Inadequate Public Transportation

[Highfalutin]

MORE GOOD YEARS!
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[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

Have seen it in London on some tube lines where the intervals are 20 secs.


Thanks

Locke

 

[Ramseth]

actually PAP shd not increase the population anymore ... keep it at 5 million, no more no less ...

less than 5 million means not enuff $$ to pay the million dollar ministers & their CEO cronies, ok fair enuff then, keep it at 5 million but do not incrase anymore, we can't accomodate anymore ...

I heard that the target is 8 million, probably to give leeway for next round of ministerial payrise.

 

[Ramseth]

Highfalutin, good video and nice job, pushing girl's backside.

 

[Zombie]

Facts and figures pointed clearly to the fact that SMRT has REDUCED the trains back in 2004, from 2003.

sbstransit's nel started in mid-2003, plus many bus services were subsequently changed to make more people (esp serangoon, hougang, sengkang) shift to nel...

 

[Glaringly]

sbstransit's nel started in mid-2003, plus many bus services were subsequently changed to make more people (esp serangoon, hougang, sengkang) shift to nel...

Thank you. That explains why the 11% drop and no alarm bells were ringing.

GMS, back to the drawing board.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I have seen it in HK too.

However the situation is a bit different here, depending on the distance between stations.

My point is that, yes, we will have to increase the frequency first. But I do not think that will be enough in the long run. I don't have the figures with me yet but I think the rate of usage of the MRT might be lower than HK in terms of percentage to population.

We must bear in mind that the increase in population will result in non-linear increase in demand for MRT. The reason is simple, there are just that amount of road that could cater to that maximum amount of cars. Thus, when the breaking point is reached, any additional increase in population might have a double or even triple impact on the demand of public transportation.

Thus, in the end, do we have the luxury of choice then?

Goh Meng Seng

Dear GMS

Have seen it in London on some tube lines where the intervals are 20 secs.


Thanks

Locke

 

[Glaringly]

While you are arguing about having longer train or improve timing, don't forget to consider the circle line, when it comes in fulll swing, will take off some of the load on exisiting lines.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I really love Hong Kong's transparency! All data are made available, even segregated data!

http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/investrelation/patronage.php#search

The above is Hong Kong MTR data. By month to by the year.

For 2008, the total number of trips made for the train system minus the airport express is about 1.2 billion. This is almost 2.5 times more than Singapore MRT! But Hong Kong's population is just about 7million, 2 million more than Singapore or 1.4 times more than Singapore.

http://www.censtatd.gov.hk/hong_kong_statistics/statistics_by_subject/index.jsp

It actually means that more Hong Kongers are taking public transport than Singapore in proportion to its population. How? Why?

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Minor correction..

My researcher just came back to me to say that the occupancy rate of 73 is NOT percentage but rather... number of people within a cabin carriage.... Damn!

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Highfalutin]

I really love Hong Kong's transparency! All data are made available, even segregated data!

http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/investrelation/patronage.php#search

The above is Hong Kong MTR data. By month to by the year.

For 2008, the total number of trips made for the train system minus the airport express is about 1.2 billion. This is almost 2.5 times more than Singapore MRT! But Hong Kong's population is just about 7million, 2 million more than Singapore or 1.4 times more than Singapore.

http://www.censtatd.gov.hk/hong_kong_statistics/statistics_by_subject/index.jsp

It actually means that more Hong Kongers are taking public transport than Singapore in proportion to its population. How? Why?

Goh Meng Seng

Mr Goh

If the Government had never solved the problem of the availability of taxi services during peak hours, then they can never reconcile MRT services and commuter expectations. It all boils down to Singapore's demography. Everybody is heading in a few general directions morning or evenings, and nearly all will have to pass or use the MRT interchanges. Having a Circle or Square line added will never solve the problem because people will still be heading in the same few general directions and ending up, starting out or change trains at the MRT interchanges in the City. Do a mental movie!

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You are actually right here.

I have suggested back in the 1990s (when I was still in NUS) that we should decentralize the CBD and yes, PAP government did tried that, starting from Tampines and Woodlands. The problem is, the 1997 financial crisis disrupted all this re-organization.

There are other aspect to look into as well. In Hong Kong, Housing and transport planning are under one ministry, one roof. Thus, their planning strategy is to build high density satellite housing right next to the MTR stations. They have just begun a project on a new MTR station lately on the East Kwoloon side.

When you have a higher density of housing right next to MTR station, people will tend to use the MTR more due to the convenience, instead of relying on driving their own cars. They don't need to take feeder service to the MTR stations, just walk 5 to 10 minutes all under shelter or air-conditioned malls to the MTR stations.

This is the kind of strategy that they have adopted for their small city planning. Can we?

Look, we are doing the reverse. Punggol MRT station was built long time ago but no flats were built near it. Now they are building shopping malls and such next to it with other flats pretty far away. Residents need to take feeder bus which is inefficient...eventually, no choice, many people choose to drive a car instead.

Goh Meng Seng

Mr Goh

If the Government had never solved the problem of the availability of taxi services during peak hours, then they can never reconcile MRT services and commuter expectations. It all boils down to Singapore's demography. Everybody is heading in a few general directions morning or evenings, and nearly all will have to pass or use the MRT interchanges. Having a Circle or Square line added will never solve the problem because people will still be heading in the same few general directions and ending up, starting out or change trains at the MRT interchanges in the City. Do a mental movie!

 

[Highfalutin]

You are actually right here.

I have suggested back in the 1990s (when I was still in NUS) that we should decentralize the CBD and yes, PAP government did tried that, starting from Tampines and Woodlands. The problem is, the 1997 financial crisis disrupted all this re-organization.

There are other aspect to look into as well. In Hong Kong, Housing and transport planning are under one ministry, one roof. Thus, their planning strategy is to build high density satellite housing right next to the MTR stations. They have just begun a project on a new MTR station lately on the East Kwoloon side.

When you have a higher density of housing right next to MTR station, people will tend to use the MTR more due to the convenience, instead of relying on driving their own cars. They don't need to take feeder service to the MTR stations, just walk 5 to 10 minutes all under shelter or air-conditioned malls to the MTR stations.

This is the kind of strategy that they have adopted for their small city planning. Can we?

Look, we are doing the reverse. Punggol MRT station was built long time ago but no flats were built near it. Now they are building shopping malls and such next to it with other flats pretty far away. Residents need to take feeder bus which is inefficient...eventually, no choice, many people choose to drive a car instead.

Goh Meng Seng

Mr Goh

Knowing that your spouse is a Hong Konger and that you are practically a PR there, you should be aware that Hong Kong's demography is different from Singapore. The major suburbs are almost self contained satellite towns. As a matter of fact, we, on the average travel longer distances in our daily commute than the average Hong Konger. And the fact that less than 20,000 taxis serve a population of 7 million and the taxi drivers earning a satisfactory and resonable return is telling of the Hong Kong people's transport needs.

 

[Ramseth]

Singapore school kids also take taxis commonly. That's also telling of Singapore living standard and public transport standard?

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Hong Kongers actually travel LONGER distance, not less. Singapore's towns are self contained as well. You see, I could afford not to go to CBD for months if I choose not to.

Hong Kongers normally only take Taxi for shorter trips while taking MTR for longer ones. Their rail system is very much complex now after the merger of the MTR and the Kowloon Railway. It is very extensive. I do not have the statistics on the total length of rail they have in Hong Kong in comparison with Singapore, but I could safely say that Hong Kong's rail is many times longer than Singapore due partly to its land mass in New Territory.

Having said that, with the efficient rail system, Hong Kongers would prefer to take the train rather than getting stuck in traffic jams.

Goh Meng Seng

Mr Goh

Knowing that your spouse is a Hong Konger and that you are practically a PR there, you should be aware that Hong Kong's demography is different from Singapore. The major suburbs are almost self contained satellite towns. As a matter of fact, we, on the average travel longer distances in our daily commute than the average Hong Konger. And the fact that less than 20,000 taxis serve a population of 7 million and the taxi drivers earning a satisfactory and resonable return is telling of the Hong Kong people's transport needs.

 

[Highfalutin]

Mr Goh

The greater percentage of residents in the East and North side of Singapore heads West and South to work in the morning and then reverse direction in the evenings. My point is that our MRT system is just not in sync with a 5 million population distributed away from the main areas of industry and commerce and will be a certain disaster when a 6.5 million population come to pass.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Yes, I understand your point very well and that is why I have suggested to shift some of the functional industry to some other places...eg. Part of the financial support groups of financial institutions to the East (Tampines) etc.

This is in effective a dispersion of workforce to spread them out evenly, reducing the needs and demand on both public and private transportation.

Goh Meng Seng

Mr Goh

The greater percentage of residents in the East and North side of Singapore heads West and South to work in the morning and then reverse direction in the evenings. My point is that our MRT system is just not in sync with a 5 million population distributed away from the main areas of industry and commerce and will be a certain disaster when a 6.5 million population come to pass.

 

[Ramseth]

Hong Kongers actually travel LONGER distance, not less. Singapore's towns are self contained as well. You see, I could afford not to go to CBD for months if I choose not to.

If you don't go Sim Lim for months, then you worry.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

If you don't go Sim Lim for months, then you worry.

Haha... can always ask people to do the errands.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[VIBGYOR]

It actually means that more Hong Kongers are taking public transport than Singapore in proportion to its population. How? Why?
Goh Meng Seng

Sporeans public tpt system is not so solid and developed like HK...

their minibuses can stop anywhere you command them to stop..