Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

Ignore as in stop making him the centre of the PAP edifice. Ignore his comments , acknowledge his contributions and then state clearly that he should be tending the roses in the Istana Garden.


Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear King

By this logic, after LKY dies, the PAP collapses and we will all go to a democratic liberal heaven. No need for any opposition period, just wait for LKY to die and a liberal democratic order will emerge. Whats going to happen after LKY dies ? The SDP is going to write another series of articles proclaiming " We must hold LKY accountable for his sins even after death , we need a truth commission "




Locke

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

Ignore as in stop making him the centre of the PAP edifice. Ignore his comments , acknowledge his contributions and then state clearly that he should be tending the roses in the Istana Garden.


Locke

<style></style>In short you are saying Chia Thye Poh,JBJ and Dr.Chee did not ignore LKY and thereby deserves to be jailed for life or bankrupted.Its their fault.

Will LKY ignore you if you pose threat to his political life?

 

[scroobal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

I don't quite agree with you there. The whole fight between CSJ and LKY is over credibility. LKY is so entrenched that one has to resort to whateva one has. If you reduce or demolish his credibility, inter alia, labouring on his shortsightedness, his stubbornness to listen to alternative views etc, on his investment losses, you will have weakened the very foundation of PAP power. .

I think its a question of perception. Some think that he lost his credibility long time ago. In 2006, just prior to the elections, his dialogue with young singaporeans went horribly wrong with one journalist (SPH) telling to his face to step down from cabinet. Incidently they came from GLCs.

Since his social engineering speech 25 years, things have been downhill. No one takes him seriously. They defer to his age.

In the recent court case, old man contrary to rational judgement, agreed to testify at a damages awarding trial when he did not have to. Chee crucified him and made him look like an idiot.

It just a pure waste of time chasing this senile old idiot.

When was the last time can you recall this dinosaur saying anything credible or sane. His Golden period collapsed the moment he said it. Its basically flogging a dead horse.

Incidently it reminded me of Ghandi Ampalam speech and comments during Q&A at the recent SDP forum. He kept bringing up WWII stories, 1959, 1961 etc. While the audience were current in their comments.

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

. No one takes him seriously. They defer to his age.



It just a pure waste of time chasing this senile old idiot.

.

The question is you can ignore LKY,will he ignore you aka Singaporeans?

 

[scroobal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

The question is you can ignore LKY,will he ignore you aka Singaporeans?

Aiyah, don't give the old man face. Just ignore him. Focus on toppling the PAP at the polls. Your friends are the voters. Spend all your valuable time and limited resources at getting as many voters as you can. Write commentary that resonates with the voters.

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

There was a period where LKY could not be ignored where he was relevant and a period whereby he must be ignored because he is irrelevant and should be tending the roses at the Istana. I believe you can tell the difference between the two



Locke

 

[newyorker88]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Lestat

I am afraid that Dr Chee has lost it with this diatribe. LKY is irrelevent though he imagines himself to be the rock of wisdom for all ages, his own press secretary according to rumors censors what he reads in terms of press cuttings and summaries to ensure he does not go "off the rocker". LKY is best ignored like that crazy old grandfather, and yet Dr Chee seeks stupidly I might add to make him the centerpiece of the PAP edifice. I am sick of LKY and I am sick of this petty feud between LKY and Dr Chee. this circus was well and good last year in court, but this year is different and the world is in economic crisis.

Dr Chee , his sister and his bunch of merry goons might be bankrupt and seek a career as professional civil disobedience convicts and thus have not an economic care in the world, but the rest of us do have savings, jobs, businesses, stock portfolios and real estate assets and if he and his party wants votes they should start caring about what selfish me and other selfish materailistic Singaporean voters care about


Its personal between Chee and LKY and this article proves it. This global economic meltdown affects all Singaporeans and I find it disturbing and disappointing that those bunch of economic illiterates in the SDP would use it in their ongoing feud with LKY and the PAP. Furthermore I am disgusted with their selective quotes of economist and investors in order to make the case for themselves that the dangers of the excesses of the financial markets were well known. LKY may have been wrong in many things but he was just one of the many global liberal washington consensus that got it wrong with regards to the market and how quickly it would take to stabilize it.





Locke

Well written!!

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Aiyah, don't give the old man face. Just ignore him. Focus on toppling the PAP at the polls. Your friends are the voters. Spend all your valuable time and limited resources at getting as many voters as you can. Write commentary that resonates with the voters.

How can you vote for anybody other than LKY's choice if he keeps on bankrupting opposition candidates ?...unless of course,LKY approves that opposition candidate.

Back to square one.

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

There was a period where LKY could not be ignored where he was relevant and a period whereby he must be ignored because he is irrelevant and should be tending the roses at the Istana. I believe you can tell the difference between the two



Locke

Ok.prey tell me the periods.

19xx to 20xxx---when LKY cannot be ignored.

19xx to 20xx.----when LKY can be ignored.

 

[scroobal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

How can you vote for anybody other than LKY's choice if he keeps on bankrupting opposition candidates ?...unless of course,LKY approves that opposition candidate.

Back to square one.

You sound like Jufrie. He said that Singaporeans were sheep and got truly fucked by a member of the audience at the SDP forum. To make it worse, he denied thats what he meant. He also kept talking about approved opposition and alternative parties - not very smart at a theme on unity.

I don't prescribe to the excuse that you are giving. I will be first to say that PAP gerrymandered, made it close to impossible to mount a decent opposiion etc but do give credit to the voters of Houngang and Potong Pasir. I hope you are not suggesting that these people are sheep as well.

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

You sound like Jufrie. He said that Singaporeans were sheep and got truly fucked by a member of the audience at the SDP forum. To make it worse, he denied thats what he meant. He also kept talking about approved opposition and alternative parties - not very smart at a theme on unity.

I don't prescribe to the excuse that you are giving. I will be first to say that PAP gerrymandered, made it close to impossible to mount a decent opposiion etc but do give credit to the voters of Houngang and Potong Pasir. I hope you are not suggesting that these people are sheep as well.

What are you saying ? Catch no ball leh.

Let me rephrase,JBJ got bankrupted for merely waving a police report at an election rally.Under such circumstances how do you justify your stand that ignore LKY and we would live happily ever after.

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

Hmmm probably from about 2006 , 2005 onwards as Scroobal suggested and that interview with the young.



Locke

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

Hmmm probably from about 2006 , 2005 onwards as Scroobal suggested and that interview with the young.



Locke

You suprise me.You wrote with such conviction and yet you have to lean on Scroobal.

Notwithstanding I hold to your very own words.

Tell me why one cannot ignore LKY prior to 2005 even though he was not the PM.Are you saying that LKY is indeed accountable before 2005 but not after 2005.Why?

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

Hmmm this question of when to ignore and not when to ignore, its a question of political perception and analysis and in that I would say there is and absolutely right scientific answer. I suggested that date because that interview in my mind absolutely proved what I had always felt since about 2001, that he was losing it and not connecting at all with the electorate at large and that the electorate that he was connecting or connected with was dying faster and could not stick around as long as LKY could

LKY is that mad grandfather one gradually ignores over the years. Hold the PAP to account, Hold the Prime Minister to account, but LKY should just be ignored as a bygone relic. He might have made sense at one time, but at some point he became that mad grandfather of the nation




Locke

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

Hold the PAP to account, Hold the Prime Minister to account, but LKY should just be ignored as a bygone relic.



Locke

In short you are saying everybody else is accountable except LKY....WHY?

 

[The_Latest_H]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

I think there's some facts to establish here:

1. The capitalistic system will be around for a long while- but probably not in its current form because of obvious reasons that all of us have read here and in other places as well. To say its forever gone, or that we are all now real socialists is a tad too far as an assertion.

2. The only reason why LKY tries to make himself relevant is because as the years pass, and as he ages, he actually accumlates more power than he loses. Usually its the reverse, where the young slowly gets more power from the older generation as the older generations slowly fade into the horizon. So LHL is losing a lot of his authority to LKY over the years and that's why LKY is trying to make himself look relevant when he shouldn't be.

Nonetheless, whether or not he increases his hold on the government or not, he's irrelevant and part of history. As for making him accountable, I won't pre-ampt what one would do in the future in regards to that. That's for the future generations to decide, and not so much for us or about us. If there's an alternative government after many decades of PAP rule, if there's such a day, then I would believe the government has to also concern itself about governing the country and therefore, will have to leave it up to people to decide what they want for themselves in regards to that, within the system.

3. Just to add: the best victory and the worst defeat one can have, and to inflict huge damage is an electoral victory over the PAP. If we win at the polls in the long run, and in time, then I think that's the biggest and loudest rebuttal to the years of PAP mis-management. Accountability from the people through elections is also accountability. After all, how was John Howard humiliated? He lost both his PM post and his MP seat in the federal polls back in 2007. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

As for making him accountable, I won't pre-ampt what one would do in the future in regards to that. That's for the future generations to decide, and not so much for us or about us. .

<style></style> I would be dammed.What good is accountability if one is not accountable now?

We are not talking of karma here where the almighty adds or minus your brownie points.

Accountability means you face the music for your actions now.

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

Errrrr because he no longer leads, because he is just the "mental mentor" , because his disciples like errr Lui and Ng and errr currently Khaw are infinitely more fun and politically inept, because he is the political past.



Locke

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

Errrrr because he no longer leads, because he is just the "mental mentor" , because his disciples like errr Lui and Ng and errr currently Khaw are infinitely more fun and politically inept, because he is the political past.



Locke

Errrr,you mean you can commit murder and not become accountable cause you can claim you no longer has the power to commit any more murder?

Errrr mana ada logic?