Living in JB

[Coolsaint77]

hi bro,thanks for your long posting, very informative indeed. you have done a lot of homework. i salute u
i have not logged in for awhile so my apology for the late reply. initially i was looking at molek area too. but no ready units available. even resale is very limited.
anyway i have already purchased in austin heights, pretty decent place and met a few singaporeans staying there too during the weekend we went there to finalise the deal.

reason i bought there : 2 layer security guards. a lot of rich business-owners staying there so the neighbourhood is very decent and "cultured".

next the new highway linking austin to the malaysian customs/causeway due for completion in 2012.

indeed we also went to bukit indah area but the place is very congested with so many new commercial developments coming up so we think in time to come, it will be very congested. excellent example is the traffic along nusa bestari now with all the shophouses fully tenanted. nusa duta was nice but has to pass thru shophouses on the way to main road so this is a let-down.
horizon hils - not sure why but we dont really like the feng shui there
so in the end, ended up with austin heights
cheers

Congrats for finding the house you like. I realised my advice is totally opposite to yours, but this is where 2 persons with opposing views can both be right depending on what you want. PAP should learn :-p

I guess if you don't commute daily but only plan to use it as a getaway then it is not too bad, i must also admit i dismissed Mt Austin too easily without taking a good look at the area.

Few months ago i was looking at some houses by Berinda opposite Molek Pine condo. A normal terrace cost 488k, but the size, layout and quality of the house looks a lot better than a typical house in JB. But you are right, the corner units are probably all sold out, if not it would be with large land area making the whole house costs like 900k.

The Jalan Nusa Bestari is indeed too congested. It existed during a time when Bukit Indah housing just started, and there was no Horizon Hills, Nusa Idaman, etc. I hate the roads around these areas. The only point to highlight is, you can actually live comfortably around the few developments i stated without going into Jalan Nusa Bestari very much, maybe just passing by the fringe.

Ok time to organise a samster GTG in JB

 

[sillysinky]

Finally i am looking to buy and invest in up to 5 house sin johor at one go. Places I am looking at is : Horizon Hills, east ledang etc, where i can rent to expats working in Singapore for just S$3500 a month for a 3-storey semi-d which includes maintence and electricity bills.

I have been staying with my wife somewhere near Tun aminah for about 7-10 years and have been observing the different development for many years. I have seen the major transformation of JB from a cow-boy town to a relatively safer place.

Gentleman, its time to buy now. Mark my words. You buy now and come 2015 when Legoland, the major universities, the new Coastal highways are all completed, you will be surprised at the rise in your house prices

hi dapbest, wow you are very bullish about JB property until you are willing to buy 5 at one go. I salute you
not to pour cold water, but what if legoland and the universities are cancelled off later. I can see that there are very busy building highways now, which should be completed sooner or later.

also in my course of work that deals with FT staffs from multinational companies based in Singapore. They come from India, China and so on. Indeed some of them have contemplated staying in JB but still hesitating due to the time needed to cross border and long distance involved in travelling.
so buying 5 at one go is too optimistic I think. anyway just my 2 cents worht of sharing with bros here.
dont want anyone to get caught with a downturn or change of policy in JB.
cheers

 

[sillysinky]

hi dapbest, wow you are very bullish about JB property until you are willing to buy 5 at one go. I salute you
not to pour cold water, but what if legoland and the universities are cancelled off later. I can see that there are very busy building highways now, which should be completed sooner or later.

hi, NEW JOHOR is no longer the same. Most of the area in Nusajaya are developed by UEM. UEM is something like our Capitaland. Bankrupt? Impossible. What makes me buy into East Ledang and surrounding? Well, Newcastle university professors are moving into East Ledang in a few months time. Have u been to the place yet? you should have a look at the whole development. They will give up one or two but they cant give up ALL, because the investments are already there. At the rate that they are progressing, frankly, I feel afraid that Singapore is gota be overtaken. You see the Qs from Malaysian custom to Singapore 2nd link custom during the first day of long weekends and u will be scared.. singaporeans are flocking to malaysia as usual!

HI,maybe I will go and have a look at east ledang one of these days
by the way, you stayed in Tun aminah for so many years, which I have to assume that you either you or your wife is a malaysian. As far as i know and from fellow sinkies info, Tun aminah is quite a "notorious" area, no ?

actually plenty of developments in so called New Johor - one of the main reason being property prices are at all time high and every developers want to cash in now.

Like coolsaints mentioned, HH and Nusa Duta are 2 other developments worth looking at. I myself prefer austin heights as I am afraid this nusajaya/bukit indah area will become very congested in time to come.

anyway, i doubt nusajaya can overtake singapore anytime soon. Singaporeans braving the weekend traffic jam to come over to malaysia as they want some "breathing space". singapore is getting so crowded that there is no feeling of personal space left wherever you go.

 

[ginfreely]

Hi would like to consult wuqi and others who moved to JB, do you change your IC address to your JB address? if not, how to handle the mails that come from banks and government agencies? thanks.

 

[Coolsaint77]

Hi Dapbest

You have a lot of faith in the Malaysian government. You even believe JB will overtake Singapore. Why do you still think DAP is the best then? Just kidding, maybe you don't mean that.

I'm not sure how many people actually believe Nusajaya will become a great place. It should be "pretty ok", but not great to the extent that your property price will quadraple in a few years. Johor has so much land. After East Ledang, UEM can easily build West Ledang, South Ledang or North Ledang cos' there are so much land. I dint even bite when they offered me phase I at about 900k MYR. I think phase II is about 1.1m.

I seriously have no clue where is this Nusajaya thing heading. I saw this Columbia hospital and it looked like a morgue. I drove around some new roads and saw this "Malbourough College" and i wonder if it is a college for smokers. Lots of constructions going on. But i suspect this is another of those Malaysian vision that starts with a bang and ends with a whimper... meow

Good luck to your investment in 5 houses

 

[wuqi256]

Ok guys, property buying has always been not without risks, nothing ventured nothing gained. Back when my relative was filthy filthy rich with literally bucket loads of money in the late 60s and 70s, no one wanted to buy houses in Singapore as its supposed to be a big risk with low returns. Back then, people in JB come to Singapore to buy things as things in Woodlands were even cheaper in JB.

Times has changed. Things do change here, albeit at a much slower pace than what we are used to in SG, i have met some learned friends who are working in SG companies that have invested heavily here.

I am not sure about the future, i am not here to tell you what to do, a lot still depends on how things will take off. Buy properties with a long term view, 5 properties in JB is not unheard of. There are many guys with 5-9 so Dapbest is not really wrong as he is thinking of spreading out his investments.

This is my personal observations, by and large, local JB bros here are pretty jaded and think that properties will never rise. They may well be right but lets face it, when things are at its peak, they decline, when things are at the bottom, the only way is either a new low or up.

I still remember a visit by a lawyer friend who was visiting some neighbours here. He was at that time, very shocked to hear about the prices of HH, etc but when he recently visited, he nodded sagely and told me, he is going to buy property in JB because the KL folks are coming out here.

Well, i would still say buyers beware (caveat emptor) but it wasn't that long ago that people told me that due to the large number of land in JB, properties are a depreciating asset. She and her husband just bought a unit at the Golf recently and i only got to know when a mutual friend told me about it.

Make no mistake, there are lots of land but do most of the areas make sense to people who wants to be near SG? Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on location, just like some places in Singapore, though land scarce will find it hard to go up simply because of lack of amenities or proximity to "undesirable" a.k.a red light districts.

 

[wuqi256]

I seriously have no clue where is this Nusajaya thing heading. I saw this Columbia hospital and it looked like a morgue. I drove around some new roads and saw this "Malbourough College" and i wonder if it is a college for smokers. Lots of constructions going on. But i suspect this is another of those Malaysian vision that starts with a bang and ends with a whimper... meow

Good luck to your investment in 5 houses [/QUOTE]

The grass is always greener on the other side i guess.

In life, there is always a risk to everything, i would rather try and fail then never try at all. At least i have the courage to stand up for what i believed in and if i fail, at least i have done my best, not condemned to keep wondering about what could have been.

When my relative's friend asked him to buy some landed property near Emerald hill and at sixth avenue(always flooding then) in the 60s, my learned relative also baded him good luck.

Things do change, its the only inevitable thing in life other than death and taxes. Look at it this way, someone just brought this up recently and reminded me of how things change. Look, corruption is rampart here right? It was not so long ago that both locals and people in SG were saying just bribe your way through any traffic incident. Some guys recently found out the hard way when they were charged with bribery when they pushed money in the TP's face.

 

[Coolsaint77]

I am cynical about the Malaysian government but i do hope things will change for the better Afterall, SG is so expensive, it is quite nice if we can have a nice abode an hour away costing barely a quarter of what it costs in SG. On the days i wake up at the right side of my bed, i actually tell my partner similar things like what you mentioned.

There is no doubt there is huge potential here given its proximity to SG. The people from Malaysia in charge of Nusajaya makes marketing visits to the SG government every now and then. Now... if Temasek decides to take a stake it can be quite a boost. An example of projects supported by SG is the properties near Sutera Mall... i think its under Taman Sutera or something... the old Kepland had a stake.

For the benefit of those who do not know, property prices in Nusa Idaman did indeed shoot up quite a lot if you compare the Phase 2A (the very first residential project here) to the current pricing... thanks to the support of you guys from SG :p

The earlier properties were indeed underpriced to attract buyers to a relatively new location. When phase 2A was launched 3 years back, there were no JUSCO, no TESCO, no GIANT... there was only the Nusa Bestari township

 

[Coolsaint77]

BUT... if you are expecting Nusajaya to undergo the transformation and consequential capital appreciation in properties like what happened in SG from the sixties till today... i would like to point out there are quite a few differences.

#1: SG is land scarce, JB is not. You will not find huge appreciation in property prices unless the locality becomes highly desirable or commerce in the area can support it. Eg. in Australia, the inner city properties are expensive, but the suburbs are not... well Australia does experience across the board property boom but then for those who live there, you will know the living environment is very much better than what you see in JB.

#2: MY does not practice meritocracy and experiences constant brain drain - i am one of the example... ahem. There are endless examples which is not the topic here, but an obvious example would be the 15% discount bumiputras enjoy in buying the same property as you, and the quota set aside for them in every property launched. Able people are not keen to remain in Malaysia, this is quite a problem here. The development of the country is executed by... 2nd rated talents.

A tip to property buyers in JB: you might find your choices limited becauses of a large portion set aside for bumiputras. Now, if these "bumiputra reserved properties" are not sold when the project reaches something like 50% or 75% completion, it becomes open to all. In practice, developer like Berinda does take booking for those properties ahead of open release.. i think their experience has been these properties usually do not get taken-up by bumiputras in the end... so they just "pre-sell" to you but if bumiputras decide to buy them they will refund you.

#3: Corruption is deeprooted. I am not saying SG is not corrupted, but Malaysian kind of corruption is more like Indonesian... rather 3rd world. Even today i can see JB immigration officers receiving money and putting into their pocket - in full public view. The reported case of the Singaporean being charged for bribery - i would say he is not smart. Try driving down to KL and get stopped by TP along the way, see if they ask you for money. My personal experience tells me nothing much has changed.

#4: Project execution is poor. There are tons of projects launched as a result of some politician's brainchild... but it never materialised in the way it is meant to be. If you go to Danga Bay, you can still see a huge signboard showing the intial Masterplan of Danga Bay. It was suppose to be a nice resort and entertainment area. But it is far from that. Will Nusajaya become a white elephant? I hope not. Is Putrajaya a huge success? I'm not sure.

#5: Crime rate is high. If you have ever been a victim and visited the police station, or the investigation department, you can understand why the crime rate cannot come down in JB. The officers are really.. really LEPAK... it is in the blood of these people to enjoy life and take everything easy. Very few police here is interested to fight crime. They are more interested in the very lucrative activity called Sertting Up Road Block.

Hence please do consider these factors before you make your foray into JB

 

[sillysinky]

thanks coolsaints, wuqi n dapbest for sharing their valued opinions.
I guess i may sum it up simply that the singaporeans are pretty bullish about JB properties but the malaysians themselves are not so convinced.
as far as investing in properties, i guess Malaysians (read johoreans) lose out in terms of experience to the singaporeans, who have seen the boom since the 70s.
hate to admit it but we do have the eye for good investments :P as well as the curency advantage. for every property we buy in singapore we can easily buy 2-3 properties in Malaysia.
although i will invest in selected JB areas but I will do it in a very controlled manner and not get caught in the euphoria .
cheers bros

 

[Charlie258]

Ok guys, property buying has always been not without risks, nothing ventured nothing gained. Back when my relative was filthy filthy rich with literally bucket loads of money in the late 60s and 70s, no one wanted to buy houses in Singapore as its supposed to be a big risk with low returns. Back then, people in JB come to Singapore to buy things as things in Woodlands were even cheaper in JB.

Times has changed. Things do change here, albeit at a much slower pace than what we are used to in SG, i have met some learned friends who are working in SG companies that have invested heavily here.

I am not sure about the future, i am not here to tell you what to do, a lot still depends on how things will take off. Buy properties with a long term view, 5 properties in JB is not unheard of. There are many guys with 5-9 so Dapbest is not really wrong as he is thinking of spreading out his investments.

This is my personal observations, by and large, local JB bros here are pretty jaded and think that properties will never rise. They may well be right but lets face it, when things are at its peak, they decline, when things are at the bottom, the only way is either a new low or up.

I still remember a visit by a lawyer friend who was visiting some neighbours here. He was at that time, very shocked to hear about the prices of HH, etc but when he recently visited, he nodded sagely and told me, he is going to buy property in JB because the KL folks are coming out here.

Well, i would still say buyers beware (caveat emptor) but it wasn't that long ago that people told me that due to the large number of land in JB, properties are a depreciating asset. She and her husband just bought a unit at the Golf recently and i only got to know when a mutual friend told me about it.

Make no mistake, there are lots of land but do most of the areas make sense to people who wants to be near SG? Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on location, just like some places in Singapore, though land scarce will find it hard to go up simply because of lack of amenities or proximity to "undesirable" a.k.a red light districts.

Brothers, I learned a lot from your Posts. J.B properties is not a new fad in Sammyboy forum. It has been in discussion for more than a Decade. Older brothers in SBF may correct me: they may say 2-3 decades. Singapore is too small and is running out of breathing space.

I also buy M'sia properties. But I have 1 "Golden Rule" of property investment: (1)What I buy must go Up(in price). So, I do not buy in J.B.

Generally, it has long been accepted rule that you only invest a small amount in Malaysia. Only what you can afford to write off should things "go bad." The brother who bought 5, I would not be surprised if he as 15-50 properties in Singapore. So, he is loaded and can afford to "write off" his 5 properties without even a glance back at them. Remember Taman Permata?

Like you say, "caveat emptor!"

Good luck in your investments brothers, wishing you all the best. (same goes for me, too!!!!!)

 

[toyohon]

Charlie258
I think most of the discussions here are centred on relocating, buying for own stay, living in JB, not so much on pure investment, although it would be a plus if JB properties do go up and in some instances currently, it did.

 

[wuqi256]

BUT... if you are expecting Nusajaya to undergo the transformation and consequential capital appreciation in properties like what happened in SG from the sixties till today... i would like to point out there are quite a few differences.

#1: SG is land scarce, JB is not. You will not find huge appreciation in property prices unless the locality becomes highly desirable or commerce in the area can support it. Eg. in Australia, the inner city properties are expensive, but the suburbs are not... well Australia does experience across the board property boom but then for those who live there, you will know the living environment is very much better than what you see in JB.

#2: MY does not practice meritocracy and experiences constant brain drain - i am one of the example... ahem. There are endless examples which is not the topic here, but an obvious example would be the 15% discount bumiputras enjoy in buying the same property as you, and the quota set aside for them in every property launched. Able people are not keen to remain in Malaysia, this is quite a problem here. The development of the country is executed by... 2nd rated talents.

A tip to property buyers in JB: you might find your choices limited becauses of a large portion set aside for bumiputras. Now, if these "bumiputra reserved properties" are not sold when the project reaches something like 50% or 75% completion, it becomes open to all. In practice, developer like Berinda does take booking for those properties ahead of open release.. i think their experience has been these properties usually do not get taken-up by bumiputras in the end... so they just "pre-sell" to you but if bumiputras decide to buy them they will refund you.

#3: Corruption is deeprooted. I am not saying SG is not corrupted, but Malaysian kind of corruption is more like Indonesian... rather 3rd world. Even today i can see JB immigration officers receiving money and putting into their pocket - in full public view. The reported case of the Singaporean being charged for bribery - i would say he is not smart. Try driving down to KL and get stopped by TP along the way, see if they ask you for money. My personal experience tells me nothing much has changed.

#4: Project execution is poor. There are tons of projects launched as a result of some politician's brainchild... but it never materialised in the way it is meant to be. If you go to Danga Bay, you can still see a huge signboard showing the intial Masterplan of Danga Bay. It was suppose to be a nice resort and entertainment area. But it is far from that. Will Nusajaya become a white elephant? I hope not. Is Putrajaya a huge success? I'm not sure.

#5: Crime rate is high. If you have ever been a victim and visited the police station, or the investigation department, you can understand why the crime rate cannot come down in JB. The officers are really.. really LEPAK... it is in the blood of these people to enjoy life and take everything easy. Very few police here is interested to fight crime. They are more interested in the very lucrative activity called Sertting Up Road Block.

Hence please do consider these factors before you make your foray into JB

Thanks, these has all been taken into account even before i came here, if you read my earlier posts, i was the biggest sceptic of JB. What happened in KL may not necessarily be the same here due to the proximity of SG for JB. If the MY side does not move, at least the SG part will.

I have always made it a point to stress that we only go for already built properties unless we are 100% sure of the developer, even then go for loan rather than paying fully for the place. Check first and check again to be sure, one can never rule out all the possibilities that may go wrong no matter how we try but at least we would have done our due dilligence.

I have never asked anyone here to buy lots, this has always been about moving to JB and living there. This thread is called, Living in JB, not Investing in JB.

I definitely understand the part about crime and corruption but i have also seen first hand how crime was handled in certain (considered first world) countries, even in open court. It really shook me.

I understand the part about the brain drain and people who have move out of MY as its so bad and there are no opportunities like you said. If everyone feels that way, then it will never be as its a self fulfilling prophecy.

I personally know of many who have left MY but have always been curious why those working in SG especially have never given up their citizenship despite SG citizenship being cheaper than USED toilet paper.

 

[wuqi256]

Agreed Toyohon.

 

[wuqi256]

Sure Charlie, you bought in KL, etc? Capital appreciation got pretty good there.
I am glad, good for you man.

Maybe can you help bros here with more options by starting a thread called,
Living in KL or something and share with us the latest there.

 

[Charlie258]

Sure Charlie, you bought in KL, etc? Capital appreciation got pretty good there.
I am glad, good for you man.

Maybe can you help bros here with more options by starting a thread called,
Living in KL or something and share with us the latest there.

No need to be talented, knowledgeable, or a genius to make money in Property.

Just go to the Malaysia equivalent of Orchard Rd or Shenton Way. Buy there. Don't buy too expensive. Don't borrow too much money from Bank(so they cannot "squeeze" you when interest rates go up, or when valuations crash). Then, just sit and wait. The money sure come to you one.

 

[Charlie258]

Charlie258
I think most of the discussions here are centred on relocating, buying for own stay, living in JB, not so much on pure investment, although it would be a plus if JB properties do go up and in some instances currently, it did.

Some brothers here suggested renting in J.B. if you want to live there.

If you want to buy, why not look for a small terrace house in the outskirts? I think RM500,000 can get already.

Security problem? But 3 units side-by-side, rent the side ones to close friends or relatives. Security problem solved(more or less!).

For me, the RM1,000,000 to RM2,000,000 good-class-bungalow that some JB Developers are trying to push on to rich Singaporeans is out of the question. Too much Political Risk and Event Risk in Johor State.

 

[Coolsaint77]

I personally know of many who have left MY but have always been curious why those working in SG especially have never given up their citizenship despite SG citizenship being cheaper than USED toilet paper.

Because SG is expensive and unkind. MY is Plan B. For many of us working in SG, we prolly can retire now and live in JB for the rest of our life

 

[Coolsaint77]

Some brothers here suggested renting in J.B. if you want to live there.

If you want to buy, why not look for a small terrace house in the outskirts? I think RM500,000 can get already.

Security problem? But 3 units side-by-side, rent the side ones to close friends or relatives. Security problem solved(more or less!).

For me, the RM1,000,000 to RM2,000,000 good-class-bungalow that some JB Developers are trying to push on to rich Singaporeans is out of the question. Too much Political Risk and Event Risk in Johor State.

You can get a good sized corner terrace in Nusajaya area for 500k, at a reasonably good location. No need 3 units lah, my neighbours in Nusa Idaman for example are pretty decent. Buy a unit that is not at a secluded corner. Most new properties are gated these days. Avoid single storeys.

Yes, don't expect to live the luxurious life in JB as that would be too high profile and attract lotsa attention.

 

[Charlie258]

Because SG is expensive and unkind. MY is Plan B. For many of us working in SG, we prolly can retire now and live in JB for the rest of our life

Malaysian people are not stupid. They can see that only the top few richest can own Freehold Landed Property in Singapore. In Malaysia, even the roadsweeper and toilet cleaners have their own Freehold Landed Property.

In Singapore, everything must Pay and Pay. In Malaysia, just walk out to your Chicken Coop and pick out a few eggs, pull up some vegetables from your garden, can have lunch, dinner already.

They would have to be nuts to give up their M'sia citizenship!