Guess who was old man's favourite lunch partner for years

[kepala butoh]

Let's be a bit more accurate here. The Old Man had many lunch partners. But there were times when lunch would be a quiet affair even between the two of them.

His favourite lunch buddies were Kim San and Raja. Devan was too as is Pung How later - one of his few contemporaries who hasn't become old and decrepit yet.

Devan didn't have a "security detail" as such but did have a SO accompanying him. The reason was that the Communists considered him a turncoat and some of the threats were real enough during his NTUC tenure.

Of course later as President, he had a proper security detail. I wouldn't say they used each other as they were brothers in arms who fell out. To be fair, Devan's demise was very much his own doing though I think the retirement pay offer could have been better handled. Again, the country had never faced a scandal of that sort before and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

He often had (even until recently) MPs for the odd lunch talk where he discussed "hard truths" which were fair enough as many were still wet behind the ears.

Look, we may not be dyed in the wool LKY fans here (now that's an understatement) but on that August night in 1965, cometh the man and cometh the hour - he and a band of others stood up to be counted. All said and done - he was voted in office for years and years and had the intestinal fortitude while you cunts didn't.

 

[bullfrog]

I'm surprised altho I kind of thot him because of the ego factor. But they never did get along famously. Each was using the other. esp Old Man. Old Man never trusted him completely. Acc to Old Man's own memoirs, he spoke derisively of him.

Well done bro. It is indeed Devan Nair. It tells you how the Press was controlled and how privacy of the the day to day running of Sri Temasek was kept under wraps.

They first made contact in Sept 1952 when the old man as a young Cambridge trained lawyer was retained by the Publisher of Utusan Melayu ( who eventually becomes the first President of Singapore) to represent his staff who was detained by British in St John Island. That staff was Samad Ismail, the most astute Communist whose intelligence and guile was unparalleled. Old man visits his client in St John Island and a short Indian asshole of a detainee called Devan Nair fronts up to see if he his Lawyer had turned up. His lawyer does not and he seeks the advice of old man.

Old Man when he returns to mainland seeks out the Special Branch No 2 - Richard Corridon to enquire about on Devan Nair's background. He finds out that Devan is Lim Chin Siong closest confidant and the spokeman for the formidable Middle Road gang.

The friendship lasted 33 years. One took care of the Govt and the other the workers movement. One fought with Barisan and the political parties and the other fought SATU. They used one and another to bring their enemies to heel.

In late 1984, something occurred between the two and things began to fall apart.

 

[refulgence]

I'm surprised altho I kind of thot him because of the ego factor. But they never did get along famously. Each was using the other. esp Old Man. Old Man never trusted him completely. Acc to Old Man's own memoirs, he spoke derisively of him.

Sounds like a case of keeping your friends close, but keeping your enemies closer.

 

[streetsmart73]

hi there


1. aiyoh!
2. no offence, who really cares with whom or what broken record lunch with?
3. could be some rat, snake or sheep?

 

[scroobal]

Take it easy bro. Never said that he dined with one. I never said that DN was fixed up. You got to brush on comprehension.

1) There was no one who came close to the number of times that these 2 met for lunch. Not even remotely close. Purely on a numbers basis, DN was miles ahead. I am talking about every week at least once maybe twice of three times. Never seen a professional relationship where lunch meetings were so frequent. The Stanchart MP had frequent lunches with her boss but nothing professional about that.

2) Yes, about SO. Cabinet Ministers on most occasions are also a single SO. Imagine not even a cabinet or a senior govt official. The issue is not about being turncoat but the little known fact that he had an SO. There is no such thing as a single SO. There is always a detail to cover in terms of leave, extended shift and special occasions.

These facts will give more clarity on their relationship especially its depth. It also points to his position in the hierarchy. I am sure you appreciate what these facts reveal. People have better insights and they make their own judgement.

Let's be a bit more accurate here. The Old Man had many lunch partners. But there were times when lunch would be a quiet affair even between the two of them.

His favourite lunch buddies were Kim San and Raja. Devan was too as is Pung How later - one of his few contemporaries who hasn't become old and decrepit yet.

Devan didn't have a "security detail" as such but did have a SO accompanying him. The reason was that the Communists considered him a turncoat and some of the threats were real enough during his NTUC tenure.

Of course later as President, he had a proper security detail. I wouldn't say they used each other as they were brothers in arms who fell out. To be fair, Devan's demise was very much his own doing though I think the retirement pay offer could have been better handled. Again, the country had never faced a scandal of that sort before and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

He often had (even until recently) MPs for the odd lunch talk where he discussed "hard truths" which were fair enough as many were still wet behind the ears.

Look, we may not be dyed in the wool LKY fans here (now that's an understatement) but on that August night in 1965, cometh the man and cometh the hour - he and a band of others stood up to be counted. All said and done - he was voted in office for years and years and had the intestinal fortitude while you cunts didn't.

 

[scroobal]

They were indeed very close. What Devan asked, Devan got. Devan asked for a scholar cadres to be seconded to NTUC on govt pay and he got them. Devan asked for identical Admin payscale for his equivalent "Admin Team" and they were paid accordingly. Not the bottom of the barrel. What led to the break-up is a mystery to all.

I'm surprised altho I kind of thot him because of the ego factor. But they never did get along famously. Each was using the other. esp Old Man. Old Man never trusted him completely. Acc to Old Man's own memoirs, he spoke derisively of him.

 

[scroobal]

It was not the case with these two. The first cabinet was well aware of it. Mind DN was a covenor and founding member of the PAP. It was a relationship that began from first contact.

I will give a clue how close they were. When Operations ColdStore was launched even Rajaratnam did not have the details or knew of the time. Like everyone else, they knew it was going to happen. DN together with GKS was well briefed. The rest of the cabinet was not told.

Sounds like a case of keeping your friends close, but keeping your enemies closer.

 

[lee6100]

They were indeed very close. What Devan asked, Devan got. Devan asked for a scholar cadres to be seconded to NTUC on govt pay and he got them. Devan asked for identical Admin payscale for his equivalent "Admin Team" and they were paid accordingly. Not the bottom of the barrel. What led to the break-up is a mystery to all.

Reminds one of Glenn Knight's break-up and subsequent career demise. Can shed some light here?

 

[neddy]

Look, we may not be dyed in the wool LKY fans here (now that's an understatement) but on that August night in 1965, cometh the man and cometh the hour - he and a band of others stood up to be counted. All said and done - he was voted in office for years and years and had the intestinal fortitude while you cunts didn't.

I used to be a fan too, but his ability to have a cult following set off a series of events that undermine nation building and lost opportunity to build a strong foundation for Singapore's future. He overstayed his welcome and no one should be allowed to let him out of the casket if Singapore (more like his own family) is in trouble and he is expiring.

At least I still have great respect for Nelson Mandela, his "enlightenment" in Robben Island turned him into a great statesman, and this respect turned into reverance with his willingness to step aside once his mission is completed. Lee Kuan Yew is nowhere near him in this regard.

"you cunts" - Wow. blaming others?

 

[cass888]

So why did they fall out? If what you say is true, they probably fell out not because of what DN did (since LKY knew) but because DN got caught.

It was not the case with these two. The first cabinet was well aware of it. Mind DN was a covenor and founding member of the PAP. It was a relationship that began from first contact.

I will give a clue how close they were. When Operations ColdStore was launched even Rajaratnam did not have the details or knew of the time. Like everyone else, they knew it was going to happen. DN together with GKS was well briefed. The rest of the cabinet was not told.

 

[Papsmearer]

For decades one particular man was old man's favourite lunch partner for years. This person would be at Sri Temasek at least once a week. He was never a cabinet minister but had security branch detail.

Is it Hockstadt?

 

[kepala butoh]

I used to be a fan too, but his ability to have a cult following set off a series of events that undermine nation building and lost opportunity to build a strong foundation for Singapore's future. He overstayed his welcome and no one should be allowed to let him out of the casket if Singapore (more like his own family) is in trouble and he is expiring.

At least I still have great respect for Nelson Mandela, his "enlightenment" in Robben Island turned him into a great statesman, and this respect turned into reverance with his willingness to step aside once his mission is completed. Lee Kuan Yew is nowhere near him in this regard.

"you cunts" - Wow. blaming others?

Harry never overstayed his welcome. Election after election, he was overwhelmingly welcomed to stay. "You cunts" are the ones who complain and still voted for him. Not blaming others - telling it like it is. He didn't set up a cult so much as the sheep followed the shepherd. The Poll Box said so.

He didn't only lunch at the Istana by the way - when his office was in City Hall, he'd trot over to Parliament House to the Member's room and lunch there. The Empress Place Hawker's Centre was a big favourite - delivery service to the House.

 

[brocoli]

They were indeed very close. What Devan asked, Devan got. Devan asked for a scholar cadres to be seconded to NTUC on govt pay and he got them. Devan asked for identical Admin payscale for his equivalent "Admin Team" and they were paid accordingly. Not the bottom of the barrel. What led to the break-up is a mystery to all.

in the his memoirs, he call him a short swarty man and said he dun trust him...

in Men in white, they said old man cried cause he was worried that the Malaysia MP might be killed!!!

so who to believe... SPH cant even make up their mind

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroo

I really wonder as to what bonded or kept these group of men through thick and thin. That basement gang which included GKS, TCC, SR and the rest. LKY was the first amongst equals but he allowed after his memoirs came out the role of SR GKS to be honored in print and with a state funeral. The rest have someone faded into the background including TCC and I would love to hear what the archives have to say once they are opened.

If I would fault the founders for anything , it would be leaving the scene and allowing LKY to perpetuate his dominance unchecked which has given rise to the PAP of today. They all fell out, but they fell out quietly and behind the scenes and took their secrets to their graves. DN could have said a lot unchecked from Canada, but alas he was less forthcoming then wiki leaks six years after his death, ditto for TCC GKS and RJ and so I hope the archives will have more



Locke

It was not the case with these two. The first cabinet was well aware of it. Mind DN was a covenor and founding member of the PAP. It was a relationship that began from first contact.

I will give a clue how close they were. When Operations ColdStore was launched even Rajaratnam did not have the details or knew of the time. Like everyone else, they knew it was going to happen. DN together with GKS was well briefed. The rest of the cabinet was not told.

 

[refulgence]

Dear Scroo

I really wonder as to what bonded or kept these group of men through thick and thin. That basement gang which included GKS, TCC, SR and the rest. LKY was the first amongst equals but he allowed after his memoirs came out the role of SR GKS to be honored in print and with a state funeral. The rest have someone faded into the background including TCC and I would love to hear what the archives have to say once they are opened.

If I would fault the founders for anything , it would be leaving the scene and allowing LKY to perpetuate his dominance unchecked which has given rise to the PAP of today. They all fell out, but they fell out quietly and behind the scenes and took their secrets to their graves. DN could have said a lot unchecked from Canada, but alas he was less forthcoming then wiki leaks six years after his death, ditto for TCC GKS and RJ and so I hope the archives will have more


Locke

Perhaps there were too many skeletons in the closets of each of them. Any revelation by one could lead to an unpredictable tit-for-tat by the rest, which could result in some form of mutually assured destruction for all concerned. The Official Secrets Act would be an additional deterrent, especially since LKY remains in de facto control of the PMO until recently, and his ruthless demolition of all those who fall out of line is legendary.

 

[halsey02]

They were indeed very close. What Devan asked, Devan got. Devan asked for a scholar cadres to be seconded to NTUC on govt pay and he got them. Devan asked for identical Admin payscale for his equivalent "Admin Team" and they were paid accordingly. Not the bottom of the barrel. What led to the break-up is a mystery to all.

He rubbed the 'magic lamp' too often & at the wrong place, the 'Genie' got fed up!

 

[Papsmearer]

Look, we may not be dyed in the wool LKY fans here (now that's an understatement) but on that August night in 1965, cometh the man and cometh the hour - he and a band of others stood up to be counted. All said and done - he was voted in office for years and years and had the intestinal fortitude while you cunts didn't.

Intestinal fortitude my ass. He is the biggest piece of cowardly shit on the island. Its easy to keep getting voted in when you illegally use the full force of the state to whack your political opponents with unlimited jail time, bankruptcies, intimidation and harassment. And he has to do this why? Because he is too cowardly to stand up and fight a clean political battle with another person. U want to see intestinal fortitude? Just go and look at the hundreds of thousands sinkies who are trying to get by after having their jobs taken by one his FTs, seen their kids have to go to another school because FT kids are running amok in their first choice, put up with the crush at the MRT, rising prices brought on by his policies, etc. These are the people with the real intestinal fortitude, and u are the cunt for not being able to see that.

 

[kingrant]

I think you better change yr nick to kepala batu lah. Even butoh too good for you.

Look, we may not be dyed in the wool LKY fans here (now that's an understatement) but on that August night in 1965, cometh the man and cometh the hour - he and a band of others stood up to be counted. All said and done - he was voted in office for years and years and had the intestinal fortitude while you cunts didn't.

 

[Papsmearer]

They were indeed very close. What Devan asked, Devan got. Devan asked for a scholar cadres to be seconded to NTUC on govt pay and he got them. Devan asked for identical Admin payscale for his equivalent "Admin Team" and they were paid accordingly. Not the bottom of the barrel. What led to the break-up is a mystery to all.

Isn't it obvious? In 1984 when Gay Loong resigned from the SAF to pursue a political career, everyone could see that he was being groomed to be the successor to Old Goat. I don't know Nair personally, but I can't see him being very happy to literally preside over the start of an old style feudal chinese dynasty. I am sure he spoke his mind to Old Goat on this issue. Lesser PAP elites just shut their mouth and kept quiet for the sake of peace with Old Goat. Nair probably told him that what he was doing was bullshit, and knowing Gay Loong like he did, he probably realised there are better candidates to lead Singapore in the future. When Old Goat did not back down and wanted still intended for gay loong to succeed him, Nair probably told him that he will use the office of the president to block Gay Loong's appointments to the various ministerial posts that he was arrowed to hold.

I am sure at this stage, Old Goat blew up, took it very personally, whacked Nair good and proper, and than for good measure changed the Presidency legislatively, so that another president will never happen defy him again. He had pursuaded Nair to take the presidency assuming that Nair would be ok with his masterplan for gay Loong. Turn out he misread Nair, so, now must whack him.

 

[scroobal]

Wow Bro, you brought something out that is quite interesting.

When Singapore was kicked out from Malaysia, Nair was MP for Bangsar, the only PAP candidate that managed to win in the Malaysian GE. Old man wanted him to return for safety reasons. The story goes that old man was so upset that he could not sleep. Choo sent out SOS to DN in KL that husband cannot sleep because of him. DN came back and when to see him at Oxley and told him that he cannot walk out from his constituency as a matter of honour. I thought it was bizarre. Anyway DN asked Tun Ismail for gun licence and got it.

in the his memoirs, he call him a short swarty man and said he dun trust him...

in Men in white, they said old man cried cause he was worried that the Malaysia MP might be killed!!!

so who to believe... SPH cant even make up their mind