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Living in JB 3 (Johore)

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Re: New Tax Rates For Foreigners Owning Properties In Johor

A simple thing like a rich neighbour like Singapore will do.

My stupid friend bought a 50th fl unit in Astaka for RM1500+ psf.

Penang I only like Gurney Dr. And I have never come across a FH Gurney Super Condo for RM400 yet. (my favorite condo in Penang is Gurney Paragon. I did not buy because I know I cannot make much from it.)

E&O condos call Straits Quay is trying hard to sell off their units. But tough luck.... rental is slow.
(Thanks for pointing it out. I was wondering anyone use Straits Quay as a proxy toward Puteri Harbour)

http://www.straitsquay.com/footer/e&o_property_development

Penang, controlled by the DAP and hampered by limited supply of land, is struggling to sell off SEA-fronting condos @ RM 1000 PSF. In fact some condos in Penang are strugging to sell even at RM 400 PSF with its so-called sea view. What makes u think Zone A condos can see new level as high as RM 1800 psf?
 
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I am ang moh myself, and believe me, there is no way I am going to make a single step in JB city...my malaysia experience will be limited to: Horizon hills, Ledang, Leisure Farm, Puteri Harbour, Medini, Gerbang nusjaya and Sunway Iskandar and the Internstinal Destination resort.

If your Malaysia experience is limited to the above, you do know that you will have an issue with groceries & entertainment in the next 5 years right? There's virtually no amenities at all in the areas that you mention.

Nothing against you, but the ang mos I know are far more adventurous. I see them all over Johor, from Tian Lai (Gelang Patah) to Chez Papa (Taman Pelangi)....
 
If your Malaysia experience is limited to the above, you do know that you will have an issue with groceries & entertainment in the next 5 years right? There's virtually no amenities at all in the areas that you mention.

Nothing against you, but the ang mos I know are far more adventurous. I see them all over Johor, from Tian Lai (Gelang Patah) to Chez Papa (Taman Pelangi)....

I saw an mo *cycling* in Bukit Indah coming down from Perling just last month. Seriously more adventurous than me.
 
Re: New Tax Rates For Foreigners Owning Properties In Johor

This talk on Zone A and B are only on Condos. Not Landed.
I am personally looking for landed in Zone B too.


When I study both Nusajaya and JBCC I did not own a condo yet. The bias view is after all my study.

Like I say; I may be wrong, I am bias.


You may be right too. Just because of a naysayer will not cause your Nusajaya to fail. I never believe anyone can talk down an area.
My bias view is for new comers of Iskandar. I never dare to teach old dog new tricks. I am a old dog too.... cannot learn new trick
.

I like what you have said above. That is fair. We definitely have our own inclination whether we like it or not. I dont think we need to worry who is right or wrong.

Yes, we know that you have qualified yourself time and time again that you only meant Condos and not landed. I fully agree with your assessment that Condos will be a serious issue very soon. I bought condos too but definitely would not touch it with a pole going forward given the up coming supply. I pity those who're just starting to jump into the bandwagon and snifing out the condo launches!

Cheers
N
 
Re: New Tax Rates For Foreigners Owning Properties In Johor

JOHOR BARU:

Looks like they are really learning fast from the PAPies, everything also wants to increase liow. Next on the cards will be utilities like electricity and water.

"Legalised Corruptions " in politics knew no bounds.

The intention is to increase state's return and not to protect its people from unaffordable housing.

Astronomical returns for state revenues - to help its people or to justify higher bonuses and pay for themselves?
 
What I say in this forum is very offensive toward a lot of condo owners.

I can pretend pretend and let the world like me. But it is not my nature.

I am trying to make sure Singaporean do not get con or suffer in Johor.

That is why I support Wuqi 100% at least he has the knowledge and a good heart to help potential buyers.

By the way Wuqi also do not agree with me on the zone. Only thing we agree is never buy leasehold in Iskandar.

We are here to share. Our view is different because of our experience in life and the information we get.

That does not make us enemy. Just friend with a different view.

I like what you have said above. That is fair. We definitely have our own inclination whether we like it or not. I dont think we need to worry who is right or wrong.

Yes, we know that you have qualified yourself time and time again that you only meant Condos and not landed. I fully agree with your assessment that Condos will be a serious issue very soon. I bought condos too but definitely would not touch it with a pole going forward given the up coming supply. I pity those who're just starting to jump into the bandwagon and snifing out the condo launches!

Cheers
N
 
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Agreed agreed.

We are all here to share and learn.

What I say in this forum is very offensive toward a lot of condo owners.

I can pretend pretend and let the world like me. But it is not my nature.

I am trying to make sure Singaporean do not get con or suffer in Johor.

That is why I support Wuqi 100% at least he has the knowledge and a good heart to help potential buyers.

By the way Wuqi also do not agree with me on the zone. Only thing we agree is never buy leasehold in Iskandar.

We are here to share. Our view is different because of our experience in life and the information we get.

That does not make us enemy. Just friend with a different view.
 
What I say in this forum is very offensive toward a lot of condo owners.

I can pretend pretend and let the world like me. But it is not my nature.

I am trying to make sure Singaporean do not get con or suffer in Johor.

That is why I support Wuqi 100% at least he has the knowledge and a good heart to help potential buyers.

By the way Wuqi also do not agree with me on the zone. Only thing we agree is never buy leasehold in Iskandar.

We are here to share. Our view is different because of our experience in life and the information we get.

That does not make us enemy. Just friend with a different view.

No offence to anyone, but Singaporeans, even those who've lived in JB/Nusajaya for a few years, can't really know as much as the locals. That is a problem as it may lead to misreading the mkt or local situation and is a danger for investors. Singaporeans also lack exposure and have been very sheltered, leading to being conned not just in MY but in China and all over.In fact, MY is relatively safe. We just need to be very careful.......its best to speak with locals, those who are true blue Malaysians who've lived there a long time. I see 2 mkts emerging, one for Malaysians and one for foreigners. I dont know yet if this is a bad thing as some foreigners like the Japs might be in for the long haul, Singaporeans also for own stay.But Malaysians are also investing in certain projects in Iskandar like in Puteri they mainly zeroed in on Teega( am not vested myself in PH but this is what I heard). I suppose most of us here are vested and likely didnt go in at super high prices. As for me I bought Sky garndes @ 3XXpsf. I am prepared to use it as a retirement home but will flip if I can after 5 years as we dont know how long the 'party' will last. For one thing interest rates are likely going up, I am preparing to pay down in full as MY interest rates bey tahan. Please make sure you have enough cash , dont over leverage.
 
The property market can sustain 2 zones, A & B. For zone B, the developments have been well broadcasted. For zone A, it will be things like RTS, expanded/improved roads and bridges, and large future malls/shops eg Mount Austin, Ikea & Midvalley.

I feel freehold landed is a better investment class than condo. To get a similar brand-new inter-terrace in SG, its likely to cost upwards from SGD $2.5m onwards while iskandar freehold terrace is around RM 600K (S$250k). The price differential is nearly 10 times, and will surely narrow in the coming years as Iskandar develops and Singapore's silver Tsunami approaches......
 
600K cant buy you a terrace in a 'good neighbourhood' anymore,not a decent size which would be at least 2200sqft. In fact some developers like Setia and even KSL are not building terraces in Nusajaya anymore but rather clusters so that they can price it abv 1M.In HH a terrace is 1.4M at the latest launch. It would require compromising location and size to buy something for 600K. Even in Zone A, the better neighbourhoods are pricier. So.....not so affordable anymore. Btw, a 3 bedroom condo below 600K is also not easy to find now in a good estate, good location. In Setia Tropika which isnt even that 'prime' Setia seems to sell out at higher and higher prices, am referring to the condos. Even Sky Estadia could sell out at abv600psf?But majority of the buyers are NOT foreigners I hear. I think some locals are buying to flip to foreigners.
Soon investing in Iskandar will cost more than buying a brand new medium sized HDB unit.
 
No offence to anyone, but Singaporeans, even those who've lived in JB/Nusajaya for a few years, can't really know as much as the locals. That is a problem as it may lead to misreading the mkt or local situation and is a danger for investors. Singaporeans also lack exposure and have been very sheltered, leading to being conned not just in MY but in China and all over.

No offence taken at all but if by reference to ignorance, there are many here in professional capacity who gave tips on properties without taking into foreign levy, length of state consent, etc. A certain project, folks even marketed to SG buyers that it will not affect their HDB MOP because their serviced apartments were not residential. I asked the few who would listen to check in on their S&P first. Ignorance is universal and does not recognise passports.

Its not the time that one spends or whether local will know but the amount of exposure one has in this field.
Definitely agree though about not overleveraging.
 
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Re: New Tax Rates For Foreigners Owning Properties In Johor

A simple thing like a rich neighbour like Singapore will do.

My stupid friend bought a 50th fl unit in Astaka for RM1500+ psf.
Penang I only like Gurney Dr. And I have never come across a FH Gurney Super Condo for RM400 yet. (my favorite condo in Penang is Gurney Paragon. I did not buy because I know I cannot make much from it.)

E&O condos call Straits Quay is trying hard to sell off their units. But tough luck.... rental is slow.
(Thanks for pointing it out. I was wondering anyone use Straits Quay as a proxy toward Puteri Harbour)

http://www.straitsquay.com/footer/e&o_property_development



Your friend is indeed stupid for he may have to wait for 50 years to see the completion and delivery of the 63 storey Astaka iconic condominium.

I dare to make such a comment because I eat and sleep with many of these Malaysian property developers.
 
600K cant buy you a terrace in a 'good neighbourhood' anymore,not a decent size which would be at least 2200sqft. In fact some developers like Setia and even KSL are not building terraces in Nusajaya anymore but rather clusters so that they can price it abv 1M.In HH a terrace is 1.4M at the latest launch. It would require compromising location and size to buy something for 600K. Even in Zone A, the better neighbourhoods are pricier. So.....not so affordable anymore. Btw, a 3 bedroom condo below 600K is also not easy to find now in a good estate, good location. In Setia Tropika which isnt even that 'prime' Setia seems to sell out at higher and higher prices, am referring to the condos. Even Sky Estadia could sell out at abv600psf?But majority of the buyers are NOT foreigners I hear. I think some locals are buying to flip to freigners.
Soon investing in Iskandar will cost more than buying a brand new medium sized HDB unit.

Yes, I have a much harder time finding new terrace units. Minimally cluster units tt r usually in e range of $1 mil RM. Given this scenario, next year we will see terrace > 2000 sqft subsale in e region of $800k RM in good areas. I think developers r also protecting themselves of e possibility of govt regulation tt landed have to be above $1 mil to sell to foreigners. But I think in 2-3 years' time most terraces will fetch close to $1 mil RM in e market so e regulation will be just a formality to make e locals happy.
 
Re: New Tax Rates For Foreigners Owning Properties In Johor

If one must go for condos, please look for:

1. Reputable developers who have track records especially
look out for the transfer of master title, etc.

2. DIBS but beware and check on this (please see below)

3. Never EVER pay in cash for projects especially condo projects,
use the bank, even if for a loan for a short term and find more than
2-3 banks to for loan approval first.

They will know more lawyers than us for sure.
Banks needs to disburse the funds for your loan so they will do
due diligence and check carefully before they will release the funds.

If more than a few banks don't want to do the project, neither should you too.

4. Check on the bank doing the end financing, check on the S&P to see if there are
any clauses or application for exemptions

These are just simple and straightforward tips that i am sure many already know.


House-buyers beware of DIBS
--------------------

OF late, there have been a few housing developers who proudly advertise that the sales of their product are offered are with “interests payment borne by developers”. Such schemes are known as DIBS, that is developers' interest-bearing scheme.

A particular one even boldly states that house-buyers make no payment until due vacant possession of the said houses.

It entices potential house-buyers that all they need is to pay the requisite downpayment of 10% upon signing the sales and purchase agreement (SPA) and the balance thereof will be financed by their panel banks/financial institutions.

Some even have the audacity to equate the same with the 10:90 concept of built-then-sell (BTS). One even goes as far as to advertise the mode of payment as 5:95 model. The connotations in all these advertisements are that buyers do not make any progressive payments until the houses are completed and ready for vacant possession.

All these advertised “schemes” of payments are nothing more than loan packages. Although the advertisement states “no payment until vacant possession”, in reality the buyers' loans are “locked-in” with panel banks/financial institutions and hence, buyers' housing loans are used to pay the developers as they construct the houses.

It is based exactly on the current sell-then-build (STB) or progressive payment formula. This formula has got so many house-buyers into trouble when the houses they buy are abandoned by the developers.

The only difference in the advertised system is that the interests towards the progressive payments are shouldered, absorbed and borne by the developers. Buyers still have to secure their end-financing housing loans as soon as they sign the SPA. Buyers are still responsible to the banks and financial institutions for the loans whether the houses are delivered or not. BTS 10:90 model

This is far different from the real BTS 10:90 concept put in place and encouraged by the Government, whereby the buyers truly do not make any payment except for the deposit of 10% until vacant possession because the end-financing loans do not kick in until the houses are completed with all the certifications obtained and keys with vacant possession are available.

It is a far safer mode of buying houses and this is precisely why the Government is encouraging it and furthermore offering incentives to developers who opt to adopt this mode of selling their products. But it fell short of compelling the industry to adopt this BTS 10:90 concept currently. However, the Housing and Local Government Minister has reiterated that the BTS 10:90 will be made mandatory by 2015.

Vital differences

The vital difference between the advertised DIBS abbreviation and the government-encouraged BTS 10:90 is that, in the advertised DIBS or 10:90 or 5:95 model, should the developer abandon the project (for whatever reason), buyers are left with a partially disbursed housing loan to settle.

The amount varies in accordance with the amount of disbursements made.

The primary borrower is still the buyers and that it is the sole responsibility of the borrowers/buyers to continue with the proper conduct of his loan from the financiers.

Banks have not been known to be sympathetic to victims of abandoned projects.

The loans still have to be settled house or no house! This is the predicament presently faced by tens of thousands of nave and innocent buyers when the houses that they had bought were abandoned by their developers.

Don't think for a minute that the financier will write off the loan payable by the borrower/buyer.

Thus, the various advertisements for DIBS abbreviation or 10:90 or 5:95 or 0:100 connotations are merely marketing tools and are not the same as the BTS 10:90 concept that is put in place under the Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Act and Regulations.

These advertisements are open to misunderstanding and confusion. In this period of soft market in the housing industry, it is natural that more and more innovative sales strategy will come in.

We are not in opposition to that, but we are of the stand that advertisements should not have any element of misrepresentation or misconception and should not give rise to misunderstanding and confusion.

Housing Ministry to be vigilant

The Housing Ministry's Licensing Department should also take a close look at the contents of such advertisements before granting them sales and advertisement permits.

To allow such advertisements is injustice to nave and innocent first-time house-buyers.

Has the ministry erred in allowing those advertisements or did it not manage to spot the difference?

I would like to categorically state that I'm by no means implying that the advertised project is likely to be abandoned. This article is aimed only to inform potential buyers on the differences between the advertised DIBS or 10:90 or 5:95 or 0:100 mode of purchase vis-vis the government-encouraged BTS 10:90 concept.

Be an informed buyer and empower yourself with information to make a wise decision.

How to spot the difference

On the side of caution, the buyer needs to check if he has bought into a STB 10:90 loan package “scheme” or a BTS 10:90 concept. The differences between the two models are already explained in the article. An easy way to know what the buyer has bought is to refer to the SPA. If the contract is a Schedule H or Schedule G, the scheme is a sell-then-build. If the contract is a Schedule I or Schedule J, the scheme is a BTS 10:90 variant.


> Chang Kim Loong is the honorary secretary-general of The National House Buyers Association, a non-profit, non-governmental, non-political organisation manned by volunteers. For more information, click www.hba.org.my or e-mail [email protected]

Source:
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2012/12/22/business/12472840&sec=business
 
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Re: New Tax Rates For Foreigners Owning Properties In Johor

Hi Wuqi,

Thanks for the excellent and informative article. Are there any projects in Iskandar which are selling based on the BTS 10:90 concept? Many advertised DIBS which I believe are the STB packages mentioned in your article.
 
Re: New Tax Rates For Foreigners Owning Properties In Johor

Wuqi,

You wrote an excellent article. Thank you!
 
No offence taken at all but if by reference to ignorance, there are many here in professional capacity who gave tips on properties without taking into foreign levy, length of state consent, etc. A certain project, folks even marketed to SG buyers that it will not affect their HDB MOP because their serviced apartments were not residential. I asked the few who would listen to check in on their S&P first. Ignorance is universal and does not recognise passports.

Its not the time that one spends or whether local will know but the amount of exposure one has in this field.
Definitely agree though about not overleveraging.

May I clarify that I certainly wasnt including you? You're atypical as you've practically studied this and are very much hands on. Your knowledge is far superior to many Johoreans who arent investing. We're very fortunate to have you share your views.Even with Malaysians, those not from JB can easily be taken for a ride. My intention is just to warn Singaporeans, JB is a lot more complicated than meets the eye. I notice there is hardly any discussion here on older projects. We are all focussing on newer projects , costing abv 500K. Even when we compare we only compare those projects we're aware of.But the 'other market' exists. E.g in Jalan Abdullah Tahir where Sky 88 , Galaxy & KSL are, there's a FH condo going at 4XXpsf( Aster Court). Not many Singaporeans know this, and so we pay 3 times the price. Makes me wonder if our investments can stand the test of time.
If Singaporeans start getting' burnt' it wont do Iskandar any good. After the Straits Times report on Saturday, its scary but many of my friends who previously swore they'd never invest there now want to rush in. Some just want to grab something asap for fear the price is going up. I am getting a lot of calls, asking me to show them around:rolleyes:
As for 'professionals' if they're agents, well no offence to agents but most of them will say anything to close the deal!
 
No offence taken at all but if by reference to ignorance, there are many here in professional capacity who gave tips on properties without taking into foreign levy, length of state consent, etc. A certain project, folks even marketed to SG buyers that it will not affect their HDB MOP because their serviced apartments were not residential. I asked the few who would listen to check in on their S&P first. Ignorance is universal and does not recognise passports.
Its not the time that one spends or whether local will know but the amount of exposure one has in this field.
Definitely agree though about not overleveraging.
There are bad or ignorant agents out there. HDB defines all property that can be used for human stay as residential. This is regardless whether they are commerical or residential title.
 
As for 'professionals' if they're agents, well no offence to agents but most of them will say anything to close the deal!


Thank you for the confidence, i am nobody, just a weird Singaporean who really fell in love with this place. Points well raised and yes finding the real gems is definitely not easy. Good points about the Aster: http://www.propertynet.my/aster-court/

One of the projects i cover, still have FH going at 4XX psf in Bukit Indah area. Yes, so its good that they choose to release the news about the tax, tempering the good news with the bad.
 
There are bad or ignorant agents out there. HDB defines all property that can be used for human stay as residential. This is regardless whether they are commerical or residential title.

Yes, thats why it was galling that they sought to confuse the buyers with false information, using the seemingly commercial nature of the project when it was clear that it was still residential. As long as it says residential on your S&P, basically there is no getting around it if one contravenes the MOP regulations.

https://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10325p.nsf/w/PrivatePtyEligibility?OpenDocument

Flat owners and occupiers are allowed to invest in private properties (both local and overseas). However, they must meet certain eligibility conditions before they do so.


Flat owners and occupiers of the following sold flats are allowed to purchase private residential property (both local and overseas) if the flat owners have fulfilled the minimum occupation period for their flat. However, they must meet certain eligibility conditions.


Singapore Permanent Resident flat owners and/or essential family members who have met the minimum occupation period for their flat are required to notify HDB of their purchase of the local private residential property before they exercise the Option-To-Purchase (OTP) for the property. They would also be required to undertake to sell their HDB flat within 6 months of acquisition of a completed or uncompleted local private residential property.

Types of HDB Sold Flats Eligibility Condition
(a) Flats bought directly from HDB The flat owners must satisfy the required MOP for their flats before acquiring private residential property
(b) Resale flats purchased with CPF Housing Grant
(c) DBSS flats purchased directly from Developer
(d) Replacement flats bought directly from HDB under the Selective En-Bloc Redevelopment Scheme (SERS)
(e) Resale flats purchased without CPF Housing Grant
[for resale applications submitted on or after 30 Aug 2010]

(f) Resale flats purchased without CPF Housing Grant
[for resale applications submitted before 30 Aug 2010]
There is no need to satisfy the required MOP for their flats before acquiring private residential property.


There is no limit on the number of private properties that a flat owner or occupier can purchase.
The private residential property can still be under construction or is ready for possession.
Periods of non-occupation such as subletting of whole flat or any infringement of the lease of the flat, will be excluded in the minimum occupation period.
Singapore Citizen flat owners and occupiers must continue to stay in their HDB flat after the purchase of the private residential property unless prior approval from HDB is obtained to sublet the whole flat.
 
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