Living in JB

[Investor]

Hi all, I have a question for anyone currently living in East Ledang or know about the current rents.

My lease in Singapore expires early next year and I was considering renting a place in East Ledang for a year, before my own unit gets completed, perhaps early 2013. It might just be easier to get the interiors completed. And of course, the recent positive feedback on 'living in JB' makes it very tempting.

I looked online and could not believe that the asking rent for only one Semi D available was RM 10K and only one Terrace RM 7K. Is it really that bad? Or there is a big difference between the asking and going price. Of course, I will talk with agents but it may be too early. However, any feedback will be appreciated because if this is really the case, I will not even consider.

Thanks,

IR

Hi IskandarRocks,

Current rental rates for a terrace in East Ledang is RM3,xxx.
My friend rented out one of his terrace at RM3,600. I don't know the exact amount he got for his other unit.
There are various different sizes of terraces. Some are big corner units with land, so price varies.
Semi-d should be between RM6,000 - RM8,000.

 

[euphony]

there is one here though not in the immediate nusajaya vicinity and a as yet unnamed International Destination Resort east of kota iskandar???

the last one is?

 

[ginfreely]

I wish to be in country A so that I have the options to decide where I want to retire at a later stage in life......options to me is better than no options. Many citizens in many of our neighboring countries do not like their govt and thing that Singapore is good but yet they cannot afford the lifestyle here. The irony is that many of my countryman are complaining about life. I use to stay in a 5 rooms flats and my wife use to stay in a 3 room flats. We are able to be where we are because the education system and the job opportunities in Singapore give us a chance.

Many college and university graduate from work as domestic Helpers. I know of a guy that work for the car grooming company that I go to, was a lawyer from myamar.

I count myself lucky to me born in a country where I know I will succeed if I work hard and I does not need to worry about my life (try being born in african continent, south America, India (caste system) and etc.

My advice is make the best out of the worst. Or make the best even better if you are lucky.

Cheers,
PH

Hehe remind me of the time when I was a teenager, so supportive of PAP, think that their policies are for the good of the people and really thankful to be born in SG! Now I wonder why we always need to compare to the worse off countries and not the better ones.

Even these countries may not be really worse off, the people can come to SG and slog a few years, but when they return, they become big landlord with acres of land in their homeland, while SG born and bred will have to slog for the rest of life until 70 or 80? And I mean really slog as cleaners etc and not enjoying life flying here and there giving talks!

 

[euphony]

yeh think we're referring to same thing. it's pretty much no news though. Would be interesting to see the development spread there. I remember something about some sg developer coming in to co-develop was it a health zone or something to that tune? whatever happened to that? Where is it, anyone knows?

the whole chunk of land on the other side of the coastal highway opposite HH has been earmarked for international theme parks.

Now come to think about it, there is also the Genting theme park at JPO side.....too much land.

 

[ginfreely]

It seems to me there are very few (if any) countries where people are mainly happy and satisfied. We generally find reasons to complain about whatever we have. As countries get richer often people complain more. Why this is, must be psychological. When the country is one where just meeting your basic needs is a worry you are either busy doing that or are happy you have done so (or tired from having done so).

As meeting basic needs becomes taken for granted people often start focusing on how much better things could be - and then are disappointed that they are not quite that good.

It is good that we strive for things to be better, I haven't seen anywhere where many things couldn't be improved. It would be nice if we could appreciate what we have while striving to make things better. Singapore might actually face a more difficult challenge now than it did in 1970. The tremendous economic success for such a small country results in high cost of living. This then means people need to do jobs that add a great deal of value in order to pay them enough just to live. Also, in such economies there will be a significant number of much richer people. People get jealous, that others have so much more than they do, and this is frustrating (even if they have 4 times as much as their great grandparents did - they focus more on how much better someone else has it today than how much better they have it than those before).

Johor offers Singapore an opportunity to help manage the process going forward. Without Johor Singapore's challenge would be significantly greater. And Singapore offers Johor great advantages for creating jobs and providing investment funds and expertise. Together I think the future is bright. It won't be perfect and people on both sides will complain I am sure. But I think very active ties will greatly benefit all sides.

It is easy to dismiss any discontent of people as jealousy. SG has always got rich, middle and poor people but never had so much discontent before!

 

[euphony]

the proposed is even more expensive than tuas! so if MY side raise SG will follow? hope its just talk only...

New Causeway toll likely fodder for Pakatan in Johor

 

[Puteri harbour]

Of we look at trend from 1960s to now (including many other countries) the asset price always increase faster than income. That is why investing in real asset like commodities and properties is the only investment but timing is important.

Cheers,
PH

The comparison has an important flaw as it missed out the vital income/salary growth factor over the same period. Asset growth without income growth at the same pace is one reason why people are not happy.

 

[Puteri harbour]

Between, our income has be growing faster than many of our neighbouring countries over the years(including low income group). For our neighbouring friends not only do they have slower growth, they have depreciating assets and worse still slow growth assets. I would still prefer asset growth. Income/asset ratio can be good when both is low. But then, I will be a very poor person in my country as well as globally.

Worse still, one day the govt will go bankrupt subsidizing it's people and cannot afford global goods and technology.

Hope it helps.
PH

The comparison has an important flaw as it missed out the vital income/salary growth factor over the same period. Asset growth without income growth at the same pace is one reason why people are not happy.

 

[wuqi256]

Originally Posted by Puteri harbour
I wish to be in country A so that I have the options to decide where I want to retire at a later stage in life......options to me is better than no options. Many citizens in many of our neighboring countries do not like their govt and thing that Singapore is good but yet they cannot afford the lifestyle here. The irony is that many of my countryman are complaining about life. I use to stay in a 5 rooms flats and my wife use to stay in a 3 room flats. We are able to be where we are because the education system and the job opportunities in Singapore give us a chance.

Many college and university graduate from work as domestic Helpers. I know of a guy that work for the car grooming company that I go to, was a lawyer from myamar.

I count myself lucky to me born in a country where I know I will succeed if I work hard and I does not need to worry about my life (try being born in african continent, south America, India (caste system) and etc.

My advice is make the best out of the worst. Or make the best even better if you are lucky.

Cheers,
PH


Hi PH, Contentment does not depend on what one have but rather what one is comfortable with. Despite having blinkers and blind faith, i can feel the water temperature rising. I got my education overseas and i found my job while overseas and i pay my taxes when its due. I am not as lucky as you and your wife as i stayed in a studio rental flat in my youth and grew up there. My dad and mum slaved long and hard in order to upgrade to a 3 room flat. Not because they were given the flat. We were also told that my younger sister will not be given education unless my mother went for an op to stop having kids. My dad was fined heavily. My uncle was a Chinese educated guy and when they switched to the English medium, he and a friend of mine (my Secondary school teacher eventually) were out of options and hard pressed to find good jobs.

Both country B and A has options, else you wouldn't see folks from country B making money and sending kids for education. Despite the discrepancy in the currency, folks from country B can still send kids to school in A though they are foreigners. Yes we should be contented but i agree that should not stop one from having options. Contentment and self preservation are 2 different things. There are primarily 2 groups of people coming out from SG to Johore, the ones who need another home and the ones who are here to escape the costs in country A.

Working hard doesn't always guarantee success in both countries A & B, i have seen lots of cases in country A where in the end, the flat they worked so hard to pay off was SERS and in the end, way past their prime and in their golden years, they have to service a new loan for a new flat. Lets look at reality, how many banks will loan to you at age 60 and above? Its not just about contentment that some guys from country A are now, for some, its survival. Complaining and doing something about it will give one a better chance than just complaining and not doing anything. Yet some do not complain but make plans for the long term. In the first place, if everyone in this world from country B-Z is contented, they wouldn't be in country A in the first place would they? Its not about contentment that is the push factor as there are many others.

Yes country A may have a better education but it doesn't guarantee anything especially nowadays people from Country B to Z can come by without needing to go through the education standards that country A has. There is no guarantee in country A these days that just because you work hard, you will have jobs. There are lots of people who are educated or highly educated but without jobs. Some for years. Where are their jobs? Some are even willing to lower their expectations and have the relevant skillsets and education yet that does not guarantee them anything much alone success. The country A both you and i grew up in is no longer the country A anymore.

To blame migration or seeking an alternative place all on contentment issues would be slightly myopic in my humble opinion.

There are those that will succeed because of their government, there are also those that will succeed despite of their government.
Both countries A & B has their fair share of people like that.

 

[Puteri harbour]

Every citizens can have the same options and give up citizenship when they think that their govt is not good enough and I am sure many other countries are more happy to welcome them. The problem with Singaporeans is that they are not contented. No country can hide in a cave forever. Globalization will open all markets. It is a matter of time. It is better to compete and learn early than to panic later. We do not have the luxury of resources like middle easy and Australia.....

Cheers,
PH

Hehe remind me of the time when I was a teenager, so supportive of PAP, think that their policies are for the good of the people and really thankful to be born in SG! Now I wonder why we always need to compare to the worse off countries and not the better ones.

Even these countries may not be really worse off, the people can come to SG and slog a few years, but when they return, they become big landlord with acres of land in their homeland, while SG born and bred will have to slog for the rest of life until 70 or 80? And I mean really slog as cleaners etc and not enjoying life flying here and there giving talks!

 

[Aisanbo]

the proposed is even more expensive than tuas! so if MY side raise SG will follow? hope its just talk only...

In a way, it's good.....if the toll fee is not increased for those not using EDL.
At least there's a choice for people to escape the jam at CIQ if they willing to pay.
That's additional s$8 per day or s$160/mth which I think is worth it if there's no jam and makes it feasible for daily smooth commuting.

 

[wuqi256]

Hehe remind me of the time when I was a teenager, so supportive of PAP, think that their policies are for the good of the people and really thankful to be born in SG! Now I wonder why we always need to compare to the worse off countries and not the better ones.

Even these countries may not be really worse off, the people can come to SG and slog a few years, but when they return, they become big landlord with acres of land in their homeland, while SG born and bred will have to slog for the rest of life until 70 or 80? And I mean really slog as cleaners etc and not enjoying life flying here and there giving talks!

I was one of those believers back then. People will always compare to the worse off to make themselves feel better, that way, they can continue to cheat themselves and continue to stay in the pot even as the water temperature rises.

Yes thats the thing, there are people in this forum who makes enough to qualify in the top 20% and yes they are able to feed themselves and some can even feed 9 others on one persons salary. Lets call this person, a financial "strongman".

This is only a temporary situation as no one will be up there forever. Yet while he is there, one can easily see people suffering around him and tries to help but that the solution for them isn't in Singapore unless they can dramatically and drastically improve their lot and catch up with the spiraling costs.

The cost of living is now starting to be so high that many are barely catching a breath. Yes country B may have more problems than country A but people in country B, at least some of them can still survive with one persons salary. How many in country A can do that? Its not about cutting piano/violin/ballet lessons but just on a survival basis.

What happens when one day that "strongman" falls through recession, financial turmoil and loses his job? Country A people always have to be on tenterhooks, no matter how highly qualified they are as education, academic success and working hard is by no means the only criteria where one is judged/hired by. People can afford to fail in country B, as an employer myself, i have seen that but not in country A where failure is still seen as not an option.

There has to be a back up plan if the "strongman" fails, even with substantial savings or investments, the ever rising costs and inflation will surely eat away through the years and what about the dependants on this "strongman".

 

[wuqi256]

Every citizens can have the same options and give up citizenship when they think that their govt is not good enough and I am sure many other countries are more happy to welcome them. The problem with Singaporeans is that they are not contented. No country can hide in a cave forever. Globalization will open all markets. It is a matter of time. It is better to compete and learn early than to panic later. We do not have the luxury of resources like middle easy and Australia.....

Cheers,
PH

PH, agree with some of your points but the issue is not just about contentment, for some its a bread and butter issue. This brings me to the question Mr V gave to others when asked to raised the handout given to the poor. Its not about restaurants or foodcourt but for some, they can't even afford coffeeshop let alone hawker centre. There are those who are drawn by the pull factor yet lots of others leave because of push factors. As what you say, globalisation is here and its here to stay, which is why whatever rules that use to hold true for country A is no longer as true. There are way more factors dictacting ones success than just hardwork and education. The easiest way to illustrate this is cost.

People from country A may need a minimum of $3k for a household for example. People from country C can subsist on $1k as their families and needs such as education, food are not in Singapore. What is going to happen when both compete for the same $3k job. Assuming all things being equal, country C can afford to go down 2/3 but can the country A guy match even half of that and still provide for the family?

 

[Whathefish]

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/papers/people/pp-s17.pdf

Look at page 7, and you'll see which tier has benefited from the past decade.

I am ok, i've got pretty good basket of investments, properties, savings. However, how about the poorer 20 percentile of our citizens? How about our next generation?

 

[wuqi256]

Between, our income has be growing faster than many of our neighbouring countries over the years(including low income group). For our neighbouring friends not only do they have slower growth, they have depreciating assets and worse still slow growth assets. I would still prefer asset growth. Income/asset ratio can be good when both is low. But then, I will be a very poor person in my country as well as globally.

Worse still, one day the govt will go bankrupt subsidizing it's people and cannot afford global goods and technology.

Hope it helps.
PH

Having appreciating assets help only when one has more than a house or able to sell it and move to another. The market forces today dictates one to look at reality when looking at how these assets can be used. Many of country A people has to continually adapt and change in order just to survive and can ill afford to sell their "appreciating" asset only to buy another "appreciating" asset at the same or higher price. How would that person benefit from said growth unless he "downgrades" or seeks other alternatives. The folks up there has to look at the next step, yes we have this asset which is now worth this much, what can we do with it? For many people, there are not much they can do, it does look good on paper but what else can they do with it? Speaking of depreciating assets, COE is one (gone in 10 years) and our CPF is actually another one unless one actively plans and look at it.

Else the growth in the interest will not even cover inflation. Like a learned bro of mine just recently found out, he was happy with a 3.5% pay raise until another learned colleague burst his bubble when he told him that will not even cover inflation.

 

[ginfreely]

Of we look at trend from 1960s to now (including many other countries) the asset price always increase faster than income. That is why investing in real asset like commodities and properties is the only investment but timing is important.

Cheers,
PH

My point was in your comparison, you showed asset growth to be much higher in country A than country B but did not show the income growth. Without income growth, country A looks better, but once include income growth, country B may be better after all...why? Becos even if the income growth is slower in country B than country A, the asset growth is also slower making life easier for the people in country B to afford these assets. Whereas country A people have a worse life with slow income growth and high asset growth! After all not everybody wants to sell off assets, pack up and leave one's country, the majority of people want to settle down and grow old in one's own country.

 

[wuqi256]

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/papers/people/pp-s17.pdf

Look at page 7, and you'll see which tier has benefited from the past decade.

I am ok, i've got pretty good basket of investments, properties, savings. However, how about the poorer 20 percentile of our citizens? How about our next generation?

Yes, we need to look far and seriously at ourselves. Its really not just about contentment, you can only be contented when you have a stomach that is not constantly growling. There are already those who don't even have a roof over their heads and i am not talking about people who didn't make an effort for themselves. Only when their basic needs for food (not talking about restaurants or foodcourt), medical, housing are met and they are not happy can we even say they are discontented.

To illustrate, I have a relative who was forced out of the flat that she fully paid for and had to sell it as she was the only one living there and also as they got SERS. She then have to squeeze in with her sons/daughters and in the end the son-in-law has to help take care of her. This was one very enterprising and smart lady who made money selling noodles when she was young. She made the mistake of paying up the place and then when she got SERs, that was when the downhill ride started.

Another one, similar case, no money to go for the new flats even though it was discounted, it was still way more than what his old place costs (and could fetch), at his old age, which bank can loan him money? In the end, have to rent and stay with a complete stranger.

 

[wuqi256]

My point was in your comparison, you showed asset growth to be much higher in country A than country B but did not show the income growth. Without income growth, country A looks better, but once include income growth, country B may be better after all...why? Becos even if the income growth is slower in country B than country A, the asset growth is also slower making life easier for the people in country B to afford these assets. Whereas country A people have a worse life with slow income growth and high asset growth! After all not everybody wants to sell off assets, pack up and leave one's country, the majority of people want to settle down and grow old in one's own country.

Agree. Especially for assets in country A, how easy is it to liquidate the assets if one still wants to live in country A? You sell your flat and downgrade but hey there are rules to stop you downgrading. Even if you do, then what, to to find a very rural new HDB that somehow did not appreciate with market forces and buy? Then go through the same circle and hope for the best? Asset growth may have grown in Country A but seriously income growth has not changed much and certainly not enough to account for inflation.

If one can grow old undisturbed by mounting medical and daily bills, who would want to leave ones own land and leave the things that they were familiar with? Its really not just the pull but the guys in charge should take a long hard look at the push factors. When one or two staff is unhappy, you can blame it on them being choosy or discontented, but when many are unhappy, one should quickly get a mirror and start looking at oneself.

 

[ginfreely]

Every citizens can have the same options and give up citizenship when they think that their govt is not good enough and I am sure many other countries are more happy to welcome them. The problem with Singaporeans is that they are not contented. No country can hide in a cave forever. Globalization will open all markets. It is a matter of time. It is better to compete and learn early than to panic later. We do not have the luxury of resources like middle easy and Australia.....

Cheers,
PH

Why should we give up citizenship when we think the govt is not good enough? We should give up the govt instead! Remember PAP is not Singapore!!

 

[wuqi256]

Rather than sneering at Singaporeans because they are "discontented", one should realise that there isn't smoke without fire.
Things didn't get bad overnight.

The guys up there in country A should look at what they are doing and be pragmatic in realising that some policies is as
unsustainable as some policies in country B. You can't continually sacrifice and put your own people in 2nd place and expect
them to be happy.

I still believe in country A and hope more can be done, instead of blaming the people, they can choose to help the people, for once.
(I mean the real type of help, not the type of help that HDB uncles/aunties groan about every time they see more "help")