From identified forummers to secretary generals

[Goh Meng Seng]

Locke,

Contrary to what we know, there is no longer "First among equals" in the ruling party. You have the MM, SM etc. How to have "equals" when there are already pre-determined seniority?

And contrary to what you and Perspective may think, there isn't any "Robots" in NSP. I cannot speak for other parties but in NSP, nope. If there are no "Equals" in the mindset, I wouldn't be able to become the SG within a period of 3 years.

I did not "gun" for the SG post of NSP, contrary to what Perspective may think. If I want to be the SG of any sort, it would be easier to form a political party than become a "late comer" to a well established NSP of twenty plus years. NSP is no small party to begin with. A party with its own organ aka newspaper.

There are only 4 parties with their own newspapers; i.e. WP, NSP, SDP and RP. The first three are established ones except RP which is a relatively new party. I am not sure how often SDP and RP change their issues, but for WP and NSP, there are at least 2 to 3 issues per year. WP should have about 4 issues per year.

Do you really think they are all "robots"? I truly doubt so. If they are, I would have become the SG in a very short period of time instead of spending 3 years to earn my stripes!

Goh Meng Seng

Dear Perspective

There is a world of difference between First amongst robots and first amongst equals. The Singapore that we know today was built on the old guard where LKY was first amongst equals.

If opposition parties follow the principle of First amongst robots then we will forever be doomed to an endless repetition of first idiot amongst other lesser idiots.





Locke

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Scroobal,

Although I too find it regrettable that NSP wasn't able to convince Tilik to join us and instead he decided to form his own party, but I wish him well.

In a way, I have mixed feelings. If there are only a few dominating opposition parties, it would be easier "to be seen as united" front. But it would also mean that there will be little choices for people with different aspiration and ideological inclinations to choose from. At the very least, it would create factions within these parties or worse, infighting that may break it into two or more.

I do not see it as the result of PAP's divide and conquer but rather, a natural development process. From now on, people who want to join opposition politics will have more platforms to choose from. Note that Tilik's party is actually quite "ideologically based" by the name it chose. This is a good sign. Apart from being the usual "fighting for democracy, human rights etc etc", it is now set to have a proper ideological based on Socialism.

It is really an interesting time ahead.

Goh Meng Seng

More like MLM set-up.GMS and Chia were in WP, then Chia and Go started tailing SDP, then Chia and Teck Siong via Ejay. Tomorrow Seelan will start his own based on his ties with Chia, followed by Rachel.

Looks like PAP's divide and conquer for their ethnic segregation policy is now part of the national psyche.

I wonder why the lack of common ground. Is Ms Go going for value add economy built on high valued labour while Ng Tiong prefers a liberal arts focus and GMS likes to cover the hard working elites who have been neglected.

 

[cass888]

Stand back Sec-Gens Low Thia Khiang (WP), Chiam See Tong (SPP), Chee Soon Juan (SDP), Kenneth Jeya (RP) and last but not least Lee Hsien Loong (PAP). Sammyboy is here to stay!

Out of 8 parties, 3 are now led by Sammyboy members!

Noooooooooooooo. We don't need a mongrel who bites his masters' hands like lLOUDHAILER chee soon juan!!!

 

[jw5]

Most people will not understand why there are more opposition political parties or see it from the point of view of the individuals forming the new parties.
They will simply view it as opposition disunity.

 

[Perspective]

Note that Tilik's party is actually quite "ideologically based" by the name it chose. This is a good sign. Apart from being the usual "fighting for democracy, human rights etc etc", it is now set to have a proper ideological based on Socialism.

Goh Meng Seng

PAP - Former Socialist
NSP - Democratic Socialist
USD - Democratic More Than Socialist
SF - Socialist With Democracy
SDP - Socialist Democratic
WP - Democratic And Socialist
SDA - Democratic Society
RP - Pluralistic Democratic Socialist

How come I start sounding like Fivestar huh?

 

[Sideswipe]

Most people will not understand why there are more opposition political parties or see it from the point of view of the individuals forming the new parties.
They will simply view it as opposition disunity.

We have WP, SDP, SDA, NSP, RP contesting the next GE.
5 parties or entity only, not a lot. It's not like there are 20 oppositions parties contesting the next GE.

more opposition parties might lead to more elections contest and hopefully less walkovers.

 

[Perspective]

I did not "gun" for the SG post of NSP, contrary to what Perspective may think. If I want to be the SG of any sort, it would be easier to form a political party than become a "late comer" to a well established NSP of twenty plus years. NSP is no small party to begin with. A party with its own organ aka newspaper.

Hallo, gun is not cannon lah. Gun takes 3 years, cannon is immediate.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Hallo, gun is not cannon lah. Gun takes 3 years, cannon is immediate.

Perspective, I walked into NSP with Hawaii shorts and straw hat!

I have never thought of wanting to be the SG or whatsoever. I have even stepped down from the CEC for that short while due to my "flying commitments". I am just there to help out in whatever ways I can initially.

Having gone through partisan politics in WP, I understand it is not easy to be the SG or the leader of the party. I have hesitated for quite a while before I agree to take up the SG post.

Well, let's put it this way. I would be very happy to be focusing all my effort and time on Tampines GRC instead of having to divert my effort and time to manage the whole party. Gunning for the NSP SG post? Nah, never taken aim at that. Interested in Tampines GRC maybe, but definitely not the SG post.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Perspective]

Perspective, I walked into NSP with Hawaii shorts and straw hat!

I have never thought of wanting to be the SG or whatsoever. I have even stepped down from the CEC for that short while due to my "flying commitments". I am just there to help out in whatever ways I can initially.

Having gone through partisan politics in WP, I understand it is not easy to be the SG or the leader of the party. I have hesitated for quite a while before I agree to take up the SG post.

Well, let's put it this way. I would be very happy to be focusing all my effort and time on Tampines GRC instead of having to divert my effort and time to manage the whole party. Gunning for the NSP SG post? Nah, never taken aim at that. Interested in Tampines GRC maybe, but definitely not the SG post.

Goh Meng Seng

Ok ok, gun for Tampines. Just don't point a REAL gun at Mabok Tan..... you become terrorist like Mas Selamat!

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

The " first amongst equals " is in itself an interesting leadership concept that varies widely in practice extent and form. At its most basic, it is is an interesting mix of political ambition, political ego, intelligence, leadership and trust.

LKY and the old guard and Singapore was fortunate in that respect. They were willing to trust him in terms of leading the cabinet and the team , and he was willing to trust them even when they disagreed with him. I also suspect that the reason that team was so stable was due to the fact that non of them saw themselves in any way as potential replacements for LKY thus a very practical and stable " first amongst equals >'

The present cabinet still follow the basic tenets of the "first amongst equals principals. " That of collective and joint cabinet decision making. Cabinet ministers will leave and have left over major policy decisions they have disagreed with, The Prime MInister will still have to win the confidence of his party and parliamentary colleagues in order to be Prime Minister in a "straight " vote.

The subtle differences lie in the manner in which the tenets are applied and the underlying power structures and influences. For example the old guard and LKY were also jointly founding members of the PAP. The current structure as it stand involves the PM or some other PAP member selecting key people from outside the party :_)) immediately before any GE. That in my mind just means that outsiders will have a more difficult time cementing or building factions within the PAP which leaves in essence the current Prime Minister as the King maker and makes less likely a cabinet or parliamentary party coup. Thus the power equation has shifted subtly in favor of those who have remained and stayed the longest.

How much room is there for agreement or disagreement ? Independence of mind independence of action only results when one has the financial and political lattitude to tell the King that he has no clothes .




Locke

 

[leetahbar]

This is crap. Nicks, polls and nominations don't mean a thing in cyberspace. One person can have multiple accounts. The OA is a hard core anti PAP one man army of 260 clones and accumulating. Sam is smart not to remove the infraction feature otherwise he will have to spend triple the amount of time clearing spam that he does now.

Where are these assholes now?? Gone into hiding. No balls to face the OA.

SamuelStalin
yellow_people
tonychat
lancheowman

queer forums such as sbf kopitiam are corrupted by SDP IB and their legion of ninjas and turtles cowardly clones of a handful of losers who do not practise what they are often preaching.

they are out to slam other more established opp parties especially wp, sda and now rp. nsp is mercifully spared due to the increased credentials of ah seng.

why do they do it? think PAP and u should begin to suspect they could be the secret double agents from paps camp.

the formation of new opp parties is a redundant move especially if u notice that they are linked previously with SDP. again think pap. sdp = pap and all out to disseminate,weaken and sow suspicion and disunity among the opps.

 

[leetahbar]

QUOTE=lockeliberal;494115]Dear Perspective

There is a world of difference between First amongst robots and first amongst equals. The Singapore that we know today was built on the old guard where LKY was first amongst equals.

If opposition parties follow the principle of First amongst robots then we will forever be doomed to an endless repetition of first idiot amongst other lesser idiots.





Locke[/QUOTE]

chee must be screaming within himself:

IDIOTS!! I M SURROUNDED BY IDIOTS!!!

 

[leetahbar]

Locke,

Contrary to what we know, there is no longer "First among equals" in the ruling party. You have the MM, SM etc. How to have "equals" when there are already pre-determined seniority?

And contrary to what you and Perspective may think, there isn't any "Robots" in NSP. I cannot speak for other parties but in NSP, nope. If there are no "Equals" in the mindset, I wouldn't be able to become the SG within a period of 3 years.

I did not "gun" for the SG post of NSP, contrary to what Perspective may think. If I want to be the SG of any sort, it would be easier to form a political party than become a "late comer" to a well established NSP of twenty plus years. NSP is no small party to begin with. A party with its own organ aka newspaper.

There are only 4 parties with their own newspapers; i.e. WP, NSP, SDP and RP. The first three are established ones except RP which is a relatively new party. I am not sure how often SDP and RP change their issues, but for WP and NSP, there are at least 2 to 3 issues per year. WP should have about 4 issues per year.

Do you really think they are all "robots"? I truly doubt so. If they are, I would have become the SG in a very short period of time instead of spending 3 years to earn my stripes!

Goh Meng Seng

ask ourselves what are the REAL MOTIVES from the 2 new extra kelefe opp parties. are those incumbents more for the peasants or more for themselves.

why do these people do not wanna join into existing opp parties especially SDP which they were once very active and supportive in?

do they have a AUTHENTIC DIRECTION to better the lives of voters or they are simply there to mess up votes count knowing that they are already quite notoriously famous?

i ve this very warped feeling about them like they were trying to display IF I COULDN'T HAVE IT, SO DO THE OTHER OPP PARTIES kind of mentality here.

 

[kelingkia]

@*^&$%!#(.

 

[Ramseth]

PAP - Former Socialist
NSP - Democratic Socialist
USD - Democratic More Than Socialist
SF - Socialist With Democracy
SDP - Socialist Democratic
WP - Democratic And Socialist
SDA - Democratic Society
RP - Pluralistic Democratic Socialist

How come I start sounding like Fivestar huh?

There're more opposition secretary-generals in Singapore than there're brigadier-generals in the armed forces.

There're also more opposition secretary-generals in Singapore than there're opposition Members of Parliament.

Opposition secretary-generals outnumber the PAP secretary-general above 5:1.

PAP MPs outnumber opposition MPs 82 to 2.

 

[kingrant]

Print it on T-shirts - but not red ones pls.

There should be a grassroot program to promoting sammyboy. Get them to print out just sammyboy.com and paste it all over the island.

 

[jw5]

There're more opposition secretary-generals in Singapore than there're brigadier-generals in the armed forces.

There're also more opposition secretary-generals in Singapore than there're opposition Members of Parliament.

Opposition secretary-generals outnumber the PAP secretary-general above 5:1.

PAP MPs outnumber opposition MPs 82 to 2.

I don't think your first statement is correct.

 

[Ramseth]

I don't think your first statement is correct.

Resigned and wearing the reservist title, no count.

 

[kingrant]

Locke,

Are you not academicising the leadership model too much? LKY dominated his team by sheer force of his personality and the rest of the Party CEC also knew that nobody in the CEC could match him for his oratorical skills and very convincing way of speaking, except Lim Chin Siong. But the latter was better with the Chinese speaking crowds than the British, the tengku and the English educated.

The same could not be said of his son. They practically live on different planets. He seemed to be the reluctant PM, out of expectation by his father. The picked team fell in place watched by the Old man and everybody tried to be good team players, not upstaging the son and to show they were capable of hunkering down together to weather crises.

There is to me no first among equals principles involved. At diff times of life, men are thrown together, and a rare few will rise as stars to the occasion and emerged as the fittest survivor, a Social Darwinistic phase at work. Close would-be rivals will have to ask themselves if they could command the respect of the majority if take over. In LKY's case, those who were alongside him demurred, whereas the ones who could have challenged him e.g. Lim Chin siong, were preempted. LKY has a natural Machiavellian streak to do the things he has done. I doubt his son would have succeeded. His son is better off taeching at a university or CEO.

Dear GMS

The " first amongst equals " is in itself an interesting leadership concept that varies widely in practice extent and form. At its most basic, it is is an interesting mix of political ambition, political ego, intelligence, leadership and trust.

LKY and the old guard and Singapore was fortunate in that respect. They were willing to trust him in terms of leading the cabinet and the team , and he was willing to trust them even when they disagreed with him. I also suspect that the reason that team was so stable was due to the fact that non of them saw themselves in any way as potential replacements for LKY thus a very practical and stable " first amongst equals >'

The present cabinet still follow the basic tenets of the "first amongst equals principals. " That of collective and joint cabinet decision making. Cabinet ministers will leave and have left over major policy decisions they have disagreed with, The Prime MInister will still have to win the confidence of his party and parliamentary colleagues in order to be Prime Minister in a "straight " vote.

The subtle differences lie in the manner in which the tenets are applied and the underlying power structures and influences. For example the old guard and LKY were also jointly founding members of the PAP. The current structure as it stand involves the PM or some other PAP member selecting key people from outside the party :_)) immediately before any GE. That in my mind just means that outsiders will have a more difficult time cementing or building factions within the PAP which leaves in essence the current Prime Minister as the King maker and makes less likely a cabinet or parliamentary party coup. Thus the power equation has shifted subtly in favor of those who have remained and stayed the longest.

How much room is there for agreement or disagreement ? Independence of mind independence of action only results when one has the financial and political lattitude to tell the King that he has no clothes .




Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

The opposition in Singapore suffers from an excess of ego pride and ambition without delivering any noteworthy results. Singapore and democracy has suffered for it. I can't help but shake my head in despair at the number of idiots and robots who want to be Indian Chiefs with no indians to speak about.

Ng Teck Siong and that ugly saga over the reform party is illustrative of the excesses and stupidity within the opposition camp and why it will never attract real political talent nor groom them for that matter. The personal need to be in control and to be king of their own mountain however small and ineffectual overrides any instinct for the greater good.

Who or what was Ng Teck Siong without JB ? Was he a figurehead or was he someone in his own right an opposition political leader ? Who was he or how could he hope to stop or even control the rise of KJ in his father's party ? Was his notion of him using KJ for his own political ambitions nothing short of delusional ? And the fact that he sets up his own party after leaving RP points to his own naked political ambition.

My dear GMS after having climbed the slippery slope to the top........how much political ambition can you take from people below you ? Or for that matter would you even recruit five or six kj 's and TKLs into your party ? How would you lead them and on what basis ? That is the nature of politics




Locke