Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

[lubehsong]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Lestat

I am afraid that Dr Chee has lost it with this diatribe. LKY is irrelevent though he imagines himself to be the rock of wisdom for all ages, his own press secretary according to rumors censors what he reads in terms of press cuttings and summaries to ensure he does not go "off the rocker". LKY is best ignored like that crazy old grandfather, and yet Dr Chee seeks stupidly I might add to make him the centerpiece of the PAP edifice. I am sick of LKY and I am sick of this petty feud between LKY and Dr Chee. this circus was well and good last year in court, but this year is different and the world is in economic crisis.

Dr Chee , his sister and his bunch of merry goons might be bankrupt and seek a career as professional civil disobedience convicts and thus have not an economic care in the world, but the rest of us do have savings, jobs, businesses, stock portfolios and real estate assets and if he and his party wants votes they should start caring about what selfish me and other selfish materailistic Singaporean voters care about


Its personal between Chee and LKY and this article proves it. This global economic meltdown affects all Singaporeans and I find it disturbing and disappointing that those bunch of economic illiterates in the SDP would use it in their ongoing feud with LKY and the PAP. Furthermore I am disgusted with their selective quotes of economist and investors in order to make the case for themselves that the dangers of the excesses of the financial markets were well known. LKY may have been wrong in many things but he was just one of the many global liberal washington consensus that got it wrong with regards to the market and how quickly it would take to stabilize it.





Locke

LKY likes to think he is smarter than many ppl and he's been fooling singkies for so long.the last time malaysia 's mahathir imposed capital controls to fix the economy,LKY simply parrotting the view of IMF that malaysia would fail implementing the capital controls.eventually malaysia's economy was saved without begging Singa and IMF for money.

and this time round LKY was again parrotting the views of those so called financial tzars and oblivious to the impending gloom, rejoing in his Golden Era view.Had he and other powerful ppl heeded the advice of Dr Gloom ,things would not be so bad today.

Dr. Doom
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By STEPHEN MIHM
Published: August 15, 2008
On Sept. 7, 2006, Nouriel Roubini, an economics professor at New York University, stood before an audience of economists at the International Monetary Fund and announced that a crisis was brewing. In the coming months and years, he warned, the United States was likely to face a once-in-a-lifetime housing bust, an oil shock, sharply declining consumer confidence and, ultimately, a deep recession. He laid out a bleak sequence of events: homeowners defaulting on mortgages, trillions of dollars of mortgage-backed securities unraveling worldwide and the global financial system shuddering to a halt. These developments, he went on, could cripple or destroy hedge funds, investment banks and other major financial institutions like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

...............

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear CTL




Nothing wrong with being selfish and an unashamed capitalists. It is after all the cornerstone of liberal democracy, free markets capitalism money and materialism in case you have somewhat covieniently forgotten or intellectually ignored



Locke

Not if one holds a public office.....which means accountable by transparency.

Even capitalistic commericial world demands transparency.Where is the transparency in how they handle the public money?

 

[Chia Ti Lik]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear CTL


Perhaps Dr Chee's true calling is not that of an activists or a politician but rather that of a " Catholic Priest " preaching " Treasures stored in heaven."

Nothing wrong with being selfish and an unashamed capitalists. It is after all the cornerstone of liberal democracy, free markets capitalism money and materialism in case you have somewhat covieniently forgotten or intellectually ignored

Perhaps apart from those you have read, I would suggest that you read Kindleberg and Schumpeter with regards to capitalism and the financial system and how the ups and downs go. but generally capitalism is about up.

Btw in case you forget , communism socialism and Mao Tse Tung's anti market ideology has gone the way of history.

LKY has been part of the liberal globalized washington IMF led capital market consensus. They have been proven wrong somewhat, but the financial markets will learn , adapt recover and Singapore must have a role within that architecture. There were international financial markets before LKY, before you, before me and before Dr Chee and there will be international financial markets after you and I are dusts and Dr Chee's and LKY's voices are lost in time.

I would like to state that I believe the elections will be held in June or somewhat later and if this diatribe by Dr Chee is any indication as to how the SDP approaches a potential GE then I am afraid I am looking at another PAP wipeout with PP under Desmond going under.




Locke

Dear Locke

No one is talking about communism here.

You seem to have read widely. Have you read my prediction for the coming elections?

Ti Lik

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

LKY is fighting the fight of the eighties, he's a bloody dinosaur as stated from my first posts. Fight the issues of today, fight the fight of today, do not fight the fight of your grandfather.



Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Ti Lik

Actually no :_)) But care to share them :_))



Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

If we are talking about public money, and the budget then I am afraid Dr Chee was talking through the side of his face when it comes to the budget issue. How Gov money is spent is laid out in the budget , How each ministry spends its money in terms of projects and expenses is listed in the Budget Book. That is as you will imagine a very very thick book in deed though available for research at the NLB, available for purchase and I believe available free to each MP and NMP. It is through the details available in that Book, that questions were asked by Tan Soo Koon about gov spending on buildings, and how LTK asked abt why salaries as reflected in the book were not reflected in actual % salary decreases as stated by TCH for ministers and top civil servants.

Now that book should I believe be available on line and should be more accessible to the general public but that and its details are available to the public and for research if anyone is interested they should avail themselves of it.

Off budget wise I will argue that generally Temasek is transparent but GIC less so and that GIC should be more open. The information is out there for people willing to learn, educate and research and not just make polemic rhetoric



Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Lub

Well if Warren Buffet had listened he to would not be down today on his portfolio. The consensus got it wrong, I would be the first to admit, but generally I see the consensus as right for the long term. LKY got it wrong and yes he was part of that consensus, should he have listened to the prophets of doom ? Perhaps yes perhaps no but thats with perfect hindsight.



Locke

 

[TeeKee]

dr. Chee often taught us not to store treasures on earth which moths and rust destroy, perhaps if the current downturn is affecting you, i suggest you read more of dr. Chee's articles to gain some deeper insight which would be helpful.

Regards

ti lik

you are my brother!! Amen to that!!

 

[TeeKee]

Dear CTL


Perhaps Dr Chee's true calling is not that of an activists or a politician but rather that of a " Catholic Priest " preaching " Treasures stored in heaven."

Nothing wrong with being selfish and an unashamed capitalists. It is after all the cornerstone of liberal democracy, free markets capitalism money and materialism in case you have somewhat covieniently forgotten or intellectually ignored

Locke

why people never learn from the recent lessons of greed in the recent financial collapse?

will must people be labelled as Priest when one wants to preach about the gospel? isn't gospel relevant to our daily lives? helping us to make to right decisions so that we don't screw up?

 

[Lestat]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Lestat

I am afraid that Dr Chee has lost it with this diatribe.... (message taunted)

Locke

Winning the people's vote is not that difficult. I do not understand why the opposition parties keep on whining about it. The whole thing is, when faced with a problem the society faces, and PAPies are not willing to do anything about it at all, it's up to the opposition to prove and come up with workable solutions to solve our problems. Till this date, I have yet to see any of the Chees doing this at all.

I agree with you, Locke, that this whole fiasco is becoming like a personal vendetta between Chee and Lee. Hasn't anyone in the party try telling Chee about the direction their party is supposed to head, instead of indulging him and his merry goons to do whatever they like to Lee and putting of the rest of the population who are looking for change? When we want a change, we want somebody to solve our problems, not to bring problems which we already know, and playing the blame game.

What has the Chees been doing? It's precisely their stupidity in indulging 'fun' games with the Lees which results in them not getting the support from the population. Perhaps they should change their chairman. Things may be better.

 

[tookara]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

he has lost touch of bread and butter issues, sadly

 

[TeeKee]

Winning the people's vote is not that difficult. I do not understand why the opposition parties keep on whining about it. The whole thing is, when faced with a problem the society faces, and PAPies are not willing to do anything about it at all, it's up to the opposition to prove and come up with workable solutions to solve our problems. Till this date, I have yet to see any of the Chees doing this at all.

this guy just told you how to win elections!!

you got it oppositions? or PAP?

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

LKY is fighting the fight of the eighties, he's a bloody dinosaur as stated from my first posts. Fight the issues of today, fight the fight of today, do not fight the fight of your grandfather.



Locke

Can you quote what your reply is for?Anyway I take issue with your quote that everything boils down to petty fights between LKY and Dr.Chee.If that is so why has LKY been picking fights petty or not for the ast 40 years and not from the 80s as you deliberately hides.

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

If we are talking about public money, and the budget then I am afraid Dr Chee was talking through the side of his face when it comes to the budget issue. How Gov money is spent is laid out in the budget , How each ministry spends its money in terms of projects and expenses is listed in the Budget Book. That is as you will imagine a very very thick book in deed though available for research at the NLB, available for purchase and I believe available free to each MP and NMP. It is through the details available in that Book, that questions were asked by Tan Soo Koon about gov spending on buildings, and how LTK asked abt why salaries as reflected in the book were not reflected in actual % salary decreases as stated by TCH for ministers and top civil servants.

Now that book should I believe be available on line and should be more accessible to the general public but that and its details are available to the public and for research if anyone is interested they should avail themselves of it.

Off budget wise I will argue that generally Temasek is transparent but GIC less so and that GIC should be more open. The information is out there for people willing to learn, educate and research and not just make polemic rhetoric



Locke

And if that is so our ex-president Ong must be in the same dilemma as well.Of course only you understand.

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

Well it was a reply to your post Dr Chee is carrying on the tradition of JBJ etc etc Chia Tye Poh etc etc. LKY is irrelevant, he is a dinosaur to be ignored as I have stated, pick a fight with a dinosaur , u make him more relevant than he deserves to be, LKY is like that mad old grandfather we hide in the closet, just bloody well ignore him and debate the more important issues today like say ohhh the economic crisis.



Locke

 

[TeeKee]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

if you make a live debate between CSJ and LKY on national TV, this will be the most watched TV programme in SGP history.

it could also spell the final demise of the Old Man in his political career.

who got the guts in MediaCorpse to arrange this? Maybe HKP act as moderator?

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

Well it was a reply to your post Dr Chee is carrying on the tradition of JBJ etc etc Chia Tye Poh etc etc. LKY is irrelevant, he is a dinosaur to be ignored as I have stated, pick a fight with a dinosaur , u make him more relevant than he deserves to be, LKY is like that mad old grandfather we hide in the closet, just bloody well ignore him and debate the more important issues today like say ohhh the economic crisis.



Locke

Stop misquoting me.You posted that,''....

Originally Posted by lockeliberal ..." Dear Lestat

I am sick of LKY and I am sick of this petty feud between LKY and Dr Chee.

Locke".....

and you now justify that its because ,"Dr Chee is carrying on the tradition of JBJ etc etc Chia Tye Poh etc etc."

Are you saying that Chia Thye Poh,JBJ,Dr.Chee and the rest of the world had been picking unjust petty fights with poor ole LKY,for for 40 more years ?

 

[lockeliberal]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

"I am afraid that Dr Chee has lost it with this diatribe. LKY is irrelevent though he imagines himself to be the rock of wisdom for all ages, his own press secretary according to rumors censors what he reads in terms of press cuttings and summaries to ensure he does not go "off the rocker". LKY is best ignored like that crazy old grandfather, and yet Dr Chee seeks stupidly I might add to make him the centerpiece of the PAP edifice. I am sick of LKY and I am sick of this petty feud between LKY and Dr Chee. this circus was well and good last year in court, but this year is different and the world is in economic crisis. "

You might want to acknowledge the begainning and start of my paragraph. LKY is irrelevent in the context of today. The fights of the past might have been justified but that was the past and in todays context in the context of Dr Chee versus LKY its insane and utter stupidity. The old man is irrelevent stop trying to make him relevent and you win. Fight todays battle on todays issues, and there are enough serious issues today, stop fighting todays issues with an irrelevent mad old father of the nation who should be tending the Istana Garden


Locke

 

[Nice-Gook]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

". LKY is best ignored like that crazy old grandfather,

Locke

How can one ignore LKY if he can bankrupt you?

 

[kingrant]

Re: Holding Lee Kuan Yew accountable – Part 1

Dear Nice

Well it was a reply to your post Dr Chee is carrying on the tradition of JBJ etc etc Chia Tye Poh etc etc. LKY is irrelevant, he is a dinosaur to be ignored as I have stated, pick a fight with a dinosaur , u make him more relevant than he deserves to be, LKY is like that mad old grandfather we hide in the closet, just bloody well ignore him and debate the more important issues today like say ohhh the economic crisis.



Locke

I don't quite agree with you there. The whole fight between CSJ and LKY is over credibility. LKY is so entrenched that one has to resort to whateva one has. If you reduce or demolish his credibility, inter alia, labouring on his shortsightedness, his stubbornness to listen to alternative views etc, on his investment losses, you will have weakened the very foundation of PAP power. CSJ was shrewd enough to go head to head with LKY in court, and maybe CSJ made a fool of himself (court procedurewise), I thot he managed to scratch LKY quite abit and poke chinks in his armor. I have to take my hat off to him for standing up to him in kamikazi fashion. He did walk away bolder. I dont think LKY will say again he is prepared to goto court and defend blah blah..So LKY sued him and triggered the fight headon. CSJ's principle I could see is this: win the democratic battle (freedomof speech etc) and you'll get the space to fight the rest.

p/s. I am not a SDP supporter but just going by the verbal debates here.