F&B Owners. Are you sure no manpower???? Whats yr Big Bullshit????

[jw5]

They are indeed SPVs as they offload risk from the balance sheet and still draw an income. Good point.

Good but obvious point.
So no need to manipulate annonymous internet monikers ok scroobal, you cunning moron?

 

[Logisex]

In ang mo countries, the ang mos tip the waiters not only because its a practice and a show of appreciation, they also know that its hard work and the waiters' pay are low. So tipping is a way of motivation and beefing up their income.

In Singapore, we are forced to pay the 10% service charge and where does the money goes to?

 

[chupacabra]

It's a common practice now for FnB joints to work their staff split shifts for 6 days a week. Which in actually fact 12 hours or 72 hours a week. It's even worst for kitchen staff because you end up doing free work during your splits because that's the only time that prep work can be done. Add traveling time and you got another 12 hours out in the shithole.

 

[scroobal]

Seems rather unfair to get people to do prep work during shifts. I know that NTUC is hopeless but surely this is quite blatant abuse.

It's a common practice now for FnB joints to work their staff split shifts for 6 days a week. Which in actually fact 12 hours or 72 hours a week. It's even worst for kitchen staff because you end up doing free work during your splits because that's the only time that prep work can be done. Add traveling time and you got another 12 hours out in the shithole.

 

[halsey02]

In ang mo countries, the ang mos tip the waiters not only because its a practice and a show of appreciation, they also know that its hard work and the waiters' pay are low. So tipping is a way of motivation and beefing up their income.

In Singapore, we are forced to pay the 10% service charge and where does the money goes to?

To the boss & to another bigger boss, that charges 7%...are 10% tax, taxable? since it is affordable??

 

[jw5]

Seems rather unfair to get people to do prep work during shifts. I know that NTUC is hopeless but surely this is quite blatant abuse.

It's also rather unfair to target opposition politicians, when they do not have the chance to reply to your bogus allegations.

Of course, in the meantime, you make little fake stabs at the pap to try and enhance the "standing and credibility" of your internet moniker.

Cunning piece of shit.

 

[iluvgst]

The wages in F&B are NOT artificially depressed.

Assuming a person works 4 hours a day during the weekday evenings and 8 hours on the weekends, that person can earn $1728 to $2160 per month as a waiter. This is a relatively attractive wage. The problem is that few Singaporeans are keen to work these hours which are the peak periods if you run a F&B business. They would all rather work office hours which is why the pay during the office hours is so low. Implementing a minimum wage (e.g. $8 an hour) won't solve the problem since the issue is not low wages during office hours but that no one wants to work the weekday evenings and weekends.

The only way you can get Singaporeans to work weekday evenings and weekends is if they own the business. This was the case when mom and pop operations dominated the F&B industry. The PAP messed the whole industry up by opening up to FT and killing off most of the mom and pop operations. With these gone, we are now stuck with the chains with their lousy overpriced food served by armies of lowly paid "FT".

Hmmm... Based on your reasoning, no Singaporean would want to be doctors or lawyers. They too work long and often irregular hours, particularly the doctors who have to do nights. The plain simple reason is the f&b industry bosses don't want or cannot pay well enough.

 

[chootchiew]

Employers should just take the business out of Singapore and teach some of your fuckers a lesson.

It is better for them to remove business from sg than to exploit people.

 

[Cestbon]

Not shortage of manpower but shortage of cheap labour for them to maximise their profit.

They want cheap labor , If they can offer $2k/month working 45hr/week sure no problem finding worker. Worker will be Q up for interview. But F&B want worker work 12hr/day for 6 day/week and salary only $1500/month nett.

these F&B owners want workers to work 12hr shift with $1000 pay.

I blame the pap for spoiling these owners, addicting them with cheap labour, slavery and giving them false hope.

the days of cheap labour and slavery in SG is over and the sooner they wake up, the better it is for SG

 

[greenies]

Not shortage of manpower but shortage of cheap labour for them to maximise their profit.

Exactly, they are looking for CHEAP labour.
This labour shortage does not affect our hawker centre business as they are purely by local workforce.
Who care if they charge rich customers more should waiters/ waitresses earn more.

 

[chupacabra]

I have no sympathy for FnB outlets in peesai. Alot of these places their prices are similar or more expensive than eating at restaurants in other major cities. A Jap restaurant in Woodlands makes almost 800k a month but employ 95 percent FTs working 12 hour shifts. If they were to close due to the lack of staff, another restaurant will take it's place intermediately because of the high human traffic and potential.

 

[chupacabra]

The wages in F&B are NOT artificially depressed.

Assuming a person works 4 hours a day during the weekday evenings and 8 hours on the weekends, that person can earn $1728 to $2160 per month as a waiter. This is a relatively attractive wage. The problem is that few Singaporeans are keen to work these hours which are the peak periods if you run a F&B business. They would all rather work office hours which is why the pay during the office hours is so low. Implementing a minimum wage (e.g. $8 an hour) won't solve the problem since the issue is not low wages during office hours but that no one wants to work the weekday evenings and weekends.

The only way you can get Singaporeans to work weekday evenings and weekends is if they own the business. This was the case when mom and pop operations dominated the F&B industry. The PAP messed the whole industry up by opening up to FT and killing off most of the mom and pop operations. With these gone, we are now stuck with the chains with their lousy overpriced food served by armies of lowly paid "FT".

What restaurants are you referring to that offers these wages? I have more than 20 years experience in peesai FnB line, there is no difference in pay for busy areas like Orchard and non busy areas in peesai. Now current max for wait staff is 8 bucks or less an hour. Even for skilled experience cooks or chef who wants to work part time is about the same hourly rate.

You must have gotten Australia and peesai mixed up. There is no high wages for work at night or weekends. It is the same rate across the board. If you have any links of at least 10 places in peesai that offers more pay for night shift and weekends, please post here for all to see.

Whereas anybody here can go to gumtree and call up all the restaurants that are offering positions and asked for themselves how much the rate is. Even the casinos restaurants are paying less than 8 bucks an hour.

 

[andyfisher]

of kos, the makan shop bosses sure complain,
it was boom town charlie due to artificially low pays due to FTs, who wouldnt?

 

[chupacabra]

The problem with the F&B industry is that most Singaporeans DO NOT want to work evenings, weekends and public holidays. If you look at adverts, the pay for office hours average $6 per hour. Evenings, weekends and public holidays, it shoots up to $12 to $15 an hour with still no takers.

The solution to the problem is NOT more FT but a return to the past. The F&B industry today are cluttered with chains serving lousy overpriced food. If you look back to the 80's and 90s, you will probably remember a time when the F&B industry was filled with small mom and pop outlets. The food was cheaper and tasted much better. As these were family run enterprises, there was never a need to have an army of lowly paid foreign workers. The families ran the outlets and put in whatever hours without complaint as it was their own business.

We are in the mess we are in today thanks mainly to to Ng Eng Hen and later Gan Kim Yong who opened up the sector to FT and decimated the mom and pop eateries.

Where are the restaurants that the pay miraculously shoots up at nights and weekends? Out of the thousands of restaurants in peesai please show only 10. You must got Alberta and peesai mixed up.

All one needs is to go to a job site like gumtree and call up any Orchard road or casino restaurant and ask them their part time rate. Don't just take my word or yours for that matters. Part time rates in peesai is not a survivable rate.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Good point. But in oz they dont tip or seldom tip. The 10% svc charge was brought up in the past. But nothing has been done.

Concerning tipping in sg. Will never happen as it cant b tax. Pap will b dulan about it.

In ang mo countries, the ang mos tip the waiters not only because its a practice and a show of appreciation, they also know that its hard work and the waiters' pay are low. So tipping is a way of motivation and beefing up their income.

In Singapore, we are forced to pay the 10% service charge and where does the money goes to?

 

[aurvandil]

I am fairly sure of the wage numbers. They are so high assuming you are willing to work the shifts no one wants. If you are working the regular popular hours, the take home crashes to $1200 to $1500 because you will be drawing an average of $6 per hour as opposed to $12 to $15 per hour for evenings and weekends.

The present FT policy is massively wasteful and inefficient. The chains hire FT based on the peak period capacity. Since the FT are paid a fixed wage as opposed to an hourly basis, the chains require them to show up for work regardless of the crowd. This results in the outlets being massively overstaffed during non peak periods.

On other countries, the F&B industry is only dominated by chains in countries where there is massive pool of cheap labor to exploit. In countries where there is no cheap labor to exploit, the chains tends to be restricted to MacDonald's type fast food. Alongside we have a large number of mom and pop operators as Singapore used to have in the past.

On REITS, if you go one level deeper, you can see what is driving the rentals. In terms of commercial retail space, the business of selling just about anything is pretty much moribund. The ever higher rental prices are being driven by F&B outlets. If you look at any given mall, the amount of space dedicated to F&B is 30% to 50% more than what it was just 5 years ago. This demand is being driven by the chains and their high profit margins thanks to their armies of cheap FT.

Moving forward, the F&B chains like Sakae Sushi and Tung Lok have now gotten it into their head that they are strategic industries which are "too big to fail". They are busy making the headlines in our msm of catastrophic consequences for Singapore if FT numbers are cut and they go under.

Tend to disagree on the first point but agree on the second point. The wage figures quoted seem rather high for a waiter and reminiscent of the past. Acknowledge the split shift and the weekend stint but this characteristic of the F&B industry the world over. You seldom see a waiter past the age of 30 let alone 40 or 50 which is a local. Not so in the West and they too face the same working regime.

 

[laksaboy]

The wages in F&B are NOT artificially depressed.

Assuming a person works 4 hours a day during the weekday evenings and 8 hours on the weekends, that person can earn $1728 to $2160 per month as a waiter. This is a relatively attractive wage.

Assume that there is no difference between weekday and weekend pay rates, for simplifying calculations:


(4*5) + (8*2) = 20 + 16 = 36 hours per week.

144 hours per month.


$1728 / 144 hours: $12 per hour
$2160 / 144 hours: $15 per hour

LOL! That hourly wage for a waiter's job? The median hourly wage is $7 to $9.

You can talk about $12 to $15 per hour when a proper minimum wage law is implemented.
You can talk about 36 hours per week when real labour unions stand up to exploitative employers.

In PAP-run Singapore... neither is going to happen any time soon.

 

[aurvandil]

I am talking about getting Singaporeans to work. If you put up an ad for $8 an hour for evenings and weekends, you get lots of foreigners and hardly any Singaporeans. The Singaporeans that do take $8 an hour for evenings and weekends normally have issues. If you take them, high chance they will piss off customers, try to steal from you and/or quit within a week.

What restaurants are you referring to that offers these wages? I have more than 20 years experience in peesai FnB line, there is no difference in pay for busy areas like Orchard and non busy areas in peesai. Now current max for wait staff is 8 bucks or less an hour. Even for skilled experience cooks or chef who wants to work part time is about the same hourly rate.

You must have gotten Australia and peesai mixed up. There is no high wages for work at night or weekends. It is the same rate across the board. If you have any links of at least 10 places in peesai that offers more pay for night shift and weekends, please post here for all to see.

Whereas anybody here can go to gumtree and call up all the restaurants that are offering positions and asked for themselves how much the rate is. Even the casinos restaurants are paying less than 8 bucks an hour.

 

[aurvandil]

It is not a realistic assumption that there is no difference in pay between weekday 9 to 5 vs evenings vs weekends/public holidays.

Assume that there is no difference between weekday and weekend pay rates, for simplifying calculations:


(4*5) + (8*2) = 20 + 16 = 36 hours per week.


$1728 / 36 ho:

 

[batman1]

Most sinkee F&B bosses only want cheap,fresh & big.
KNNCCB to the Singapore bosses !!!!!!!!!!!