GMS Selling Home To Contest Election 吴明盛破釜沉舟背水一战

[Perspective]

Let's not kids ourselves. There is no doubt that the PAP ministers and politicians are greedy. But that does not mean that just because you are an "opposition" politician, you are different from them.

Look at Steve Chia. Barely 5 months into the job and he was asking for his NCMP allowance to be raised by 600%.

Why else do you think PEP politicians like LTK praise, echo and parrot the very politicians they are supposed to oppose if not because of money? Because they are being "gentleman"? Or because they don't want to break that $190,000/year rice bowl?

Do you honestly believe that if the "opposition" came into power, they will vote to reduce their million dollar salaries if they are made ministers?

Fair enough. The issue then is why then do you think we should question only the opposition and not the PAP, since both sides are greedy? Maybe you did and I didn't spot, but up till now I am under the impression that you are only questioning the opposition and not the PAP (FYI I have blasted the PAP as well as NSP's GMS and when I blasted GMS it was more credible and less below the belt).

That is important in lieu of the fact that right now, why only is the PAP greedy and allowed to satisfy their greed.

 

[Perspective]

This was what Perpective posted:

"Originally Posted by Perspective
Are you the financial adviser of GMS? Thought you wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. Why would you decide for him that he should be putting his money in CPF?"

This was my reply to him:

"You should be happy that I am assuming that GMS is honest in his tax returns, has some grey matter between his ears and has, as a matter of simple common sense, chosen this option."

Now tell me. Which part did you not understand? Which part do you find "objectionable"? The part where I say I work on the assumption that you are "honest"? Would you rather I work on the assumption that you are dishonest?????

You don't have to put my remarks to him or his to mine. The issue I raised about whether a businessman should put money in CPF OA and you said yes if he wants to be honest. Now, what has a choice of putting money or not got to do with honesty? You have since given another lame explanation but that is something else. But to glare the word "honest", to me, is clearly intentional.

 

[Perspective]

Goh Meng Seng has just posted this in his thread:

"Originally Posted by Goh Meng Seng
I have categorically stated that the amount of cash that could be gained from such sales would only be about $30K to $40K. Just a small amount to chip in for the party War Chest to help finance other candidates."​

Hence, the reasoned assumption that I made that he is paying for his mortgage through his CPF and will get a small portion back in cash (and not the hundreds of thousands that the gullible were led to believe) is spot on.

The other reasoned assumption that I made that he stands to lose no more than $30K dovetails with this $30-$40K figures he has revealed. Once he gets that $14,000 deposit back, his losses if any, will be between $16-$26K even based on his own calculations.

It's rather strange - GMS is criticised for making a lot of money from sales of his flat, and also criticised for making little money from sales of his flat, and criticised for themselves wrongly assuming that the proceeds is little or a lot.

Perhaps if his critics can get their act together and unite under a non-self-contradictory platform, they might be able to bring him down better and faster.

 

[Perspective]

i think that's obvious, isn't it?

armchair quarter-back at it's best....

I don't think so. If you said YP sounds more like GN, I would believe. CVN has a different debate strategy. YP and GN tend to use selective fact highlighting and distortion. CVN goes for "ji tong ya jiang" replies.

 

[cleareyes]

GMS, Chau Ve Nist is Gopalan?

I m wondering about that too.

If this fellow is the good-for-nothing balless indian who had thrown away Singapore Citizenship for US protection and yet still put himself as one concern for Singapore, he is not worth the trouble talking to as he is not here to solve any problem but create more.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Yellow

Sitting down and collecting rental is not an act of business acumen. If that is acumen then Malaysian Ali Ba Ba Bumi "entrepreneurs" collecting rental are geniuses of the first order. The asset was a grandfather legacy FROM UMNO, and the best that they have done with it was not to have burnt it down in disputes over the rental collected from that building to which none of them deserve.




Locke

 

[chewed]

I don't think so. If you said YP sounds more like GN, I would believe. CVN has a different debate strategy. YP and GN tend to use selective fact highlighting and distortion. CVN goes for "ji tong ya jiang" replies.

Perspetive,

for all we know, it's multiple nicks at play. either way, if it's GN, then AFAIC, he has no credibility whatsoever, after the 2 stunts he pulled in the last few months.

 

[Shin Orochi]

GMS, Chau Ve Nist is Gopalan?

Hmm.. interesting

 

[kingrant]

In China, lower ranking officials are questioning central govt's call to declare assets. They are saying that this will create social instability. Logic they say is that if you declare you are rich, then the peasants will say you must be corrupt; if you say you are poor, they say you are lying. So damned if you do damned if you don't.

I think we are getting some vibes here..

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Locke,

Even people who are bankrupts could claim that they have business acumen! Just that they refuse to pay their debts and hiding their earnings and assets elsewhere. Of course, when there is a need to, they will suddenly have the money to pay part of their initial debts to clear themselves from bankruptcy. They could well say that's the kind of business acumen they are talking about. No sweat.

There are very successful businessmen in NSP and I believe Yellow knows it very well. Sebastian Teo, Tan Chee Kien etc. But whether they are wealthy or successful or not, it has nothing to do with me nor the party. It is up to them to decide how much money they are willing to commit and both of them have in the past, contributed substantially to the opposition cause. However, for me, I may not be the the successful nor wealthy businessman thus I think selling my flat, which serve me well in all scenarios, could well help me in doing my part as the leader of the party. Dr. Sun Yat Sen wasn't that kind of wealthy and successful businessman with that kind of "business acumen" that Yellow is looking for. However, his passion and commitment has motivated a lot of wealthy businessmen at that time to contribute to his cause.

I guess Yellow has been totally poisoned by PAP's modern definition of "Success" in terms of politics. Well, just let him be.

Goh Meng Seng

Dear Yellow

Sitting down and collecting rental is not an act of business acumen. If that is acumen then Malaysian Ali Ba Ba Bumi "entrepreneurs" collecting rental are geniuses of the first order. The asset was a grandfather legacy FROM UMNO, and the best that they have done with it was not to have burnt it down in disputes over the rental collected from that building to which none of them deserve.




Locke

 

[scroobal]

Actually the issue is indeed you, and interestingly "high emotive" manner that you are "not being able to understand the obvious that money is required for elections."

Whether fluke, contrived / staged or by accident - the announcement by Ramseth has the desired impact or intended impact. That's pretty much common sense. I am sure you are not naive or gullible enough to be believe that PAP got into power or retains its hegemony because it was "assumed to be honest".

Lets not be childish or immature and continue to split hairs.

Despite to the contrary or the attempt to project a cool and collected image by using words and terms to suggest that the other part is highly emotive, you seem be overly upset that peasants or honest Singaporeans are going to be severely disadvantaged or screwed by GMS and Ramseth.

Please don't me tell you are one those half-wits who grew up thinking the old man raised his family in Oxley and not at the Istana.

Now you know why politicians including Chee, Chiam and PAP with the exception of GY does not bother to engage the general public. There will always be detractors who feel that they must say something contrary just to be appear intelligent and someone of standing is engaged with them.

In gist, any normal politician will milk the campaign in anyway he can. Here is another tidbit - the name Harry was dropped for what purpose? His wife and the entire first cabinet and his friends call him by what name even today. If you have the time, take your thumb out and post something that contributes positively to the campaign. You writing off GMS completely is not going to make anyone lose any sleep. You are suggested that the other party is highly emotive and you are cool certainly calls for a chuckle and maybe a snigger.

ps. left you something to nitpick - most of the entire cabinet are dead, so might not be able to call him anything. You might want assume that I am "dishonest" for not revealing that most of them are dead and start an engagement. By the way, I am expecting short terse but witty retort of some sort to give the impression of suave and intelligent. Don't let me down.

The issue is not about me not being able to understand the obvious that money is required for elections. It is about your announcement through a third party which has led the gullible to think you were going to sacrifice a few hundred thousand dollars for country and citizens. It is about you, your handler and party mates who were happy to go along with this impression created on the gullible until it was pointed out that this cannot be so.



Highly emotive but totally irrelevant and worthless to what is being discussed.

 

[scroobal]

I agree. YP has raised some very credible points in the past but his folly is that he has no canvas to paint on so GMS will do.

CVN is another kettle of fish. His agenda is he himself. Note that he assumes that everyone else is gullible and need help from him. He thinks that he is Moses, cool with no signs of emotions guiding the peasants thru after parting the red sea.

Maybe he can help us gullible peasants and do an audit of GMS's financials and tell us if GMS is cheating us wholesale.

I don't think so. If you said YP sounds more like GN, I would believe. CVN has a different debate strategy. YP and GN tend to use selective fact highlighting and distortion. CVN goes for "ji tong ya jiang" replies.

 

[scroobal]

I could never figure you out. Not sure if you are a child or senile old man. You are equating politicians with Mother Theresa.

Here is a primer:

The most important role of a politician is to mold and shape policies for the general good of the society. He does that either on the right or left side of the house of parliament. That is where the impact is measured. In parliament and during the debate, the general public can tell if he has reading of his constituents and acts for them and the general good of the country. He has limited amount of time and resources within a 24 hr day and he be everywhere. Especially if he has yet to be elected and has limited means.

A politician is completely useless to you and me if he spends his time doing social work for the community.

What you are looking for is a property maintenance agent, a social worker or a charitable group that needs dopamine fixes.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WINNING AND LOSING AN ELECTION COULD JUST BOIL DOWN TO THIS QUESTION : WHAT HAS THE CANDIDATE(S) DONE FOR THE RESIDENTS???
Please do NOT dismiss this question as unimportant!

 

[Shin Orochi]

interesting, kilan !

What's the matter? Can't speak already?

 

[elephanto]

LOL ! At last, the moment I have been waiting for ....

Infrequent though his postings may be these days, the ex-moderator can still give the 'deserving' forummers a piece of his mind

CVN had it coming for a long time ... but Scroo, you will be disappointed. For sure he will reply, sarcastically whining that he is not afraid of so many ganging up on him .... I don't think he is cool as evidenced during the Jack Neo debate with kingrant when he was so traumatized by a mere infraction!

He appeared to have the upper hand in this thread some days back when I exasperatedly watch bro lockeliberal playing to his rules, engaging him on semantics non-stop while peacock Chau literally smirked in showing off his googling skills & amassing tons of facts to show he is well backed (but alas unsound in logic & common sense). At least, bro perspective treated him short & sharp with the contempt he deserved. All his Nobel Peace prize talk & childish talk of indulging kingrant becos he is a 'good' man are positively nauseating.

I personally think he is an intellectual vainpot, trying to stake out his old-timer forummer status as well (despite a change of nick as claimed) - I find his PEP concept distasteful & 'non-Malays owing the bumiputras a higher respect' doctrine ludicrous.

Actually the issue is indeed you, and interestingly "high emotive" manner that you are "not being able to understand... Don't let me down.

CVN is another kettle of fish. His agenda is he himself.

As for bro sampierre, all I can say is he is always true to type: he will always be fixated on (1) GMS not organizing enough grassroot activities & (2) not looking after minority needs better since NSP has only rare few malay candidates in cec or on party ranks.......

I honestly cannot understand his obsessive fixation on these 2 points such that without fail, he will remind/chastise GMS whenever the opportunity arises .....
still he is still a diehard Oppo supporter & does not stink like the smug Mr Know-It-All CVN.........

I could never figure you out...What you are looking for is a property maintenance agent, a social worker or a charitable group that needs dopamine fixes.

 

[yellow_people]

I could never figure you out. Not sure if you are a child or senile old man. You are equating politicians with Mother Theresa.

Here is a primer:

The most important role of a politician is to mold and shape policies for the general good of the society. He does that either on the right or left side of the house of parliament. That is where the impact is measured. In parliament and during the debate, the general public can tell if he has reading of his constituents and acts for them and the general good of the country. He has limited amount of time and resources within a 24 hr day and he be everywhere. Especially if he has yet to be elected and has limited means.

A politician is completely useless to you and me if he spends his time doing social work for the community.

What you are looking for is a property maintenance agent, a social worker or a charitable group that needs dopamine fixes.

I agree with what you say here regarding the role of a politician, most crucial the performance in parliament and how he reads general sentiment. If we were to use that as a yardstick to measure LTK role in parliament, he fails miserably in the eyes of the public and is often viewed as ineffective with some of the PAP backbenchers being more vocal in raising issues.

Interesting when that is pointed out in this forum, his supporters have been in the past quick to point out that LTK was elected by Hougang constituents and his role is to manage the TC. Even LKY has commended LTK for doing a better job managing TC than some of his own MPs. In turn LTK has given PAP the thumbs up even though public sentiments couldn't be further. If LKT retains his MP seat, it would have more to do with his ability to manage the TC rather than his performance or lack of in parliament.

Therefore Sampierre query is not unreasonable. How an MP will be perceived and judged as a manager or mayer of town councils will also factor in to some degree on the voter's decision.

GMS on the other hand fails miserably on both counts. He is unable to debate, has a complete lacks the ability to get his message across effectively, argues on piecemeal policies and makes tasteless and degrading comments regarding minorities. Worst of all he is stubborn, does not know when an argument is lost and gets into petty squabbles. GMS has a penchant for always getting his foot in his mouth. This is not the mark of a politician.

His latest attempt to sell his flat to supposedly finance his election bid has flopped miserably as has his other schemes. This does not bode well even when GMS is just viewed as a TC mayor. What it underlines is that GMS is completely disorganized and utterly unprepared for elections.

There are other ways to fund the 30k or 40k needed, either through party donations drives and on their website. NSP could also hold a funding dinner with $$ per table from well-wishers.

Given the groundswell of disaffection for the ruling party, NSP should have no problems getting the 40k in donations either way. The public donated millions to NKF after all what's 40k? It appears NSP has not even done that.

This is why the bid to sell the flat is viewed increasingly as a attention grabbing stunt and GMS is not exactly new to providing high comedy and theatre on sammyboy.

It would be interesting to see what GMS does if PAP declares elections tomorrow or on Monday.

 

[yellow_people]

Dear Locke,

Even people who are bankrupts could claim that they have business acumen! Just that they refuse to pay their debts and hiding their earnings and assets elsewhere. Of course, when there is a need to, they will suddenly have the money to pay part of their initial debts to clear themselves from bankruptcy. They could well say that's the kind of business acumen they are talking about. No sweat.

There are very successful businessmen in NSP and I believe Yellow knows it very well. Sebastian Teo, Tan Chee Kien etc. But whether they are wealthy or successful or not, it has nothing to do with me nor the party. It is up to them to decide how much money they are willing to commit and both of them have in the past, contributed substantially to the opposition cause. However, for me, I may not be the the successful nor wealthy businessman thus I think selling my flat, which serve me well in all scenarios, could well help me in doing my part as the leader of the party. Dr. Sun Yat Sen wasn't that kind of wealthy and successful businessman with that kind of "business acumen" that Yellow is looking for. However, his passion and commitment has motivated a lot of wealthy businessmen at that time to contribute to his cause.

I guess Yellow has been totally poisoned by PAP's modern definition of "Success" in terms of politics. Well, just let him be.

Goh Meng Seng

No, actually I am very surprised that both Sebastian Teo and Tan Chee Kian are wealthy and successful men even though NSP is broke. I'm sure Teo and Tan are nice people but I do not think much of their business or political acumen unfortunately, as they did pick up what Low Thia Kiang threw in the garbage bin.

If I were Teo, I wouldn't put too much of my own money in NSP either. At the looks of things you are threatening to completely derail NSP's election bid, if not destroy what's left of the party.

Anyway what does Teo and the rest of your NSP cadre think of your clown act?

Is there no way at all to raise funds by other more dignified means, other than to come to Sammyboy to announce sale of your 4 rm flat?

Did you at least attempt the following to raise 30k to 40k through NSP:

1. Solicit funds and donations from supporters early?
2. A donations drive on the road and through the Internet?
3. A fund raising dinner?
4. Sales of calenders, newspaper, souvenirs?

If I have been poisoned, it is thanks to opposition riff rafts such as yourself, GMS.

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

Dear Chau You have also ignored GMS stated intent that he would help fund the party as a whole. .

Whether he "helps" the party or not is not the issue. The issue is how much he stands to lose at the end. It's not the few hundred thousands that some of the gullible has been led to believe. We are now told that it is $30-$40K.

I would rather an Opposition any opposition those that i like or do not like use the money to grow an alternative to check the PAP Locke

Agree. But if you look at the PEP politicians that we have, growth hardly seems on their mind. CST since 1984, 26 years. LTK since 1991, 19 years. What exactly have they grown besides their personal bank accounts growing a little fatter from the few millions they have made in MP allowances after a combined 45 years in politics?

To be fair to them, I believe they came into opposition politics driven by their beliefs and idealism. But the comfortable life from a very comfortable MP income (and future pension) that many complain have afflicted PAP MPs, have, if we want to be honest, struck them too and have reduced them to PEP politicians. How different are these PEP politicians from the PAP's Tan Cheng Bock or Tan Soo Khoon? I will say, they are in fact worse.

Sorry to say this but GMS, like Steve Chia before him, strikes me as a tikam-tikam one dimensional politician. Win I stay. Lose and I move to Hongkong. Frankly, I can't see him being anything but a PEP politician, i.e if he can actually win a seat in the first place.

 

[Chau Ve Nist]

When you have not elaborated, especially it had nothing to do with what was initially discussed, it can be misleading. Because the words "honest" rang loudly on the screen as if thereby giving the impression that we were discussing the person honesty. In my view, this "rang" was intentional.

I assume a certain intelligence and knowledge amongst posters and can't be elaborating everything. I used the word honest and stated that you are lucky I work on the assumption he is honest. You can take it to mean what you want to take it to mean. No skin off my nose.

Now, you're again assuming that all businessmen who do not contribute to CPF (and I mean the OA since I know the MA is compulsory) has to be because they were disguising business profits as losses. I leave it to readers to decide whether someone who thinks most businessmen have the norm to contribute to CPF OA and those who do not hide business losses, has credibility in this view.

I assume nothing. I said "some" and this has happened. That information is publicly available.

Recoverable, yes, but not easily obtainable. To use an extreme analogy, you might think it is easier to borrow $500 than to ask for $50 gift, since the former is a loan and the latter is to give. However it can be the other way around.

As I said, the issue of "expensive" is subjective. $30-$40K may seem like a lot of money to someone who is young and who has just entered the workforce. But after 20-25 years of being in business, I expect a person to have some sort of personal savings. That $40K can be saved if you set aside just slightly over $150/month for 20 years.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

I would add as a caution that despite all the faults of Chiam and Low, they have proven that the opposition candidate can run a town council effectively despite the PAP barriers and impediments and challenged the PAP at times.

A politician is not a social worker or a estate manager, but the structure of the parliamentary system in SINGAPORE means that he leads such activities at a minimum.

I shudder at the next opposition candidate who wins a seat and forgets about the lessons taught by Cheo and Ling about how to lose a seat the next round.





Locke