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Is Singapore Opposition Talented ???

A

Alu862

Guest
It took many years for women to be given the right to vote, for child labour to be stopped, for blacks and minority races to have equal rights in America. Democracies and Human Rights--what a joke.

The question to ask is who is able to replace the present govt should it be toppled? Iraq, Russia, some Eastern European governments are still no better off than they were under communism.

Development Economists have noted that Democracy is not strongly related to strong growth
 
A

Alu862

Guest
I did not say protest should not occur--fine let them occur, let there be civil disobidence.

But think, who can replace the leadership? Do you think a revolution is the cure for the country? And will civil disobidence not scare away investors?
 

chinkangkor

Alfrescian
Loyal
I did not say protest should not occur--fine let them occur, let there be civil disobidence.

But think, who can replace the leadership? Do you think a revolution is the cure for the country? And will civil disobidence not scare away investors?

Even if you want a revolution, you think the more than 85% of S'poreans with HDB properties will allow it? Think again before you use that word revolution. Do you think civil disobedience will cause social or political instability? I certainly don't think so.

Any change of govt will be through the ballot box, which at present, no political parties are able to challenge the PAP.
 
A

Alu862

Guest
Even if you want a revolution, you think the more than 85% of S'poreans with HDB properties will allow it? Think again before you use that word revolution. Do you think civil disobedience will cause social or political instability? I certainly don't think so.

Any change of govt will be through the ballot box, which at present, no political parties are able to challenge the PAP.

No political parties can challenge because human rights is not the only answer. People want to know what economic foreign and domestic policies will be in place. The WP has given a marginal ans only.
 
A

Alu862

Guest
Remember, from President Johnson to Presidentr Bush, no American President has criticised Singapore govt outright. No HR condemnations, no sanctions no threat of isolation

Same for the UN and other Western countries.
 

chinkangkor

Alfrescian
Loyal
It took many years for women to be given the right to vote, for child labour to be stopped, for blacks and minority races to have equal rights in America. Democracies and Human Rights--what a joke.

The question to ask is who is able to replace the present govt should it be toppled? Iraq, Russia, some Eastern European governments are still no better off than they were under communism.

Development Economists have noted that Democracy is not strongly related to strong growth

If the women and blacks had not taken civil disobedience actions to demand to be treated equally, they would not have been able to enjoy equal rights today. The oppressed took very long to start their actions, that's why they were subjugated for very long.

The question to ask is whether the oppositions can find enough suitably qualified candidates to contest in the next GE so that there will not be so many walkovers.
 

chinkangkor

Alfrescian
Loyal
Remember, from President Johnson to Presidentr Bush, no American President has criticised Singapore govt outright. No HR condemnations, no sanctions no threat of isolation

Same for the UN and other Western countries.

PAP governing style may be authoritarian but it does not conduct assasination of political opponents, just sue them using compliant judges.

That's why the judiciary here has been criticised by international jurist commission, international bar association etc for not having fair trials in political cases.

If you want to know more on how US sees S'pore, go read the report by US Department of State.
 

borom

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
........Look at other countries with freedom of speeches. Just take a look at nearest Malaysia and Thailand, Indonesia. Demonstrations, rallies, affecting economy, businesses, everyone's pockets. In the end, WHO SUFFER? It's the people. Irresponsible people who make irresponsible speeches deserves to get sued. And hopefully should get sued to death.

In non political areas, we always say we want to be world class and compare with best practices worldwide-but when it comes to politics we only compare with our neighbours -why?

In the past, Israel, Switzerland and Japan were used as our role models -but it was stopped-and I noticed all three are truly democratic countries with vibrate oppositions.
Even Israel ,a country constantly at war does not use it as an excuse to curb freedom of expression.In fact,I remember reading reports of Israeli army reservist officers openly dmonstrating against their Chief because of what they felt were wrong policies.

Why not look at South Korea, France ect,economies far ahead of us and with very constant protest and strikes-you will not hear political leaders saying there must be no protest or strikes because it will harm the economy.
What makes you think the people of Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia are suffering? Have you heard of Malaysians,Thais or Indonesians migrating overseas because they want to have less freedom in exchange for more economic growth ? It is a matter of choice- they choose to have freedom even at the cost of slower economic growth.
The issue is-do we have a choice and can we exercise it freely and without fear?
Does it take more guts to speak up or just follow orders like sheeps?
 

chinkangkor

Alfrescian
Loyal
No political parties can challenge because human rights is not the only answer. People want to know what economic foreign and domestic policies will be in place. The WP has given a marginal ans only.

No political parties can challenge the ruling party because the oppositions have been systematically oppressed and their activities suppressed. LKY's iron fist has stymied the growth of opposition parties.

The whole society has been depoliticised to the extent that the ruling party has also faced problems in recruiting able candidates for cabinet positions.
 

kakowi

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think all these arguments are meaningless.

Even the question "is singapore opposition talented?"

Why?

Because does it mean that the people will vote for the opposition if they are talented?​

I came across these words, "if i become the person that the people i want to protect want, then i probably won't have to worry about losing them"

so what do the people want from their politicians?

my MP is talented and probably makes a difference to the lives of the RC chairmen

talent is good, but not a major thing especially if the talent is applied to enriching themselves and the quality of their lives...remember 'get off my elite uncaring face"?

so what do the people want from their politicians?
 
A

Alu862

Guest
Naturally Singaporeans are utility chasers and maximisers and they don't voted rationally. But the same goes for many other voters overseas.

Galdy you discover that opposition failures are not caused by the PAP alone. THE SDP still however has no other plan but to discredit the govt. I do not wish to see a weak govt as replacement. Democratic change may not always be for the better
 
A

Alu862

Guest
No political parties can challenge the ruling party because the oppositions have been systematically oppressed and their activities suppressed. LKY's iron fist has stymied the growth of opposition parties.

The whole society has been depoliticised to the extent that the ruling party has also faced problems in recruiting able candidates for cabinet positions.

Do not blame the PAP for all the opposition's failures. Look at your self righteous arrogant self first.
 
A

Alu862

Guest
PAP governing style may be authoritarian but it does not conduct assasination of political opponents, just sue them using compliant judges.

That's why the judiciary here has been criticised by international jurist commission, international bar association etc for not having fair trials in political cases.

If you want to know more on how US sees S'pore, go read the report by US Department of State.

The state department report is not a powerful criticism.
 

kakowi

Alfrescian
Loyal
deleted because politics being what they are, my question can be misinterpreted
 
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chinkangkor

Alfrescian
Loyal
Galdy you discover that opposition failures are not caused by the PAP alone. THE SDP still however has no other plan but to discredit the govt. I do not wish to see a weak govt as replacement. Democratic change may not always be for the better

SDP has pointed out the flaws of the S'pore system for all to see. By rectifying these flaws, the S'pore system will be strengthen further.
 

chinkangkor

Alfrescian
Loyal
Do not blame the PAP for all the opposition's failures. Look at your self righteous arrogant self first.

PAP has systematically misused its power to persecute and prosecute political opponents that it deems to be a threat to its absolute hold on power.

You have a lot of reading to catch up.
 
A

Alu862

Guest
PAP has systematically misused its power to persecute and prosecute political opponents that it deems to be a threat to its absolute hold on power.

You have a lot of reading to catch up.

Please don't belittle me. I know that. I am disappointed with Chee's conduct of a political party--all protest and no policies. No plan foward. Yes, topple the current leadership. But I do not want a leader with no plan to step foward. That is pareto inoptimal.
 

chinkangkor

Alfrescian
Loyal
Please don't belittle me. I know that. I am disappointed with Chee's conduct of a political party--all protest and no policies. No plan foward. Yes, topple the current leadership. But I do not want a leader with no plan to step foward. That is pareto inoptimal.

Chee's plan is to empower the people so that more people can step forward to serve in the opposition camps and participate in the political process.
 
A

Alu862

Guest
Chee's plan is to empower the people so that more people can step forward to serve in the opposition camps and participate in the political process.

Then be a private activist. Give the SDP to real people who can gather support and win elections. Do not say that the PAP is to blame for every opposition failure. SDP is the ONLY party to have the largest fall in the number of votes, to lose three good seats in parliament every since this IV drip hunger strike Dr. took over.
 

Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Sorry to say this, but Dr. Chee's has been more effective empowering the government and the police than the people.
 
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