Iskandar Residences @ Medini

[mpan12]

I always prefer to call a spade a spade. Don't look at things any worse or better than they are. KNOW YOUR RISKS. That's the key point. Here's someone's sharing about CLOB shares:

SATURDAY, 2 MARCH 2013

The CLOB shares saga

"Although I am Singaporean, the first shares that I had were Malaysian shares.

In the old days, we could purchase Malaysian shares in Singapore through over-the-counter trade, the so-called Central Limit Order Book, or CLOB, as the market was known.

When I ventured out from the safe harbour of Fixed Deposit, I bought into CLOB shares, as they were "very "hot", "affordable" and "have huge growth potential" at that time. I bought into several counters and if I remember correctly, one of the counters was UEM. I can't remember the other two counters now as the companies are probably no longer in existence.

Unluckily, a couple of months after I bought into CLOB shares, Malaysia unexpectedly introduced capital controls on Sept 1, 1998 (Asian Financial Crisis) and declared the trading of Malaysian shares on Singapore's Clob International to be illegal. This caused the value of Malaysian shares traded on CLOB to freeze and we watched helplessly and in horror their values nose-dived steeply.

Or maybe luckily for me, I had just a short "incursion" into Malaysian shares and had just a small investment there. Some of my friends and relatives are not so fortunate, they had their majority of fortune and stock portfolio in CLOB shares.

I lost 15K and this was a painful tuition fee for me."


One can very much replace this CLOB experience with Iskandar property purchase. See the similarities. Look at the above descriptions: Hot, Affordable and Huge Growth Potential. Sounds like why buyers rushed in 2013 to grab a pie of Iskandar.

Notice also how uncertain Malaysian policies are. If you are a Malaysian, maybe I'd say ok. But as a foreigner, again, Know Your Risks. Initially, RM500k was the minimum amount foreigners could buy their properties. To a lot of common Johoreans, such prices are already on the high side. Then suddenly, the amount was raised unexpectedly to RM1mil. If as a foreigner, you are not allowed to sell your property at between RM500k to 1 mil to another foreigner, and it is an amount usually out of reach for the general Johoreans, you are pretty much screwed. Your money is frozen in Bolehland.

It's just that these unfortunate foreign property buyers are not here to vent their sadness or frustrations. But if you know any of them in such a situation, you will know how they feel right now.

The guy in the article was "lucky" he lost only S$15k. I've read some lost a year's salary or even a large part of their savings. I'm not sure what happened to the CLOB saga. Did most manage to get some of their money back eventually?

 

[Frodo]

I always prefer to call a spade a spade. Don't look at things any worse or better than they are. KNOW YOUR RISKS. That's the key point. Here's someone's sharing about CLOB shares:

SATURDAY, 2 MARCH 2013

The CLOB shares saga

"Although I am Singaporean, the first shares that I had were Malaysian shares.

In the old days, we could purchase Malaysian shares in Singapore through over-the-counter trade, the so-called Central Limit Order Book, or CLOB, as the market was known.

When I ventured out from the safe harbour of Fixed Deposit, I bought into CLOB shares, as they were "very "hot", "affordable" and "have huge growth potential" at that time. I bought into several counters and if I remember correctly, one of the counters was UEM. I can't remember the other two counters now as the companies are probably no longer in existence.

Unluckily, a couple of months after I bought into CLOB shares, Malaysia unexpectedly introduced capital controls on Sept 1, 1998 (Asian Financial Crisis) and declared the trading of Malaysian shares on Singapore's Clob International to be illegal. This caused the value of Malaysian shares traded on CLOB to freeze and we watched helplessly and in horror their values nose-dived steeply.

Or maybe luckily for me, I had just a short "incursion" into Malaysian shares and had just a small investment there. Some of my friends and relatives are not so fortunate, they had their majority of fortune and stock portfolio in CLOB shares.

I lost 15K and this was a painful tuition fee for me."


One can very much replace this CLOB experience with Iskandar property purchase. See the similarities. Look at the above descriptions: Hot, Affordable and Huge Growth Potential. Sounds like why buyers rushed in 2013 to grab a pie of Iskandar.

Notice also how uncertain Malaysian policies are. If you are a Malaysian, maybe I'd say ok. But as a foreigner, again, Know Your Risks. Initially, RM500k was the minimum amount foreigners could buy their properties. To a lot of common Johoreans, such prices are already on the high side. Then suddenly, the amount was raised unexpectedly to RM1mil. If as a foreigner, you are not allowed to sell your property at between RM500k to 1 mil to another foreigner, and it is an amount usually out of reach for the general Johoreans, you are pretty much screwed. Your money is frozen in Bolehland.

It's just that these unfortunate foreign property buyers are not here to vent their sadness or frustrations. But if you know any of them in such a situation, you will know how they feel right now.

The guy in the article was "lucky" he lost only S$15k. I've read some lost a year's salary or even a large part of their savings. I'm not sure what happened to the CLOB saga. Did most manage to get some of their money back eventually?

I am not investment saavy so I don't know much about what happened back then. The little info I have gathered about the CLOB saga was that it was during the bloodbath of the Asian Financial Crisis, and the MY govt pulled out the brakes on this to stem capital flows out of the country, which left many SG investors high and dry, with many losing their life-savings. That was very unfortunate. It seems that the MY govt also provided some kind of settlement for these investors, but maybe it was not good enough. I wonder if SG would have done the same if our SG govt was in Malaysia's shoes? Some said what was done brought some stability back for Malaysia. I don't feel qualified to comment on this.

http://www.mas.gov.sg/news-and-publ...liamentary-question-on-clob--12-oct-1998.aspx

I am not sure if property purchases in JB should be seen through the eyes of CLOB saga. One is liquidity issue, rapid cash outflows that destabilises the financial system of the country, whereas properties are sitting tight in the country and not that movable or monetised. One can say that the MY Govt can always screw the Singaporean with a prata policy, but maybe desperate times do call for desperate measures. Each Govt will do what it think is right for its own people primarily, even if there are collateral damage. Which is why I also wonder if SG might do something similar if the tables were turned?

 

[mpan12]

I am not investment saavy so I don't know much about what happened back then. The little info I have gathered about the CLOB saga was that it was during the bloodbath of the Asian Financial Crisis, and the MY govt pulled out the brakes on this to stem capital flows out of the country, which left many SG investors high and dry, with many losing their life-savings. That was very unfortunate. It seems that the MY govt also provided some kind of settlement for these investors, but maybe it was not good enough. I wonder if SG would have done the same if our SG govt was in Malaysia's shoes? Some said what was done brought some stability back for Malaysia. I don't feel qualified to comment on this.

http://www.mas.gov.sg/news-and-publ...liamentary-question-on-clob--12-oct-1998.aspx

I am not sure if property purchases in JB should be seen through the eyes of CLOB saga. One is liquidity issue, rapid cash outflows that destabilises the financial system of the country, whereas properties are sitting tight in the country and not that movable or monetised. One can say that the MY Govt can always screw the Singaporean with a prata policy, but maybe desperate times do call for desperate measures. Each Govt will do what it think is right for its own people primarily, even if there are collateral damage. Which is why I also wonder if SG might do something similar if the tables were turned?

Property purchase in Iskandar in RECENT TIMES (not pre-2013) have some similarity in that people rushed in thinking it's cheap and they can make good money. It's just like CLOB.

Yes, the government in different countries can implement stiff measures to cool the market. For eg, in Singapore, there are the usual restrictions we are familiar with. In Australia recently, banks have refused to lend to foreigners. That's fair enough.

But I've not heard of any other countries besides Malaysia where their government increases the purchase price of properties for foreign buyers. That's essentially penalizing those who bought theirs earlier. To put it bluntly, such a move locks up foreign capital in the country which could be a few hundred millions or billions in RM. That's similar to CLOB also.

Would anyone dare predict a minimum purchase price of RM1.5 mil for foreigners will not happen in future, assuming the market gets better? Just when buyers thought they could sell their properties to other foreigners, they get stuck unexpectedly.

Of course, this may not affect all buyers. Some want to keep their Malaysian properties till eternity. So like I said, consider the various risks well first.

 

[sgcount]

Latest August 2016 updates. Got these from another website:

 

[Frodo]

Property purchase in Iskandar in RECENT TIMES (not pre-2013) have some similarity in that people rushed in thinking it's cheap and they can make good money. It's just like CLOB.

Yes, the government in different countries can implement stiff measures to cool the market. For eg, in Singapore, there are the usual restrictions we are familiar with. In Australia recently, banks have refused to lend to foreigners. That's fair enough.

But I've not heard of any other countries besides Malaysia where their government increases the purchase price of properties for foreign buyers. That's essentially penalizing those who bought theirs earlier. To put it bluntly, such a move locks up foreign capital in the country which could be a few hundred millions or billions in RM. That's similar to CLOB also.

Would anyone dare predict a minimum purchase price of RM1.5 mil for foreigners will not happen in future, assuming the market gets better? Just when buyers thought they could sell their properties to other foreigners, they get stuck unexpectedly.

Of course, this may not affect all buyers. Some want to keep their Malaysian properties till eternity. So like I said, consider the various risks well first.

The MY Govt probably has its own objectives in setting minimum property prices that foreigners can buy. It's a matter of allocation, because who doesn't want to buy cheaper properties? Without these purchase restrictions then the "greedy" Singaporeans will "sup kah liao", one Singaporean perhaps buying a few. In my view, increasing the minimum purchase price still understandable, but the rule about foreigner only selling to foreigner does not make sense.

 

[Tekkun]

The MY Govt probably has its own objectives in setting minimum property prices that foreigners can buy. It's a matter of allocation, because who doesn't want to buy cheaper properties? Without these purchase restrictions then the "greedy" Singaporeans will "sup kah liao", one Singaporean perhaps buying a few. In my view, increasing the minimum purchase price still understandable, but the rule about foreigner only selling to foreigner does not make sense.

In Australia, foreigners can only buy new units or land for development. If foreigner want to sell, they can only sell to locals, regardless of price or type of dwellings. If no locals want to buy, then mati liao. Forever cannot exit. Lately they change the laws a bit. Any old developments being torn down and redevelop is considered as old, foreigners cannot buy and can only be sold to locals.

 

[Frodo]

Latest August 2016 updates. Got these from another website:

So long as cranes are moving, people are working, it is a good sign!

 

[Tekkun]

So long as cranes are moving, people are working, it is a good sign!

No one can be seen. No cars also.
Err..who took the picture?

 

[Frodo]

No one can be seen. No cars also.
Err..who took the picture?

Lunch time! Or maybe siesta time!:p

 

[rotikok]

In Australia, foreigners can only buy new units or land for development. If foreigner want to sell, they can only sell to locals, regardless of price or type of dwellings. If no locals want to buy, then mati liao. Forever cannot exit. Lately they change the laws a bit. Any old developments being torn down and redevelop is considered as old, foreigners cannot buy and can only be sold to locals.

Great that you knew on something xebay not wanting to disclose.

 

[sgcount]

No one can be seen. No cars also.
Err..who took the picture?

I asked all the cars and people to move aside first. Then I took the pictures.

Ok seriously, to be honest, that's the condition of the place! I was there before. Whether you go weekdays or weekends, morning or afternoon, there are hardly any cars on the road. As for people, even worse. Hardly any in sight. Go at night, the place is as quiet as a graveyard. If you faint there, there is a chance no one will know it!

I do feel it is a cause for concern if one is thinking about renting out a unit there. I was told 1 Medini beside it has only a few units occupied so far.

These are some pictures I took previously:

Will it become the commonly predicted "GHOST TOWN"??! *dread*

 

[snowbird]

I am not investment saavy so I don't know much about what happened back then. The little info I have gathered about the CLOB saga was that it was during the bloodbath of the Asian Financial Crisis, and the MY govt pulled out the brakes on this to stem capital flows out of the country, which left many SG investors high and dry, with many losing their life-savings. That was very unfortunate. It seems that the MY govt also provided some kind of settlement for these investors, but maybe it was not good enough. I wonder if SG would have done the same if our SG govt was in Malaysia's shoes? Some said what was done brought some stability back for Malaysia. I don't feel qualified to comment on this.

http://www.mas.gov.sg/news-and-publ...liamentary-question-on-clob--12-oct-1998.aspx

I am not sure if property purchases in JB should be seen through the eyes of CLOB saga. One is liquidity issue, rapid cash outflows that destabilises the financial system of the country, whereas properties are sitting tight in the country and not that movable or monetised. One can say that the MY Govt can always screw the Singaporean with a prata policy, but maybe desperate times do call for desperate measures. Each Govt will do what it think is right for its own people primarily, even if there are collateral damage. Which is why I also wonder if SG might do something similar if the tables were turned?

The essence of the whole issue is just that when you invest in another country, any form of investment, never mind if it is just walking distance away, you are subjected to all the rules as a foreigner.
Many things a local can or allowed to do, you can't and with "a stroke of a pen" new rules and regulations can be implemented instantly, everything can change overnight and you're at its mercy.
The CLOB saga is one good example where Singaporeans were caught totally by surprise and billions$$$ of their money were stuck in MY and they can't do a thing.
The current property investment is not much different from the CLOB saga.
What you knew about the saga is the aftermath but at that point in time, info was lacking and no one is wiser and have no idea what is going to happen next and this can cause high anxiety

In an event the prices of properties goes southwards or the owner may just wants to exit with losses but have problems selling it off as quickly as you wanted.
He could not even find a buyer so he just has to wait out instead of cashing out and continue paying the loan while the property price depreciates.
With the sluggish market now, coupled with thousands of unsold new units plus another thousands of newly completed units already in the resale market, the resale market in the next few years is going to be extremely tough.
MY had implemented capital control before during the financial crisis and it doesn't means they will not do again when the financial situation worsens when RM continue to drop and national reserve shrinks even further.
Do you know what will happened to investors when capital control kicks in?
There are no pros but all cons!

 

[Frodo]

The essence of the whole issue is just that when you invest in another country, any form of investment, never mind if it is just walking distance away, you are subjected to all the rules as a foreigner.
Many things a local can or allowed to do, you can't and with "a stroke of a pen" new rules and regulations can be implemented instantly, everything can change overnight and you're at its mercy.
The CLOB saga is one good example where Singaporeans were caught totally by surprise and billions$$$ of their money were stuck in MY and they can't do a thing.
The current property investment is not much different from the CLOB saga.
What you knew about the saga is the aftermath but at that point in time, info was lacking and no one is wiser and have no idea what is going to happen next and this can cause high anxiety

In an event the prices of properties goes southwards or the owner may just wants to exit with losses but have problems selling it off as quickly as you wanted.
He could not even find a buyer so he just has to wait out instead of cashing out and continue paying the loan while the property price depreciates.
With the sluggish market now, coupled with thousands of unsold new units plus another thousands of newly completed units already in the resale market, the resale market in the next few years is going to be extremely tough.
MY had implemented capital control before during the financial crisis and it doesn't means they will not do again when the financial situation worsens when RM continue to drop and national reserve shrinks even further.
Do you know what will happened to investors when capital control kicks in?
There are no pros but all cons!

I guess it comes with the territory! To be sure that one is not caught by this, the only thing is to never invest in other countries, even if it is done in Singapore, like the CLOB counters.

 

[snowbird]

I guess it comes with the territory! To be sure that one is not caught by this, the only thing is to never invest in other countries, even if it is done in Singapore, like the CLOB counters.

No, never say never.
The important thing to do when investing in foreign countries is to go in with eyes opened wide and not based on hearsay, especially realty agents' words.
Don't just look at all the positive and beautiful things on the outside but neglect all the fine prints and hidden negativities.
Know the political situation there, the investment climate, the rules and regulations affecting you and of cause, your own financial resources and pain level if things fail.
In property, it is easy to buy but can you sell as easily later, many people are totally ignorant on this?
Follow the herd and you become part of the herd.

 

[mpan12]

Not that cannot invest in foreign countries but know thy risks, as I have repeated many times. Problem is, many don't know and just chiong in. Singaporeans are such. Got money but very gullible. That's why scammers love to target them. Where are all the agents who promoted Iskandar in 2013? Gone liao!

In 2013, I spoke to the manager of a stable and well-known Malaysian developer. She told me a long grandfather story why must invest in Medini, Iskandar. (Hint: Quite near Legoland.) Later, I learned that she had resigned and worked in another company. She couldn't recognize me. I pretended to ask her about Iskandar again. She said "Don't buy Iskandar for investment! Hard to rent and sell next time. Buy only if you want to stay there."

What liars these people.....

I guess it comes with the territory! To be sure that one is not caught by this, the only thing is to never invest in other countries, even if it is done in Singapore, like the CLOB counters.

 

[Tekkun]

Not that cannot invest in foreign countries but know thy risks, as I have repeated many times. Problem is, many don't know and just chiong in. Singaporeans are such. Got money but very gullible. That's why scammers love to target them. Where are all the agents who promoted Iskandar in 2013? Gone liao!

In 2013, I spoke to the manager of a stable and well-known Malaysian developer. She told me a long grandfather story why must invest in Medini, Iskandar. (Hint: Quite near Legoland.) Later, I learned that she had resigned and worked in another company. She couldn't recognize me. I pretended to ask her about Iskandar again. She said "Don't buy Iskandar for investment! Hard to rent and sell next time. Buy only if you want to stay there."

What liars these people.....

I believe you are talking about Mah Sing.
They are a local aggressive developer known to buy, build, deliver and move on to another project type. They do not stay back to market or ensure the project is successful or not. They are builders, not managers but they will deliver.
Their marketing team is the same. Hard sell and move on.

 

[mpan12]

Wah... scary. Why you so smart? Maybe cos they are the biggest boy in Medini. Haha... but I didn't say anything.

Actually, it doesn't matter who the developer is or what style they have. Of course all developers are in it for the money. No developer will say "Let's sit back and watch first. We don't want the buyers to lose money if they buy the wrong product."

The reason why they so steady pom pom increased price to RM800 psf in 2013 from initial launch price of only RM400 in 2012 was also because of greed. They saw so many Singaporeans and foreigners chionnnnnnggg all the way. How not to increase price?

Go look at the old posts here. Some still gong-gong say Wahhh...Good news. My property price increased by so much within just a year! But when they try to sell even at RM500+ psf, there are no takers. When those ultra expensive RM800psf condos are ready end next year, sell or rent to who? Can't make money de....

My point is, if really want to invest, must open eyes big big.

I believe you are talking about Mah Sing.
They are a local aggressive developer known to buy, build, deliver and move on to another project type. They do not stay back to market or ensure the project is successful or not. They are builders, not managers but they will deliver.
Their marketing team is the same. Hard sell and move on.

 

[Tekkun]

Hopeless begin with the word HOPE.
Without hope, there would be no dreams.

 

[snowbird]

Hopeless begin with the word HOPE.
Without hope, there would be no dreams.

Hoping on empty is pure daydreaming.

 

[Tekkun]

Hoping on empty is pure daydreaming.

Then go elsewhere where you can hope.
Like I say many times, please go back to where you come from. JB has no future for these type of people.