Inadequate Public Transportation

[Goh Meng Seng]

Well, they have been enjoying extraordinary growth in profits and it is their responsibility to invest in more trains and signaling system.

The root of the problem is that the train is not designed to take 5 or 6 million population. There are only 6 cabins compare to HK's 8 cabins. If HK's system could be so efficient even with 8 cabins, they must have invested in upgrading their signaling system. Their system is older than ours; ours was built a few years later than the HK system.

When HK has only a population of 5 or 6 million, they already design the system with 8 cabins. But we are still stuck with 6 cabins.

It is about time the Ministry of Transport do something about the whole MRT system.

Goh Meng Seng

Dear GMS

Two distinct technical issues at hand with the stats you have brought up.

1. Size of Train Fleets

No growth in fleet size means decrease in stats as stated after increase in route network.


2. Signaling Capacity which limits frequency of trains

No upgrade in signalling capacity limits frequency on expanded route size which limits frequency and distance travelled




Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

Having been in London. I have to correct you on this. The No of cabins is fixed by the length of the platform and that was again designed a long long time ago.

You can only increase the frequency by improving the signalling system so that more trains can run on the same track with cabin length fixed by the previous platform design




Locke

 

[Highfalutin]

Mr. Goh

In your research, have you sought for an answer to the question whether the MRT was originally designed for a population growth explosion of over 1.5 million within a decade in the new millenium and a government policy for another projected 1.5 million immigrants for a total of a 6.5 million population in the next few years after?

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Locke,

What I am saying is that our system is not designed to accommodate 5million or more people because the initial design is based on a low base of 2million plus to 3million. That is why there is a distinctive difference between HK's system vs Singapore.

While we cannot solve this STRUCTURAL problem as you have correctly pointed out that the platform is fixed, the next step is about increasing the frequency of the trains. But there is a limit to this methodology. Even if they invest in the more advanced signaling system, there will be a bottleneck and ultimately, it will come back to the Structural problem again.

London subway is designed to serve London only, not the whole Britain, whereas Singapore is a city state.

Goh Meng Seng

Dear GMS

Having been in London. I have to correct you on this. The No of cabins is fixed by the length of the platform and that was again designed a long long time ago.

You can only increase the frequency by improving the signalling system so that more trains can run on the same track with cabin length fixed by the previous platform design




Locke

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Mr. Goh

In your research, have you sought for an answer to the question whether the MRT was originally designed for a population growth explosion of over 1.5 million within a decade in the new millenium and a government policy for another projected 1.5 million immigrants for a total of a 6.5 million population in the next few years after?

I will have to go into parliament to ask that question.

But by deduction through the comparison of HK's system with ours, it is apparent that you will need 8 cabins to serve 5 million population or more.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[cleareyes]

While we cannot solve this STRUCTURAL problem as you have correctly pointed out that the platform is fixed, the next step is about increasing the frequency of the trains. But there is a limit to this methodology. Even if they invest in the more advanced signaling system, there will be a bottleneck and ultimately, it will come back to the Structural problem again.

Have you ever travel to the end-stations such as Pasir Ris, Joo Koon or Marina South during peak hours?

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Have you ever travel to the end-stations such as Pasir Ris, Joo Koon or Marina South during peak hours?

No. Why?

Goh Meng Seng

 

[cleareyes]

No. Why?

Goh Meng Seng

There is a limit in how much frequency the tracks and trains can handle. During peak hiours, most train reaching the end-stations have to wait in mid-track in order for the other trains at the sattion to leave in the opposite direction before the approaching train can berth and passengers can alight.

Before you mouth off about figures, go take the train and travel on it during different times of the day, different times of the week and visit different station to understand the situation.

or else, you be just like any of the PAP mps, only mouthing off but didnt really know what is happening on the ground.

 

[Highfalutin]

The biggest toughie wannabe on the block is the one who dare fuck both the public and the Police at the same time. They, of course do that in cyberspace.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

That is a design problem. For the last stations, they design in such a way that there is only one track for in and out. That is why you need to wait.

Furthermore, it is because the trains are scheduled to leave later, not earlier, that is why there is a clout. Facts and figures pointed clearly to the fact that SMRT has REDUCED the trains back in 2004, from 2003.

If in 2003, it could run 89.6 million kilometers, why in 2004 it was reduced to 77.4m? You mean to say that the MRT system suddenly becomes worse or what? It was a deliberate reduction, not something that they could not cope!

Facts and figures don't lie my friend. Only human beings will lie or try to justify something with weird logic.

Goh Meng Seng

There is a limit in how much frequency the tracks and trains can handle. During peak hiours, most train reaching the end-stations have to wait in mid-track in order for the other trains at the sattion to leave in the opposite direction before the approaching train can berth and passengers can alight.

Before you mouth off about figures, go take the train and travel on it during different times of the day, different times of the week and visit different station to understand the situation.

or else, you be just like any of the PAP mps, only mouthing off but didnt really know what is happening on the ground.

 

[jw5]

That is a design problem. For the last stations, they design in such a way that there is only one track for in and out. That is why you need to wait.

Furthermore, it is because the trains are scheduled to leave later, not earlier, that is why there is a clout. Facts and figures pointed clearly to the fact that SMRT has REDUCED the trains back in 2004, from 2003.

If in 2003, it could run 89.6 million kilometers, why in 2004 it was reduced to 77.4m? You mean to say that the MRT system suddenly becomes worse or what? It was a deliberate reduction, not something that they could not cope!

Facts and figures don't lie my friend. Only human beings will lie or try to justify something with weird logic.

Goh Meng Seng

GMS
If you try to use figures and logic with them, they will simply counteract with their own figures and logic, none of which the ordinary singaporean voter will understand. They may even accuse you of having fake numbers and ridiculous logic.
In my opinion, the key is to go around and ask the voters this simple question:
"Is your life better or worse than before, especially before the foreigners started coming in droves?"
I am quite confident that most will answer in the negative and consider voting opposition. Of course, you need to know who to ask.

 

[Highfalutin]

That is a design problem. For the last stations, they design in such a way that there is only one track for in and out. That is why you need to wait.

Furthermore, it is because the trains are scheduled to leave later, not earlier, that is why there is a clout. Facts and figures pointed clearly to the fact that SMRT has REDUCED the trains back in 2004, from 2003.

If in 2003, it could run 89.6 million kilometers, why in 2004 it was reduced to 77.4m? You mean to say that the MRT system suddenly becomes worse or what? It was a deliberate reduction, not something that they could not cope!

Facts and figures don't lie my friend. Only human beings will lie or try to justify something with weird logic.

Goh Meng Seng

If I sell you a meal for a dollar from my business's daily capacity to deliver and I subsequently give you half the portion for the same dollar because my customers have no alternatives, I double my profit margin. This what Tan Ah Seng and his brother Tan Ah Beng explained to me.

 

[Glaringly]

If in 2003, it could run 89.6 million kilometers, why in 2004 it was reduced to 77.4m? You mean to say that the MRT system suddenly becomes worse or what? It was a deliberate reduction, not something that they could not cope!

Goh Meng Seng

I assume alarm bells were rung that there would be sudden and huge increase of population. SMRT goes into overdrive and hatch out this long term plan by reducing the frequency which results into decrease of numbers from 89.6 to 77.4m km within a year. But this is no ordinary decrease , why it is not pick out by the ground at that time? Do you know why?

 

[VIBGYOR]

There is a limit in how much frequency the tracks and trains can handle. During peak hiours, most train reaching the end-stations have to wait in mid-track in order for the other trains at the sattion to leave in the opposite direction before the approaching train can berth and passengers can alight.

And who approved this designs by the way?

 

[VIBGYOR]

Facts and figures don't lie my friend. Only human beings will lie or try to justify something with weird logic.

Goh Meng Seng

what weird? most likely selfish interests...

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

I would have to disagree. Lets do the maths. Basically what percentage increase does one get if one increases six carriages to eight. Thats in essence a 33% increase in capacity.

What if say you drop the interval using better signalling equipment increasing the no of trains from 1 a min to 2 a min or even three a min. Thats respectively a 200 percent or 300 percent increase in capacity. As it is sometimes at peak periods the average waiting time is ninety secs so there is a lot of room for improvement



Locke

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Locke,

I believe there is a transport modeling for this projection.

It may not be possible to have 3 per minute. At peak hour, MRT is about 2 min or less interval. Yes, this could be improved but once you reach the max, where to? Singapore aiming to have 6.5m population and we are just 5m now. Your method may solve the increase of demand in short term but if we are talking about enticing the driving population to switch to public transport, it will be very different. We might have to do both, increase frequency as well as extending the trains.

Goh Meng Seng

Dear GMS

I would have to disagree. Lets do the maths. Basically what percentage increase does one get if one increases six carriages to eight. Thats in essence a 33% increase in capacity.

What if say you drop the interval using better signalling equipment increasing the no of trains from 1 a min to 2 a min or even three a min. Thats respectively a 200 percent or 300 percent increase in capacity. As it is sometimes at peak periods the average waiting time is ninety secs so there is a lot of room for improvement



Locke

 

[i_am_belle]

In terms of rapid transit train crowding, Singapore is still a far way off Tokyo. However, in Tokyo, the Japanese social etiquette makes the ride more bearable.

s'pore - crowded trains + boorish behavior = madhouse ... :o

In terms of waiting time, Hong Kong is champion, practically no waiting as there seems to be always next train coming in a minute.

how come they never langgar ?

Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok fares are very cheap (even relative to their income levels) but their systems are of limited coverage in city areas only, no full metropolis coverage.

thats ok, they & their politicians don't claim world-class status ...

For space and comfort, San Francisco-Bay Area is first on my list. Soft cushioned seats with full height back rest, and I can't remember when I have to stand, whether peak or off-peak hours. Perhaps many people own cars there.

USA does not pack its citizens like sardines, cos if they do, the citizens will send their congressmen packing ...

 

[i_am_belle]

actually PAP shd not increase the population anymore ... keep it at 5 million, no more no less ...

less than 5 million means not enuff $$ to pay the million dollar ministers & their CEO cronies, ok fair enuff then, keep it at 5 million but do not incrase anymore, we can't accomodate anymore ...

 

[Ramseth]

Hello, You're Belle, I'm neither kidding nor exaggerating. Goh Meng Seng and others who frequent HK can vouch that's true. How come the trains never langgar? Of course they won't when planned and timed properly.

Singapore bus services achieve (or outdo) this by having two buses of the same service line arriving at the same time, just one second after the other. How come and what for? I don't know. However, at most times, expect to wait and wait. You wait for one; 30 minutes later two arrive.

In terms of rapid transit train crowding, Singapore is still a far way off Tokyo. However, in Tokyo, the Japanese social etiquette makes the ride more bearable.

s'pore - crowded trains + boorish behavior = madhouse ... :o

In terms of waiting time, Hong Kong is champion, practically no waiting as there seems to be always next train coming in a minute.

how come they never langgar ?

Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok fares are very cheap (even relative to their income levels) but their systems are of limited coverage in city areas only, no full metropolis coverage.

thats ok, they & their politicians don't claim world-class status ...

For space and comfort, San Francisco-Bay Area is first on my list. Soft cushioned seats with full height back rest, and I can't remember when I have to stand, whether peak or off-peak hours. Perhaps many people own cars there.

USA does not pack its citizens like sardines, cos if they do, the citizens will send their congressmen packing ...