the bank credit expansion, at the same time putting themselves in a position to direct the inflation...."

Murray Rothbard 1963

9:38 PM
Blogger Wayangnologist said...

Gong 9:33 PM

Glad you got my meaning, Gong.

9:46 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If other countries can resolve these in a satisfactory manner, then this will add pressure on Singapore to do the same. This will be good for the investors.

Unless of course PAP still think ignoring the victims is still OK because they (PAP) have absolute control by default. Even if the voices grow louder, the rallies bigger but these will make no difference to their political and institutional power. LKY knows best how to deal with such things and hence still a valuable asset despite advanced age of 85 years and a weakening heart.

9:56 PM
Blogger Concerned said...

As far as the sale of credit linked note is concerned, MAS is in limbo.
Why? Why? Why?

Investors please give some thoughts to it. Do some detective thinking.

What are rumours may turn out to be the true.

11:52 PM

 

[Ah Hai]

Tuesday, December 02, 2008 Suffering from depression and mental illness

Mr. Tan.

First of all, I would like to thank you for helping all the helpless victims to voice up. Till now, no MPs have really initiated to try to help. I believe majority of the MPs also knew that this is a clear cut misled case but dare not bring up in the Parliament because they afraid that their rice bowl may get broken.

“Yes” man is “Safe” man. Do we want to have such leaders? I was at the Speakers corner yesterday. I spoke to some of the victims who had seen their MPs. They told me that they were again lectured by their MPs “you went in with your eyes open”.

My dear MPs and Minister, you are leaders with high profile. Please go through the brochure and prospectus and honestly tell the public whether you understand such complicated product with hidden toxic ingredients for every item. Oh! Sorry, maybe, you don’t have to read it since you are rich enough to get your lawyer to go through for you.

Please also do a survey. Get the graduates who have never invested to look at the brochure and prospectus whether they understand every single item. I suggest that our government should also get the RC members to go through and get them to feedback whether if they understand.

All the while, I have full faith in our Singapore government. Just like the China milk products case where it contains melamine that killed many lives, immediate action was taken. However, for such case, our government may think that immediate action is not required because it will not cause live and death and can take their time to resolve the issue. They have oversight the consequences and seriousness.

Many Singaporeans were already suffering from depression and mental illnesses due to sleepless night as all their life (coffin) saving is already gone. Mind them, waiting to die is worse then immediate death.

Even the financial experts already said the products are too complicated and it should not be sold. The toxins are all hidden in the ingredients. I believe MAS should also agree with it now. To my conclusion, I believe MAS is also under pressure and have not guts to admit their overlooking and allowing of such complicated toxic product to be sold in by the FIs in Singapore.

T
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 6:26 AM

 

[Zombie]

Re: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 Suffering from depression and mental illness

Get the graduates who have never invested to look at the brochure and prospectus whether they understand every single item.

Don't know what were given, and yet swallowed everything?

They should be :oIo:

 

[Ah Hai]

David Marshall in 1994

Tuesday, December 02, 2008
David Marshall in 1994
Dear Mr. Tan,
Please post this story. Thanks.
tkh

DAVID MARSHALL SAID IN 1994
I've got nothing against money. I'd like to have money myself! I'd like to have a house and a garden and dogs and a car and a chauffeur but, look, I've got a flat. I've got a swimming pool attached to the flat. I've not even got a car but I use taxis. I have a dignified way of life without being wealthy.

I don't see the necessity of owning a Mercedes-Benz and a swimming pool and a couple of mistresses. I think we've got our values all wrong.

You know $96,000 a month for a Prime Minister and $60,000 a month for a minister. What the hell do you do with all that money? You can't eat it! What do you do with it? Your children don't need all that money.

My children have had the best of education. In fact, I'm very proud of them. One of them is a senior registrar to two major hospitals in Oxford. Another of them is a consultant in European law to the Securities and Investment Board in the United Kingdom. They've had their education. There are no complaints.

I never earned $60,000 a month or $90,000 a month. When I was Chief Minister, I earned $8,000 a month. Look, what is happening today is we are encouraged to and are becoming worshippers of the Golden Calf.

We have lost sight of the joy and excitement of public service, helping our fellow men. The joy and excitement of seeking and understanding of the joy of the miracle of the living the duty and the grandeur. We have lost taste for heroic action in the service of our people.

We have become good bourgeois seeking comfort, security. It's like seeking a crystal coffin and being fed by intravenous injections through pipes in the crystal coffin; crystal coffins stuck with certificates of your pragmatic abilities.
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 2:17 PM

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: David Marshall in 1994

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

Money is good. Money is also evil.
When it becomes more evil than good, it becomes a problem.

So let money do more good than evil but it is not always possible when it is beyond control due to human greed, selfishness and the exploitation of the weak and defenceless.
2:56 PM
Anonymous said...

The incidence let us realize this Gov is not the same one as before.
Time has passed. People have changed. Priorities have shifted. Hearts are stiff …
Are Ministers, MPs needed to be told of what were happening when petitions were submitted, when Hong Lim Gathering were held and when experts have commented the product in the Press?
The Gov had made a mistake to allow the product to be sold to public in such a manner. But would they want to admit it?
2:58 PM
A Tan said...

He earned $8,000 a month in the mid 1950s.

A bungalow hse in Frankel Estate (Siglap area) was abt S$30,000 (high side).

So he could buy 3.2 hses there on a yearly salary.

Say a minister today gets S$2 mill. He can buy maybe one hse in same area in one yr.
3:44 PM
Monsoon said...

Our leaders are political and business leaders not moral leaders, so we cannot expect them to behave as such. Just treat them like other professional people, no need to talk about emotion, respect or "kam cheng" or relationship. Pay them what they want and make them accountable, if they do not perform, just get rid of them through our election, at least that's what theoretically can happen.
3:48 PM
Anonymous said...

David Marshall needs to re-make his comment now, if he is still alive.
Today, our Prime Minister is earning around S$300,000 per month and our ministers are earning around S$150,000 per month.
4:00 PM
Wayangnologist said...

No wonder Hes greatly respected, he has a way with words.

i agreed with 3.44pm and in some way to 4.00pm. True, salaries back in those days are even more outrageous compared to today, but also True, times has changed.

But words were still words, at the end of the day what the FIs do, what the authorities do today is still today matter, nothing to do with passionate speeches.
4:16 PM
Anonymous said...

The numbers given in the Posting are illustrative only, of course they can be updated to reflect today's sustenance level pricings.
The main point of the argument is "what you gonna do with so much money, you can't eat it."what a simple but smart insight!
In true fact, at today's prices, if you have about $3m in your account (cash or properties), and there is some amount of rental income or others, that's enough for you and your family actually. What to do with $20, 50 100 million like what the ministers have? I can only think of ONE answer.
Prepare to Migrate. Yes that's it.
They amass money so that they can run away from this country. That's why. No more david marshall real heroes anymore. Every man for himself. What a stupid life.
REX
5:06 PM
Anonymous said...

ANIMAL FARM by George Owell

The Seven Commandments, Animal Farm's original Constitution
Whatever goes on two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes on four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.

The Seven Commandments, after the pigs' "revisions"
"Four legs good, two legs better!"
No animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets.
No animal shall drink alcohol to excess.
No animal shall kill any other animal without cause.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

sigh ...
when the top is not straight , the BELOW WILL BE CROOKED .
7:31 PM
Anonymous said...

I wonder whether the figures of $300,000 pm or $150,000 pm are true indicators. I have read news of one GLC boss earning between $4 million and $5 million pa and that would translate into an income exceeding $300,000 pm. Maybe, there are other GLC bosses earning around the $4/5 million mark pa. GLC bosses are PAP people. Why should the PM, a person at/near the top of the PAP cadre, be earning less than those below him, in terms of party seniority? The PM's post, after all, carries far more responsibilities and perhaps requires far greater skills than the post of chairmanship of any GLC.
7:49 PM
Anonymous said...

My late mum told me:

Remember who you are or what you are, with all the $$$millions, you cannot bring to your grave!.....as the saying that in life, we came with nothing (naked) and we must return with nothing (naked)...
REMINDER!......AMEN
7:56 PM
Anonymous said...

Is David Marshall's $8000 per month salary in the 50s typo error?

Maybe it was $800 per month.

I remember in the 60s and early 70s, even $150-$200 per month can raise a family.
7:59 PM
Anonymous said...

After reading some of the Wayangologist's postings, I concluded :

Wayangnologist is nice to point out some of the cruel facts, and some of us (or most of us) here are not prepared to accept them. Or at least we want to change the way things work for goodness sake.

Most of us here are :
1) "dissecting" the matter in different ways,
2) using different analogies for the ease of understanding, for different groups of people, either from different educational levels or different degrees of understanding to the current issue ... etc
3) I believe most of us are aware of what Wayangnologist is saying, but we want to fight for a change. And we want to voice out loud to as many angles as we can. We want to be HEARD.
At the very least, we want to be heard by more people, people like Mr. Tan Kin Lian.
In that I mean, we believe we need more people like Mr. Tan Kin Lian to join in the "struggle".
It is very hard for Mr. Tan alone to handle this matter or to lead the distressed ones to brightness.

I believe one should cherish input from all and let's take them as extra info and data to assist our navigation.
With a better look at the bigger picture, we can avoid "ice-bergs" and being lost.
And at times we need critical comments to check our blind spots.

Last but not least, I believe Mr. Tan Kin Lian promote the freedom of speech in his blog, as long as they are matured, responsible, sensible and constructive.

I know Wanyangnologist has good intention right from the very beginning.
Kudos to you, Wayangnologist.
Hope you are not deterred by some of the comments, and continue to bring more of your insights to the matter.

WORLD PEACE !

 

[Ah Hai]

Speaker's Corner - 6 December 2008 5 p.m.

I will speak at the 2nd anniversary of The Online Citizen, held at Speaker's Corner on Saturday 6 December from 5 to 7 p.m. My speech will cover two topics on life in Singapore. I will provide update on the class action, if there are updates from the lawyers.
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 8:17 PM :oIo:

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: Speaker's Corner - 6 December 2008 5 p.m.

Wednesday, December 03, 2008
Why we need to educate the people
"Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like the evil spirits at the dawn of day." -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Pierre S. du Pont de Nemours, 24 April 1816

Contributed by Ho Cheow Seng
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 6:14 AM

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: Speaker's Corner - 6 December 2008 5 p.m.

Wednesday, December 03, 2008
Washing dirty linen in public
"The convention which framed the Constitution of the United States was composed of fifty-five members. A majority were lawyers not one farmer, mechanic or laborer. Forty owned Revolutionary Scrip. Fourteen were land speculators. Twenty-four were money-lenders. Eleven were merchants. Fifteen were slave-holders. They made a Constitution to protect the rights of property and not the rights of man": Senator Richard Pettigrew - Triumphant Plutocracy (1922)

Contributed by Ho Cheow Seng
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 6:38 AM

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: Speaker's Corner - 6 December 2008 5 p.m.

Wednesday, December 03, 2008
Financial Advice
I am not able to give individual financial advice.

If you wish to get this advice, and is willing to pay a modest fee ($100 or $150 an hour), you can approach the following financial adviser firm:
http://www.tankinlian.com/forms/providend.pdf
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 6:40 AM

 

[Ah Hai]

13 Comments

Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can get independent advisory service from the following'
1. Provident Financial Advisory
2. Wilfred Ling of Promiseland
3. IPP Finacial
4. Frontier wealth management
5. Adrain Khiat of PIAS

Companies and agents to avoid. You only get product pushers from these companies, even toxic product peddlers.
NTUC
Prudential
AIA
Manulife

8:04 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how do one know for certain these 'advisors' wont try to pitch, no not necessarily sell, something

10:48 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

since Mr. Tan left ntuc it has become the worse and the agents are getting greedy and conscienceless.
I will say ntuc agents is the first to avoid

11:37 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. tan, someone whom you helped with leads and motor insurance sometime ago has been slandering you in the company's forum. He accused you of screwing up the sale in the last 3 years before you left. he remarked that you are not suitable as President and that if you were elected you will screw up the country. This is the beast that bites the hand that feeds him and his family..Many in the company are like him making all sort of slanderous comments about you. I would call them ungrateful dogs and bitches. They don't realise that you gave them the meaning of life. Where they are is due to you.
Retribution will come to them .

007

1:21 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let me say soemthing on behalf of blog owner.

"So whats new"

7:05 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sure you are not using the excuse of these slanderers to slander Mr Tan? Nice try and he fell for it.

8:40 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

slanders are a plenty and you know where they are. Once upon a time they used to suck up you know who and now these suckers are sucking up to you also know who. These people are blood suckers who would switch host to new host so long there is blood.

10:15 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ntuc has many eat duck follow duck eat chicken follow chicken. loyalty is who can give them the most commission. No wonder they are known
as greedy leeches.

10:33 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The agents now praise the new ceo for able to motivate them. I heard the agents now get a lot of help like promotions and many incentives.
The agents now sing different tunes.
The old tunes stale now.

8:45 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Successful people will ignore unqualified statements unless these statements created by the "dogs" are life threatening otherwise time used to defend these statements could be well used for productive things.

Let the mad "dogs" continue barking. If they are really competent and sincere to their customers their sales would not be affected.

12:28 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who are these dogs? are they the ungrateful dogs who are slandering MR. Tan?

10:52 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

they were the dogs which bit the hands of MR.Tan. They forgot MR. Tan gave them a living, to feed their family, to send their children to university and so on.Now they barked and call MR. Tan names, slander him , downgrade him and praise the new benefactor who knows how to pander to their greed and shameless behaviour. These ingrates will see retribution soon.

insider

11:24 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

these ungrateful dogs and bitches must be punished.

11:51 PM

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: 13 Comments

Wednesday, December 03, 2008
Mr. Brown show on TC investments
http://www.mrbrownshow.com/2008/12/01/the-mrbrown-show-town-council-investment-bank-of-singapore/
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 1:05 PM

 

[Ah Hai]

Speaker's Corner 6 December, 5 - 7 pm

Wednesday, December 03, 2008
Speaker's Corner 6 December, 5 - 7 pm


Social Justice and Fairness
First World Country in the 21st Century
How are our poor faring?

Speeches:
Tan Kin Lian
1. Our society should be more egalitarian
2, Elected leaders should represent the people
Leong Sze Hian:
1. HDB – how the poor are faring and affected by HDB policies
Ravi Philemon
1. Distributive justice; especially about how our education system does not equip people to be self-reliant, but to be workers.
Others:
1. Tan Kin Lian – Update on investors' situation (if any)
2. Andrew Loh – Update on town councils' replies to residents' query
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 1:07 PM :oIo:

 

[Ah Hai]

Re: Speaker's Corner 6 December, 5 - 7 pm

Wednesday, December 03, 2008
Minibond investor keen to take class action
Dear Mr. Tan,
Our hopes are dashed by the most recent announcement on the minibond issue. I guess most of the investors are devastated now.

Unfortunately, there is no way out now except for the class action. I believe that is the most effective and most direct way in approaching this issue. We consumers need to know the truth, whatever the outcome is. Please lead us into this!

RZ

REPLY
Please read my blog about the progress of the class action. It will take some time to get organised. I expect to give a recommendation towards end January on the course of action to take.

http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2008/12/legal-action-against-issuers-and.html
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 9:40 PM