Serious Lee Wei Ling & Lee Hsien Yang condemns Lee Hsien Loong

[flatearther]

The first course is surely the complete removal of the Minister of Law who was caught red handed playing both sides

So is Shan saying that there was no conflict of interest because he was already a cabinet minister when he advised LKY on his Will?

Does that mean Shan was advising LKY in his capacity as Law Minister?

So what he does as a Law Minister or politician ie not professional capacity excludes him from the ethics of conflict of interest.

Furthermore, he can also defend himself by saying that LKY, LHL, LWL and LHY are all members of the same immediate family, and that even before LKY died, he had also met with LHL to talk about LKY's will.
And of course, he can also say that he had, and still has, the entire Lee Family's best interests at heart, so there's no conflict of interest, simply because his only interest is wanting what's "best" for the same immediate Lee family members, who constitute only "one side", not two or more sides.

 

[flatearther]

One confusing detail remains: Some articles have mentioned that Lee Kuan Yew left his estate in three equal shares to his children.... if so, how did the entire house to go LHL? Or are those reports wrong? Maybe only a one-third share of the house?

According to:
facebook.com/notes/lee-hsien-loong/summary-of-statutory-declarations/1507498539312847

8. As I only later learnt, this issue became the subject of discussion between LHY and Mr Lee in late 2013 and on 16 December 2013 at 7.08 pm, LHY’s wife, Mrs Lee Suet Fern (“LSF”) sent an email to Mr Lee, copied to LHY and KKL (“LSF’s Email”), stating:

“Dear Pa Pa
This was the original agreed Will which ensures that all 3 children receive equal shares, taking into account the relative valuations (as at the date of demise) of the properties each receives.

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

Agreed. With the 2 storey height resyriction removed. The row of houses then go for collective sales.

Whoever loaded up in anticipation Huat ahh...


Nearby likewise go enbloc huat !

Old man did indicate that the presence of his house led to 2 story height restriction and demolishing the house will allow development expansion for the area.

Stock taking at this stage reveals who we can trust and who has serious credibility issues. It's good to know that Tharman and HSK and their faction not being involved do offer a ray of hope.

The 2 biggest black mark from all this imo is the appointment of AG who is the least qualified and we now know the reason behind it. The other is the complete silence from Ho Ching despite the serious allegation levelled against her. Again a questionable appointment from day 1. Both appointments can be traced to one man and both are personally linked.

At the end of the day, the 2 siblings are 2 bit actors in the political scheme of things. It's now up to the political players and the wider population to address this.

The first course is surely the complete removal of the Minister of Law who was caught red handed playing both sides and despite his legal background and his self stated 22 years of practice seems to think that
a conflict of interest only arises when it involves a client. His fervent words on the appointment of AG is worthy of note for the wrong reasons.

Any settlement at this stage will largely be cosmetic and a pint of blood will surely be extracted from the both sides. For the foreseeable future the country will continued to be saddled with the dowager pulling the strings behind the scans without a whimper to be heard.

 

[flatearther]

Cluny anytime can fetch $100m

If that's the minimum that LWL inherited and her inheritance was exactly one-third of LKY's net worth, does that mean that his net worth was at least S$300 million?
I'm also wondering about the net worth of:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwa_Geok_Choo

From LWL's released emails she gets Cluny on top of the 1/3 share and it was the very kind Suet Fern who persuaded LKY to make the outright gift of Cluny.

But that was in late 2012, when the so-called "Sixth Will" (not the "Last Will" a year later in late 2013, which reinstated equal shares of the Estate) was made:
sammyboy.com/showthread.php?244311-Lee-Wei-Ling-amp-Lee-Hsien-Yang-condemns-Lee-Hsien-Loong&p=2614231#post2614231

facebook.com/445042029184779
"DISHONEST ALLEGATIONS OF CHEATING
...
After that will of 19 August 2011, Hsien Loong and Ho Ching were unhappy that I had been given a right to live at the original house at 38 Oxley Road. They pushed and persuaded my father very hard on this issue. This eventually resulted in 2012 in my losing my right to stay in the house and my share of my father’s estate being reduced to only a life interest. I was very upset and quarrelled with my father. It was in fact my sister-in-law, Suet Fern, who interceded with my father (when Ho Ching and Hsien Loong were overseas) on my behalf. She met with Lee Kuan Yew and made a case that since I was his only daughter and was unmarried, it was particularly important that he provide for me rather than reduce my interest in his estate. My father did reinstate me and gave me an extra 1/7 share as a result. Hsien Yang and his wife were never informed of this extra share and continued to worry that I should be fairly treated and have a right to live in the house."

By the way, it looks like LWL also contradicted herself in her above Facebook post (and her e-mails worsened her contradiction) when she claimed that "Hsien Yang and his wife were never informed of this extra share", even though "It was in fact my sister-in-law, Suet Fern, who interceded with my father (when Ho Ching and Hsien Loong were overseas) on my behalf." :*:

Also, what does the "extra 1/7 share" (which seems to have been caused by the outright gift of the Cluny Hill house) mean?
If it means that she would have received 1/7 more than what she would have received in the older wills (which gave her an equal share), then her share would be 16/42 and her brothers would each receive 13/42 (instead of an equal 14/42 for each of the three siblings).

But if the "extra 1/7 share" means that she would have received 1/7 more than what EACH of her brothers would have received, then her share would be 24/66 and her brothers would each receive 21/66 (instead of an equal 22/66 for each of the three siblings).

And according to:
facebook.com/791442864357253
("As further evidence, I am sharing these e-mails establishing that LHL's allegations are false.")
drive.google.com/file/d/0B9jJAm-8bFh8VnN4aV9UaFRETkU/view
page 2 of the pdf file:

"On 11/09/12 14:54, Kuan Yew LEE (PMO) wrote to Lee Suet Fern:
Message Classification: Restricted
I wanted Cluny to stay with the family.
Mama decided that it would be a comfortable home.
But she had a major stroke in 2008. That makes Cluny too far for SGH doctors and nurses to commute. So we stayed put at Oxley.
If the two boys will be giving to Ling their share of the 40% that is in my and Mama’s estate, then it makes no sense to have any trust or codicil to try and keep
Cluny in the estate of the two boys. I had thought it would be a good family heir
loom for one of the grandchildren to stay at Cluny.
But it is a fancy to believe that any grandchild would feel any emotional
attachment to Cluny Hill.
So let it go whichever way the boys decide. My estate will go in three equal
shares to my three children.
If they give their shares to Ling then so be it."

View attachment 30736

it seems that the Cluny Hill house was owned by her mother (KGC), who bequeathed 40% of it to LKY and the remaining 60% (20% each) to her three children after she died in 2010.
So in order for LWL to receive the "extra 1/7 share" (from the "Sixth Will" in late 2012) because of receiving 100% of that house, LKY would have to give her (instead of his two sons) the remaining 2/3 of his 40% share, and her two brothers would also have to sell their shares (total 40%, which they had been owning since before LKY died) to her (either before or after LKY's death in 2015).
If that's the case, then it looks like the 2/3 of LKY's 40% share of that house is equivalent to either 2/42 or 2/66 of LKY's estate/net worth!

If 2/42, then 40% of that house would be equivalent to 3/42, and 100% would be 7.5/42 (or 15/84); meaning that if that house is worth S$90 million (not S$100 million, so that dividing 90 by 15 results in a whole number, i.e. 6), then LKY's estate/net worth was S$90 million /15 x 84 = S$504 million!?!?! :*:

If 2/66, then 40% of that house would be equivalent to 3/66, and 100% would be 7.5/66 (or 15/132); meaning that if that house is worth S$90 million (not S$100 million, so that dividing 90 by 15 results in a whole number, i.e. 6), then LKY's estate/net worth was S$90 million /15 x 132 = S$792 million!?!?! :*:

Please correct me if my calculations are wrong. :o

 

[PTADER]

So is Shan saying that there was no conflict of interest because he was already a cabinet minister when he advised LKY on his Will?

Does that mean Shan was advising LKY in his capacity as Law Minister?

Which country's Law Minister goes around advising on Will, in his own words, "at the behest" of a civilian? I also want him to advise me on my last Will leh.

This double-headed snake of a double-dealing dog adopted a simple sleight of hand and words to deliberately mislead everyone in his attempt to wriggle out of LHY's "conflict of interest (COI)" charge against him. He did it by choosing to cunningly define LHY's "general" COI charge within the specific context of the "Legal Profession Act (Chapter 161), Legal Profession (Professional Conduct) Rules 2015".

The entire Act and Rules, specifically Rules 20, 21, 22 (matters concerning COI) and Rule 47 (Giving of free legal advice) no longer applied/applies to him as he was already a Minister (during that period), and was not a practising lawyer.

Notwithstanding this, LHY's charge against this double-dealing dog is entirely true and valid. No one needs to be a son or daughter of LKY, or to be familiar with the legal concept of "conflict of interest" to sense that it cannot be right for this dog to have "helped and "advised" LKY and the two siblings back then on a subject matter of which he is now deliberating on, in his position as a member of the secret committee for the "opposing" side.

This dog is in breach of LHL's own "Rules of Prudence". In addition, he is guilty of conflict of interest not only in the moral and ethical sense but also as spelt out in the "Code of Conduct for Ministers" that has been in existence since 1954. If applied, it would warrant this dog's immediate removal from office.

The huge problem of course is that first born is also in breach of his own "Rules of Prudence" as well as the "Code of Conduct for Ministers". Hence, this dog has first born's balls on a vice-like grip. First born has zero moral authority to act on this dog and cannot remove him from office without fucking himself up completely.

To put it colloquially, this is call ownself fuck ownself.

 

[nayr69sg]

No such thing as a legal definition for conflict of interest. Professional and trade bodies prohibit members from a series of practices and activities that falls within this unacceptable form of conduct. One example is having relationship with your patient or your client or your supplier or your service provider. Shanmugam threw a smoke grenade and some thought there is indeed technical legal definition. Even organisations that do not spell these within their code of conduct have dismissed employees on these grounds.

Example: My employer have never specified that I should not punch my colleague and I did. I will probably be sacked and for good reason.

Actually conflict of interest is rampant in Singapore. In the Lee case there is already potential conflict of interest in having Kwa Kim Li prepare wills for her uncle. Lee Suet Fern's firm being involved in any way. Lee and Lee doing work on HDB.

Many doctors I know in Singapore would prescribe for family members and access their medical records.

It is "accepted" practice in Asia.

 

[rushifa666]

Actually conflict of interest is rampant in Singapore. In the Lee case there is already potential conflict of interest in having Kwa Kim Li prepare wills for her uncle. Lee Suet Fern's firm being involved in any way. Lee and Lee doing work on HDB.

Many doctors I know in Singapore would prescribe for family members and access their medical records.

It is "accepted" practice in Asia.

Accepted practice in Asia is like Scottish premier league or human rights in Middle East. Has never been worth anything

 

[eatshitndie]

Actually conflict of interest is rampant in Singapore. In the Lee case there is already potential conflict of interest in having Kwa Kim Li prepare wills for her uncle. Lee Suet Fern's firm being involved in any way. Lee and Lee doing work on HDB.

Many doctors I know in Singapore would prescribe for family members and access their medical records.

It is "accepted" practice in Asia.

it also happens in angmo cuntry. where one of my homes is, the hoa chairwoman is also a real estate agent representing sellers and buyers. in several cases, she is agent to both seller and buyer collecting commissions and fees from all sides. agent kickbacks, also contravening agencies' code of conduct, are also rampant. before the housing bust 10 years ago, agent could hire own appraiser, and appraiser would jack up values to give agent boost in commissions and cover own kickbacks. now, lending banks hire their own appraisers. another of my homes in another city has a hoa where a long time treasurer and secretary is engaged in conflicts of interest. he has a good buddy who is a partner of a painting company and he keeps hiring them to paint all buildings in the sprawling estate, not every 6.9 years which is the norm but every 3 years. looks like he's getting a kickback from his buddy. nothing to fret about unless hoa dues go up. i do jaga work but surf the web for better jaga jobs while on the job. that's coi too.

 

[zhihau]

just heard 938FM interview update with lhy. sounded like matter settled.

whole epidose all for nothing. siann ahh...

It's the 11th hour since the last post from Ling... are you holding your breath?

 

[tyudm]

This double-headed snake of a double-dealing dog adopted a simple sleigh of hand and words to deliberately mislead everyone in his attempt to wriggle out of LHY "conflict of interest (COI)" charge against him. He did it by choosing to cunningly define LHY's "general" COI charge within the specific context of the "Legal Profession Act (Chapter 161), Legal Profession (Professional Conduct) Rules 2015".

The entire Act and Rules, specifically Rules 20, 21, 22 (matters concerning COI) and Rule 47 (Giving of free legal advice) no longer applied/applies to him as he was already a Minister (during that period), and was not a practising lawyer.

Notwithstanding this, LHY's charge against this double-dealing dog is entirely true and valid. No one needs to be a son or daughter of LKY, or to be familiar with the legal concept of "conflict of interest" to sense that it cannot be right for this dog to have "helped and "advised" LKY and the two siblings back then on a subject matter of which he is now deliberating on, in his position as a member of the secret committee for the "opposing" side.

This dog is in breach of LHL's own "Rules of Prudence". In addition, he is guilty of conflict of interest not only in the moral and ethical sense but also as spelt out in the "Code of Conduct for Ministers" that has been in existence since 1954. If applied, it would warrant this dog's immediate removal from office.

The huge problem of course is that first born is also in breach of his own "Rules of Prudence" as well as the "Code of Conduct for Ministers". Hence, this dog has first born's balls on a vice-like grip. First born has zero moral authority to act on this dog and cannot remove him from office without fucking himself up completely.

To put it colloquially, this is call ownself fuck ownself.

Very well written but the problem is, in Singapore context, conflict of interest is defined by PAP not Wikipedia or the commoners. Not forgetting the AG's Chamber is under his thumb.

 

[tyudm]

It's the 11th hour since the last post from Ling... are you holding your breath?

Yes hold your breath. LHL relented and approved to grant LKY last wish but demolition is subject to government approval. More to come.

 

[Patriot]

 

[zhihau]

Yes hold your breath. LHL relented and approved to grant LKY last wish but demolition is subject to government approval. More to come.

Yang shared a link from SCMP half an hour ago but nothing from Ling... Ling still asleep?

 

[yellowarse]

Taiwanese financial talk show actually used the phrase 'Lee Dynasty' (李氏王朝), the first foreign media to do so in this saga!

[video=youtube;XO_DzNgnXQI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO_DzNgnXQI[/video]

 

[zhihau]

IMAGE

Bro,
it's in post 846

 

[scroobal]

HO Ching married to the then Minister of Finance who was also her husband while running the sovereign fund. Wife reporting to the husband which is unheard off. And this country allowed it and GCT set the tone as it happened in his watch.

Actually conflict of interest is rampant in Singapore. In the Lee case there is already potential conflict of interest in having Kwa Kim Li prepare wills for her uncle. Lee Suet Fern's firm being involved in any way. Lee and Lee doing work on HDB.

Many doctors I know in Singapore would prescribe for family members and access their medical records.

It is "accepted" practice in Asia.

 

[Goldcheekon]

What is so sinister about the whole saga seems to be Loong "pretended" to settle by selling 38Ox to Yang and then get his friend TCH and gang to convene a secret committee to reclaim it back. No?

Yang and Ling of course felt betrayed by this and went on an onslaught. Loong instead of fulfilling LKY wish tekan the siblings financially and surreptitiously via state organs.

 

[GoldenDragon]

What is so sinister about the whole saga seems to be Loong "pretended" to settle by selling 38Ox to Yang and then get his friend TCH and gang to convene a secret committee to reclaim it back. No?

Yang and Ling of course felt betrayed by this and went on an onslaught. Loong instead of fulfilling LKY wish tekan the siblings financially and surreptitiously via state organs.

Spot on. It's win-win for Pinky. Get money from younger bro first. Then let the committee decide. Meaning he has final say on 38. What a greedy bastard!

 

[scroobal]

Impressive. The 2 scenarios 42, 66 are the 2 likely possibilities based on limited information. When he got caught over Nassim Jade, he pleaded pitifully that Nassim Jade was going to be his retirement home and that it would be his second property that he owned after 38. And therefore Cluny was in his wife's name only. He was always cautious of his own wealth for political reasons. In his memoirs he mentioned that he bought his merc before becoming PM to avoid any allegation. His wife became the bank.

But that was in late 2012, when the so-called "Sixth Will" (not the "Last Will" a year later in late 2013, which reinstated equal shares of the Estate) was made:
sammyboy.com/showthread.php?244311-Lee-Wei-Ling-amp-Lee-Hsien-Yang-condemns-Lee-Hsien-Loong&p=2614231#post2614231

By the way, it looks like LWL also contradicted herself in her above Facebook post (and her e-mails worsened her contradiction) when she claimed that "Hsien Yang and his wife were never informed of this extra share", even though "It was in fact my sister-in-law, Suet Fern, who interceded with my father (when Ho Ching and Hsien Loong were overseas) on my behalf." :*:

Also, what does the "extra 1/7 share" (which seems to have been caused by the outright gift of the Cluny Hill house) mean?
If it means that she would have received 1/7 more than what she would have received in the older wills (which gave her an equal share), then her share would be 16/42 and her brothers would each receive 13/42 (instead of an equal 14/42 for each of the three siblings).

But if the "extra 1/7 share" means that she would have received 1/7 more than what EACH of her brothers would have received, then her share would be 24/66 and her brothers would each receive 21/66 (instead of an equal 22/66 for each of the three siblings).

And according to:
facebook.com/791442864357253
("As further evidence, I am sharing these e-mails establishing that LHL's allegations are false.")
drive.google.com/file/d/0B9jJAm-8bFh8VnN4aV9UaFRETkU/view
page 2 of the pdf file:

"On 11/09/12 14:54, Kuan Yew LEE (PMO) wrote to Lee Suet Fern:
Message Classification: Restricted
I wanted Cluny to stay with the family.
Mama decided that it would be a comfortable home.
But she had a major stroke in 2008. That makes Cluny too far for SGH doctors and nurses to commute. So we stayed put at Oxley.
If the two boys will be giving to Ling their share of the 40% that is in my and Mama’s estate, then it makes no sense to have any trust or codicil to try and keep
Cluny in the estate of the two boys. I had thought it would be a good family heir
loom for one of the grandchildren to stay at Cluny.
But it is a fancy to believe that any grandchild would feel any emotional
attachment to Cluny Hill.
So let it go whichever way the boys decide. My estate will go in three equal
shares to my three children.
If they give their shares to Ling then so be it."

View attachment 30736

it seems that the Cluny Hill house was owned by her mother (KGC), who bequeathed 40% of it to LKY and the remaining 60% (20% each) to her three children after she died in 2010.
So in order for LWL to receive the "extra 1/7 share" (from the "Sixth Will" in late 2012) because of receiving 100% of that house, LKY would have to give her (instead of his two sons) the remaining 2/3 of his 40% share, and her two brothers would also have to sell their shares (total 40%, which they had been owning since before LKY died) to her (either before or after LKY's death in 2015).
If that's the case, then it looks like the 2/3 of LKY's 40% share of that house is equivalent to either 2/42 or 2/66 of LKY's estate/net worth!

If 2/42, then 40% of that house would be equivalent to 3/42, and 100% would be 7.5/42 (or 15/84); meaning that if that house is worth S$90 million (not S$100 million, so that dividing 90 by 15 results in a whole number, i.e. 6), then LKY's estate/net worth was S$504 million!?!?! :*:

If 2/66, then 40% of that house would be equivalent to 3/66, and 100% would be 7.5/66 (or 15/132); meaning that if that house is worth S$90 million (not S$100 million, so that dividing 90 by 15 results in a whole number, i.e. 6), then LKY's estate/net worth was S$792 million!?!?! :*:

Please correct me if my calculations are wrong. :o

 

[scroobal]

Yes, his undoing was the secret committee. If thad not be secret, it will be interesting if the siblings could have raised those allegations. Conduct gives away the agenda and the intentions.

What is so sinister about the whole saga seems to be Loong "pretended" to settle by selling 38Ox to Yang and then get his friend TCH and gang to convene a secret committee to reclaim it back. No?

Yang and Ling of course felt betrayed by this and went on an onslaught. Loong instead of fulfilling LKY wish tekan the siblings financially and surreptitiously via state organs.