Fivestars & NSP's Official Stand -Please clarify

[scroobal]

Like most groups, everyone has an individual agenda. Believe me the term "non partisan" was carefully crafted as the foundation for coming to together. In their context it is a signal to say that they are not against the PAP but are serious political players.

By the way, they were all political players as they only focused on issues that was political in nature as opposed to NGOs. And clearly no one mistook them for the usual NGO.

I don't think Roundtable was formed for that purpose although some like Raymond Lim harboured the ambition. Certainly not Cherian or Kevin Tan. Zulkifli Baharudin and Simon Tay were keen no doubt.

 

[Ramseth]

Perspective said it best. Whether PAP or YAP, it's more of a supporters' club and business network than a political. Practically, all MPs and Ministers are sourced from outside the party and parachuted in for election and office.

It's ironic, if you want to be a PAP MP or Minister, never join PAP. Wait for them to call you, keep your professional profile high and dry and clean, keep your fingers crossed and wait for that call. If you walk-in and ask for membership form, that's the end of your ambition.

PAP apparently believes in the Liu Bei-Zhuge Liang logic. If people come forth and volunteer help, good and welcome. But for the serious higher ranks, one's got to hunt for the people. Good people don't go around volunteering, just like good products are never put on sale.

 

[scroobal]

Do agree and I think you articulated it well.

Perspective said it best. Whether PAP or YAP, it's more of a supporters' club and business network than a political. Practically, all MPs and Ministers are sourced from outside the party and parachuted in for election and office.

It's ironic, if you want to be a PAP MP or Minister, never join PAP. Wait for them to call you, keep your professional profile high and dry and clean, keep your fingers crossed and wait for that call. If you walk-in and ask for membership form, that's the end of your ambition.

PAP apparently believes in the Liu Bei-Zhuge Liang logic. If people come forth and volunteer help, good and welcome. But for the serious higher ranks, one's got to hunt for the people. Good people don't go around volunteering, just like good products are never put on sale.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Perspective said it best. Whether PAP or YAP, it's more of a supporters' club and business network than a political. Practically, all MPs and Ministers are sourced from outside the party and parachuted in for election and office.

It's ironic, if you want to be a PAP MP or Minister, never join PAP. Wait for them to call you, keep your professional profile high and dry and clean, keep your fingers crossed and wait for that call. If you walk-in and ask for membership form, that's the end of your ambition.

PAP apparently believes in the Liu Bei-Zhuge Liang logic. If people come forth and volunteer help, good and welcome. But for the serious higher ranks, one's got to hunt for the people. Good people don't go around volunteering, just like good products are never put on sale.

You may have it half right.

The reason why most ministers are not from the rank and file is that the top Leaders want to be the "appointers" that "empower" the ministers through their "selection power".

Keeping your ministers out from your main cadre network will prevent strong factions. This is the kind of power thinking. The SOURCE OF POWER comes from the top leaders and you own your position as ministers not due to your power base from the party cadre or factions, but directly from the few who have the great power of appointment!

The only problem is that factionalism starts to take place on the top leadership; i.e. those who at the top who have the power of appointment and empowerment. Thus, we start to see steep competition right now for those people fighting for their positions to be intact.

It is not so much so about "Liu Bei-Zhuge Lian" kind of mentality but rather, the main consideration is the consolidation and centralization of power within the very few on top. The cadre just becomes the rubber stamp in the end because they do not have the REAL power of appointment or empowerment basically because the power of nomination of ministerial candidates are left to the very few on top.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Ramseth]

I tried to put it subtlely but Meng Seng has put it elaborately or even bluntly. No disagreement anyway.

 

[scroobal]

Factionalism was first addressed when they introduced the Papal model of cardinals, in this case Cadres. There are 2 main ones then - pro comminist and anti Communist. They even went to the extent of creating silos and Chinese walls between branches. The only known factions are prior to this such as the teachers and the unionists.

During the Anson By elections, there was internal party dissent when Pang Kim Hin was appointed over Ong Ah Heng to replace Devan Nair. Ong was sent outside Anson on forced exile but after rehabilitation made an MP to appease the party faithful.

As you correctly pointed out, loyalty is not to the party but to the few that are well above the party.

You may have it half right.

Keeping your ministers our from your main cadre network will prevent strong factions. This is the kind of power thinking. The SOURCE OF POWER comes from the top leaders and you own your position as ministers not due to your power base from the party cadre or factions, but directly from the few who have the great power of appointment!

 

[Perspective]

Keeping your ministers out from your main cadre network will prevent strong factions.

This is quite an interesting point and new. Imagine if the PAP minister not only leaves the cabinet but also splits the party because 10% of its membership is loyal to him.

However I think Ram is also right about the Zhuge mentality. Believing in corporate management skills = governance skills, the PAP can't find CEOs of listed XYZ Ltd too busy enough to spare time carrying tables and chairs for an RC Christmas event for them to spot. I think both are valid, while what Ram cited is the primary practical consideration to the PAP, what you cited is an additional advantage of doing so and I'm sure there are more.