Guess who was old man's favourite lunch partner for years

[scroobal]

I could never explain the bond and many people were confused by it. Over the years I formed the impression that both these men loved politics to the hilt and constantly shared the adrenalin rush.

I too found DN despite all his comments from Canada never ever revealed anything about the old man and his abuses and there many. What I know of is that E W Barker and Nathan worked behind the scenes to patch things up but to no avail.

It was quite bizarre actually. People of office have since time memorial have run afoul of society, committed major gaffes and misdeeds more serious than this but things could have easily have been covered up. I wonder why this fall-out went public.

Dear Scroo

I really wonder as to what bonded or kept these group of men through thick and thin. That basement gang which included GKS, TCC, SR and the rest. LKY was the first amongst equals but he allowed after his memoirs came out the role of SR GKS to be honored in print and with a state funeral. The rest have someone faded into the background including TCC and I would love to hear what the archives have to say once they are opened.

If I would fault the founders for anything , it would be leaving the scene and allowing LKY to perpetuate his dominance unchecked which has given rise to the PAP of today. They all fell out, but they fell out quietly and behind the scenes and took their secrets to their graves. DN could have said a lot unchecked from Canada, but alas he was less forthcoming then wiki leaks six years after his death, ditto for TCC GKS and RJ and so I hope the archives will have more



Locke

 

[scroobal]

I am sure there were many skeletons but it was one bizarre relationship.

Perhaps there were too many skeletons in the closets of each of them. Any revelation by one could lead to an unpredictable tit-for-tat by the rest, which could result in some form of mutually assured destruction for all concerned. The Official Secrets Act would be an additional deterrent, especially since LKY remains in de facto control of the PMO until recently, and his ruthless demolition of all those who fall out of line is legendary.

 

[eatshitndie]

They were indeed very close. What Devan asked, Devan got. Devan asked for a scholar cadres to be seconded to NTUC on govt pay and he got them. Devan asked for identical Admin payscale for his equivalent "Admin Team" and they were paid accordingly. Not the bottom of the barrel. What led to the break-up is a mystery to all.

was ramseth one of those scholar cadres seconded to ntuc? after all, he is the mostest handsomest yantao chap on the block, after forvendet.

 

[scroobal]

Here is another shocker. Devan Nair, Lim Chin Siong after his return from London and old man kissed and made up. They kept in touch. If you look back at history closely there 2 camps and it had nothing to do with rivalry.

Camp 1 was old man, Devan Nair and Lim Chin Siong. I sensed they came close because their respected each others position as leaders.

Camp 2 was revolved around GKS. Eu Chooi Yip, Samad, Raja, Kim San . Kim San, Eu and GKS were friends and classmates. Eu introduced Raja to GKS. Eu and Samad were equals and led the communists. It was Samad who introduced LCS to old man.

 

[scroobal]

No lah bro. I think it was something that only freud could explain.

Isn't it obvious? In 1984 when Gay Loong resigned from the SAF to pursue a political career, everyone could see that he was being groomed to be the successor to Old Goat. I don't know Nair personally, but I can't see him being very happy to literally preside over the start of an old style feudal chinese dynasty. I am sure he spoke his mind to Old Goat on this issue. Lesser PAP elites just shut their mouth and kept quiet for the sake of peace with Old Goat. Nair probably told him that what he was doing was bullshit, and knowing Gay Loong like he did, he probably realised there are better candidates to lead Singapore in the future. When Old Goat did not back down and wanted still intended for gay loong to succeed him, Nair probably told him that he will use the office of the president to block Gay Loong's appointments to the various ministerial posts that he was arrowed to hold.

I am sure at this stage, Old Goat blew up, took it very personally, whacked Nair good and proper, and than for good measure changed the Presidency legislatively, so that another president will never happen defy him again. He had pursuaded Nair to take the presidency assuming that Nair would be ok with his masterplan for gay Loong. Turn out he misread Nair, so, now must whack him.

 

[scroobal]

They asked Ramseth to keep to keep any eye on the opposition. He was supposed to keep a low profile, form discrete associations, cultivate susceptible individuals etc. Handsome, ponytail, has the highest profile online, offline and in public. I won't be surprised if Devan Nair knows him personally.

was ramseth one of those scholar cadres seconded to ntuc? after all, he is the mostest handsomest yantao chap on the block, after forvendet.

 

[Papsmearer]

No lah bro. I think it was something that only freud could explain.

U mean a lover's tiff?

 

[scroobal]

The fact that someone labelled the two as Mutual Admiration Club suggest that both admired each other for their prowess in handling politics. No one seems to know what these two guys chat about. When you look at it, they were very skillful and successful in their respective political space.

U mean a lover's tiff?

 

[kingrant]

DN didnt like being "kicked upstairs", as he had put it, after being set up for Prez. For some reason, and this is probably the enigma, Old Man wanted him to be Prez.

Soon after being Prez, DN whacked everybody with his mouth and his grasp of English he had a sharp tongue and became known as a "scolding President". In one case, I think he whacked the doctors (I stand corrected, or the Medical Council) at one of his speeches. It became too hot to handle for Old Man and things went downhill, as DN was a loose cannon and Old Man was loosing grip on him.

There were also all these sightings reported that he (DN) wore disguises to get out of the boring Istana with his beer buddies, or had nightly rows at the istana after drinking. Then maybe Choo didnt like him after that. Then came the Sarawak longhouse affair, and that probably was the lever for Old man. DN gave up the Anson seat to accept the Prez post, and the seat was lost to JBJ. Maybe they quarreled over that, because it was indeed a major loss.

You see, DN was a great pal but also a fearsome enemy when he became one. So LKY had to find something excruciatingly surgical to remove or demolish the Mamak, or Old Man would become embarrassed by his antics.

Any side story/corrigendum to this, Scro?

 

[kingrant]

Here is something I found from back when where (http://www.singapore-window.org/sw99/90329gm.htm)

• [SIZE=+2]Former president criticises suppression of dissent[/SIZE]
  

  ---

  <tt>Globe and Mail. Canada. March 29, 1999
  BY Marcus Gee</tt>

• [SIZE=-1]RELATED:
  Requiem for an unbending Singaporean[/SIZE]- [SIZE=-1]Devan Nair
  [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Singapore Court asked to wind up Workers' Party
  Jeyaretnam faces bankruptcy court again
  
  [/SIZE]IN the Singapore of the early 1980s, Lee Kuan Yew was the captain and Devan Nair his loyal lieutenant. Mr Lee, independence leader, then prime minister and now senior minister of the tiny Southeast Asian city-state, laid down the law. Mr Nair followed it. As head of the national trade union congress, then president of Singapore, he loyally parroted the "LKY" line on the importance of social order, the dangers of Western-style democracy and the evils of littering.

• Then, in 1985, came a shocking break. Mr Lee told Singapore's parliament that Mr Nair had resigned because he was an alcoholic, a charge Mr Nair now calls a baseless slur. Three years later, he left Singapore for good after publicly quarrelling with Mr Lee over the arrest of a well-known government critic. Then he dropped from sight.
  For the past few years, Mr Nair has been living quietly in Hamilton, Ontario. He has given no interviews and made few public statements. "I thought it was unseemly for a former president to go whacky-whacking his country," he says.
  Those days of silence are over Mr Nair has decided to speak out against the continuing suppression of legitimate dissent in his country. And so, last week, he sat down in the sun-lit drawing room of a friend's house near Hamilton to talk about Lee Kuan Yew, how they drew apart and what he thinks of Mr Lee's Singapore today.
  Now 75, Mr Nair is a compact man with a mischievous smile. Sipping a glass of water, he speaks in a plummy baritone that commands attention.
  Mr Nair got to know his "captain" when the two were fighting to free Singapore from British colonial rule in the 1950s. A teacher whose father emigrated from India, Mr Nair taught Shakespeare while he was a member of the Anti-British League, an irony he still savours. When the British threw him in jail as a subversive, holding him for a total of five years, Mr Lee was his lawyer.
  The two remained close after Singapore won its freedom from Britain. Together, they fought off an attempted communist takeover, weathered Singapore's ejection from the neighbouring federation of Malaysia and transformed their country from a run-down sea port to an economic dynamo bristling with skyscrapers. "I supported him because he was an eloquent champion of the dreams I had for Singapore," Mr Nair says.
  But as Singapore grew prosperous and stable and the communist threat faded, Mr Nair began to have doubts about his captain's iron-fisted methods. Perhaps sensing his ally's doubts, Mr Lee asked Mr Nair to leave his power base as head of the trade union congress and move into the presidential palace. As Mr Nair puts it, "He kicked me upstairs."
  Being president, he says now, was "the silliest job in the world. All you had to do was cut ribbons." His frustration grew.
  But before he could speak out, Mr Nair found himself at the centre of a rumour-mongering campaign that labelled him a drinker and womanizer. He says he was neither, and he suspects that Mr Lee had government doctors slip him hallucinatory drugs to make him appear befuddled. "Lee Kuan Yew decided: This man is going to be a threat, so I'd better begin a total demolishment of his character. He's very good at that."
  A case in point: the recent battering of Singapore's most determined dissident, J. B. Jeyaretnam. Singapore doesn't lock up its critics any more; it sues them, instead. Mr Jeyaretnam has faced countless libel suits from Mr Lee and other members of his government. If the party doesn't pay the damages in the most recent suit, the government hints it will ask the courts to shut it down, a move that would oust Mr Jeyaretnam from parliament.
  That, says Mr Nair, is an outrage. Mr Jeyaretnam has shown "indomitable courage and dignity in the face of the vilest persecution."
  Why didn't Mr Nair challenge his leader at the time? That question has haunted him ever since. "I was prone to hero worship and he was our captain," he says, lowering his head. "Even when I began to feel uneasy, loyalty to the captain superseded all other feelings. That was my weakness."
  Mr Nair is not bitter. He gives Mr Lee credit for making Singapore a wealthy, stable place, an accomplishment in which he is proud to have shared. But how much greater that accomplishment would be if Singapore were a wealthy stable democracy. To him, Singapore today is a soulless place whose only ideology is materialism. Whether he could have changed that, Mr Nair wishes now he had spoken up earlier.
  
  
  
  ​

 

[kingrant]

From the G&M story I fished out, there could even be a sinister mother of all conspiracies when I connect the dots. Brothers here shld also read the link within the report Requiem for an Unbending S'porean by DN. It had to be a very strong reason why they fell out so here is my version:

So when DN was being kicked upstairs, he resigned his Anson seat to become Prez. Holding more democratic principles and being more liberal, he might even have purposely asked his supporters to secretly vote for JBJ, because evidently DN thought highly of him. When Anson was lost to JBJ, it got Old Man's goat. When he found out later that DN had secretly engineered the victory for JBJ for more noble purposes like the advancement of democracy, that got Old Man's balls between clamps. To him, that was a cruel betrayal and the most unkindest cut of all. So the knives are out and he had to take his pound of flesh.

I too found DN despite all his comments from Canada never ever revealed anything about the old man and his abuses and there many.

It was quite bizarre actually. People of office have since time memorial have run afoul of society, committed major gaffes and misdeeds more serious than this but things could have easily have been covered up. I wonder why this fall-out went public.

 

[scroobal]

Quite interesting. In fact not only Anson but his main portforlio, NTUC, his followers did the exact samething and managed to kick out Lim Chee Onn, the scholar and old man's nominee. His number 2 man in Anson was Ong Ah Heng and because of what happened in Anson was temporarily banished.

I think DN found out very quickly that the Presidency was as powerful as an ornamental piece on someone's mantle.

If you read through all DN's criticisms, there is nothing that points to why they fell out. DN seems to keep going disputing the fact that he is not an alcoholic.

From the G&M story I fished out, there could even be a sinister mother of all conspiracies when I connect the dots. Brothers here shld also read the link within the report Requiem for an Unbending S'porean by DN. It had to be a very strong reason why they fell out so here is my version:

So when DN was being kicked upstairs, he resigned his Anson seat to become Prez. Holding more democratic principles and being more liberal, he might even have purposely asked his supporters to secretly vote for JBJ, because evidently DN thought highly of him. When Anson was lost to JBJ, it got Old Man's goat. When he found out later that DN had secretly engineered the victory for JBJ for more noble purposes like the advancement of democracy, that got Old Man's balls between clamps. To him, that was a cruel betrayal and the most unkindest cut of all. So the knives are out and he had to take his pound of flesh.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroo

it's amazing, that despite all that you stated none of the men with LKY from the start revolted against him, none of them led factions which lived past their departure from politics and non of their sons became GIC chairs , chiefs , SAF scholars all noted for their obscurity expect for the infamy of The son of GKS who will forever be a hero to the boys of my era. Was LKYs family really that amazing ? Or is there something to the theory of PAP that the ascension of LHL ruffled feathers


Locke


QUOTE=scroobal;832684]I could never explain the bond and many people were confused by it. Over the years I formed the impression that both these men loved politics to the hilt and constantly shared the adrenalin rush.

I too found DN despite all his comments from Canada never ever revealed anything about the old man and his abuses and there many. What I know of is that E W Barker and Nathan worked behind the scenes to patch things up but to no avail.

It was quite bizarre actually. People of office have since time memorial have run afoul of society, committed major gaffes and misdeeds more serious than this but things could have easily have been covered up. I wonder why this fall-out went public.[/QUOTE]

 

[rusty]

He is smart and cunning enough to even have you guys riding on such thread.
Hard evidence?
Try harder bros.

 

[scroobal]

I am aware that old man had a strict quid pro quo arrangement with his Cabinet. He did not interfere with their portfolios. So there was no desire to rebel or form faction. I found that hard to believe as he was a control freak. Those close to the family thought that it was his wife that made sure that he kept the arrangements intact. Also note that he allowed the second generation to pick their own leader and again something out of step with his control personality. Again the wife is suspected to have influenced him.

Then again, who knows.

Dear Scroo

it's amazing, that despite all that you stated none of the men with LKY from the start revolted against him, none of them led factions which lived past their departure from politics and non of their sons became GIC chairs , chiefs , SAF scholars all noted for their obscurity expect for the infamy of The son of GKS who will forever be a hero to the boys of my era. Was LKYs family really that amazing ? Or is there something to the theory of PAP that the ascension of LHL ruffled feathers


Locke


QUOTE=scroobal;832684]I could never explain the bond and many people were confused by it. Over the years I formed the impression that both these men loved politics to the hilt and constantly shared the adrenalin rush.

I too found DN despite all his comments from Canada never ever revealed anything about the old man and his abuses and there many. What I know of is that E W Barker and Nathan worked behind the scenes to patch things up but to no avail.

It was quite bizarre actually. People of office have since time memorial have run afoul of society, committed major gaffes and misdeeds more serious than this but things could have easily have been covered up. I wonder why this fall-out went public.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Ramseth]

A lot of wishful thinking from state of denial disbelieving that old man is that great. It's all because of psychological self inadequacy and inferority complex. Henceforth, self consolatory stories about how his wife controlled matters from behind the curtains. Face it guys, there was no such thing. LKY always has a mind of his own regardless of who's his wife. KGC may be capable, well the perfect choice for someone like LKY for rearguard position but certainly had no say in whatever LKY does in political power plays, only obey and carry out orders.

 

[kingrant]

I won't be surprised how much presence and influence Choo had in his life, from the colour of his socks to the length of his shirt sleeves. That's the power of love she controlled over the Old Man. Nothing to feel inadequate about. If you couldnt get in yr foot at the door, it's because Choo told him so.

A lot of wishful thinking from state of denial disbelieving that old man is that great. It's all because of psychological self inadequacy and inferority complex. Henceforth, self consolatory stories about how his wife controlled matters from behind the curtains. Face it guys, there was no such thing. LKY always has a mind of his own regardless of who's his wife. KGC may be capable, well the perfect choice for someone like LKY for rearguard position but certainly had no say in whatever LKY does in political power plays, only obey and carry out orders.

 

[Rogue Trader]

I know there's a conspiracy theory about DN's spectacular fall from grace. But I've also heard from reliable sources about his drunken fisaco in the kuching hospital. And they are people who have no vested interest in local politics... So to me, the jury is still out....

 

[red amoeba]

A lot of wishful thinking from state of denial disbelieving that old man is that great. It's all because of psychological self inadequacy and inferority complex. Henceforth, self consolatory stories about how his wife controlled matters from behind the curtains. Face it guys, there was no such thing. LKY always has a mind of his own regardless of who's his wife. KGC may be capable, well the perfect choice for someone like LKY for rearguard position but certainly had no say in whatever LKY does in political power plays, only obey and carry out orders.

from what i heard, his wife did have an influence over him...and he listen to his wife, even during public appearance ./ situation.

 

[cass888]

I think that was what made LKY mad at DN. Allowing it to go public in a foreign land.

But I've also heard from reliable sources about his drunken fisaco in the kuching hospital.