Ex-citizen's regret

[fishbuff]

..., Singapore is the best - it is democratic, .....

huh??? are u sure about that?

 

[scroobal]

When people grow old, they tend to find their roots. She has had 30 years of good life in OZ. There is no comparison between a 1st world and 3rd world country.

One must be ignorant if one can't tell one from the other.

In general, Maureen Pollard's words about Singapore has substance. Amongst the countries in South East Asia, Singapore is the best - it is democratic, has a higher standard of living, better medical care, quality of housing, freedom of religion, comparatively much less oppressive behaviour towards minorities, no drugs and some freedom of speech.

The failure of Maureen Pollard to adapt to her new country and hence her regrets in leaving Singapore is quite evident in her words: she migrated with her heart back in Singapore.

Therein lies a valuable lesson.

 

[IR123]

Reasonably so, compared to our neighbouring countries.

huh??? are u sure about that?

 

[IR123]

Not to the extent of regreting fundamental decisions like migration. Perhaps you confuse nostalgia with regrets.

If you focus on 1st world indicators, Singapore is comparable in almost every area except politics and freedom of expression. Even in politics, on paper, we have two thriving alternatives spanning decades. The lack of freedom of expression is localized to certain areas of politics and religion.

This is not a comparison between 1st and 3rd world countries. This is a comparison of home - is Singapore worth migrating from. Will there be regrets if you do so. The lesson is there will be, if you are not prepared to let go of Singapore - your friends, your roots.

The next lesson i realized is that there is no end to comparison. If you are happy, you stay. If you are unhappy, you migrate or you stay and make it a better place.

When people grow old, they tend to find their roots. She has had 30 years of good life in OZ. There is no comparison between a 1st world and 3rd world country.
One must be ignorant if one can't tell one from the other.

 

[IWC2006]

Reasonably so, compared to our neighbouring countries.

Spore is good for those who prefers to play it safe, when everything is predictable and leave it everything to the government. Sure, Spore is safe, has good infrastructure and everything seems to be so efficient; and backup by a infotech-heavy government. >90% of Sporeans will fit this category, and there is nothing wrong about it. Those who chose to leave, must ask themselves why they give up their heaven and leave for the so-called greener pasture.

 

[IR123]

I don't view it that way.

Every country has its drawbacks. There will always be factors which one will place a premium over others and such factors need not be related to Singapore, the government, the PAP, CPF, ERP, whatever. It can be human factors deeply personal to the individual.

Every country has its advantages. Of that, there is no need to elaborate.

Singapore has its vulnerabilities and these can only be ascertain if you examine the psyche of her people and her geographical situation. Singapore has its strengths and these strengths lie in her government, to a large extent one personality. It is doubtful that singapore has made progress these last 5 years.

Migration is a deeply personal issue. It is not a matter of heroics but a conscious decision, that once taken will not be reverted. Again this is a matter of temperament. Some takes such things lightly. Others treat it seriously.

Migration should not be regretted. It is often said that we do not regret the things we do but we regret the things we did not do. If ever we regret the act of migrating, it is possibly we jumped before we looked or we are forced into this act of migration by those we loved.

Spore is good for those who prefers to play it safe, when everything is predictable and leave it everything to the government. Sure, Spore is safe, has good infrastructure and everything seems to be so efficient; and backup by a infotech-heavy government. >90% of Sporeans will fit this category, and there is nothing wrong about it. Those who chose to leave, must ask themselves why they give up their heaven and leave for the so-called greener pasture.

 

[eatshitndie]

I don't view it that way.

Every country has its drawbacks. There will always be factors which one will place a premium over others and such factors need not be related to Singapore, the government, the PAP, CPF, ERP, whatever. It can be human factors deeply personal to the individual.

Every country has its advantages. Of that, there is no need to elaborate.

Singapore has its vulnerabilities and these can only be ascertain if you examine the psyche of her people and her geographical situation. Singapore has its strengths and these strengths lie in her government, to a large extent one personality. It is doubtful that singapore has made progress these last 5 years.

Migration is a deeply personal issue. It is not a matter of heroics but a conscious decision, that once taken will not be reverted. Again this is a matter of temperament. Some takes such things lightly. Others treat it seriously.

Migration should not be regretted. It is often said that we do not regret the things we do but we regret the things we did not do. If ever we regret the act of migrating, it is possibly we jumped before we looked or we are forced into this act of migration by those we loved.

it's all relative. sg is an excellent place for riff raffs. she's also a fantastic city for expats and wealthy foreign elites looking for some safe abode to make and hide riches. the gov goes all the way to make life comfortable for the top notches of societal strata - relaxation of entertainment restrictions, more drinking holes, more night spots, excellent facilities for meetings and conferences, cheap labor, world class airport, easy and convenient transit thru' airport, a lot of cabs and limousines for hire, and lastly and more importantly, easy access for jet set call girls to come and go. as a traveller, she's the best rest stop in south east asia, from getting batteries recharged and bones fully rested before the next leap to a poverty-stricken hellhole.

however, her goals of keeping ever-enlightened children of residents who go thru' the evolution of increasing their iq level with each succeeding generation will be lost on such an impersonal, identityless, machinistic yet prostituting pace. whenever her children evolve intellectually and progress with time and knowledge, they will most likely wish to leave in their youth for more intellectually challenging pursuits. and she cannot afford to lose this strata of children if she wishes to become sustainable over the long run.

 

[cass888]

You made a decision. Live with it for crying out loud. Why cry over spilt milk? You sound like you don't deserve either Australia or Singapore.

Feb 13, 2010

EX-CITIZEN'S REGRET
Missing Singapore

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THIRTY years ago, I left Singapore for Australia for personal reasons. Although I was not required to surrender my citizenship, I traded it in for my Central Provident Fund (CPF) contributions, as I wished to buy property in Australia.
I enjoyed the change for a few years but the novelty wore off. Why wasn't I any happier? I discovered the answer after my mother's recent death in Singapore. I was overcome with emotion when I met numerous former school friends, neighbours and relatives at her wake. It seemed the links had never been severed - only temporarily disconnected.
Possible reasons for not feeling happier after the shift have crystallised: nostalgia for the island republic and for family and friends. Worst of all, the realisation that my decision to relinquish my Singaporean citizenship was a colossal mistake.
To validate my feelings, I read papers by 'cross-cultural psychologists' on such issues as acculturation, age, personality, education, socio-economic status and cultural background.
My bouts of loneliness are valid. The loss of country, identity, family and friends can be tantamount to mourning the loss of a loved one.
When my mother was alive, my husband and I undertook the annual 'pilgrimage' to Singapore, and the first thing I missed when I returned was the animation Singapore offered. Not surprisingly, when I returned to Melbourne this time, I felt particularly miserable and displaced.
I dearly miss the exuberance Singapore offers. The lush green equatorial landscape and clean streets (sans discarded dirty mattresses and old carpets) beautify the island. Coffee shops and restaurants seem to be continuously feeding customers.
Singapore can boast an excellent work ethic. Reliable, hardworking and honest, Singaporeans don't take 'sickies'. Buses and trains run quietly and to schedule. Most people are friendly. The streets are relatively safe. Eating out is still cheap. Singaporeans enjoy a better standard of living. How I wish I had more foresight, rather than hindsight.
Housing is not an issue in Singapore. CPF contributions can be used to buy comfortable accommodation.
The Government is continually improving existing infrastructure: Flats are upgraded, new MRT stations are built and covered overhead bridges constructed - all for the convenience of Singaporeans.
Australia has my allegiance and loyalty, but I can't help feeling a Singaporean at heart.
Maureen Pollard (Ms)

 

[cass888]

Rubbish. It is the riff raff who are complaining about Singapore because they are losing out themselves.

it's all relative. sg is an excellent place for riff raffs. she's also a fantastic city for expats and wealthy foreign elites looking for some safe abode to make and hide riches. the gov goes all the way to make life comfortable for the top notches of societal strata - relaxation of entertainment restrictions, more drinking holes, more night spots, excellent facilities for meetings and conferences, cheap labor, world class airport, easy and convenient transit thru' airport, a lot of cabs and limousines for hire, and lastly and more importantly, easy access for jet set call girls to come and go. as a traveller, she's the best rest stop in south east asia, from getting batteries recharged and bones fully rested before the next leap to a poverty-stricken hellhole.

however, her goals of keeping ever-enlightened children of residents who go thru' the evolution of increasing their iq level with each succeeding generation will be lost on such an impersonal, identityless, machinistic yet prostituting pace. whenever her children evolve intellectually and progress with time and knowledge, they will most likely wish to leave in their youth for more intellectually challenging pursuits. and she cannot afford to lose this strata of children if she wishes to become sustainable over the long run.

 

[IWC2006]

I disagree. Spore is very much a country operates and dictates by the lky family, a lot of it's policies and system have both direct and indirect impact on it's citizens eg. Education, employment, retirement etc etc. I would say at least 70% of migration decisions are influenced by the spore system in many of them don't want to live their lives under a one party option. U must be living in a dark if u don't even aware the motivational factors of migration of Sporeans.

 

[littlefish]

I dearly miss the exuberance Singapore offers. The lush green equatorial landscape and clean streets (sans discarded dirty mattresses and old carpets) beautify the island. Coffee shops and restaurants seem to be continuously feeding customers.
Singapore can boast an excellent work ethic. Reliable, hardworking and honest, Singaporeans don't take 'sickies'. Buses and trains run quietly and to schedule. Most people are friendly. The streets are relatively safe. Eating out is still cheap. Singaporeans enjoy a better standard of living. How I wish I had more foresight, rather than hindsight.

...

Australia has my allegiance and loyalty, but I can't help feeling a Singaporean at heart.
Maureen Pollard (Ms)

She forgets that the lush green equatorial landscape (I seem to feel more like I am in a concrete jungle in most parts of SG, so I wonder where she got this idea) comes with the horrible weather as well. Unless she lives in air-conditioned comfort 24/7, the experience is like a living hell to many people.

Sgreans don't take sickies because they get punished severely if they do. If they are allowed to do so, they will be doing the same thing as the Ozzies. This is the rule by fear. Most Sgreans will also not take sickies to enjoy the lush equatorial landscape she talks about because it is nothing spectacular.

The "most people are friendly in SG" claim is real absurd. She probably can't speak English well enough for the Ozzies to understand her or she lacks self-confidence and a sense of self-worth. I can vouch that the level of consideration shown to me in NZ is something that would make me instantly suspicious if it happened in SG.

Eating out is no longer cheap in foodcourts and restaurant prices are quite on par with those in NZ. She might be singing a different tune if she is working in SG and earning SG$ (at her age, she can consider herself lucky if she is still working in a relatively good job).

Just a couple of observations:
1) If she dislikes Australia so much, what is preventing her from renouncing her Ozzie passport and reapplying for SG's one? Probably because she no longer has the $$$ to replace the CPF and needs to find work to support herself. Speaks volumes about how hard it is to survive in SG when you are old and unwanted.

2) If she misses SG so much, she can easily drop in for a visit frequently to indulge in her so called nostalgia. Why is she not doing this? Probably lack of $$$ again.

Conclusion: She simply couldn't hack it in Oz and does not have enough money to visit SG more often, hence her grouses. It has nothing to do with SG being a much better place than Oz. If she did not leave for Oz 30 years ago, I will bet you that she will still be a failure in SG (unless of course, she joins the PAP machinery) except that this time, she will be complaining about being stuck on a stinking island and being jobless. She has no foresight and her hindsight is seriously flawed.

 

[eatshitndie]

Rubbish. It is the riff raff who are complaining about Singapore because they are losing out themselves.

are you refering to yourself? i'm talking about low wage workers from 3rd world countries.

 

[IR123]

It is the tendency of almost all here to run down those who disagree and demonstrate your superiority by putting others down.

From one 3rd world country to a 1st world country - this is due to the effort of LKY, not the LKY family. The capabilities of the LKY family can be discussed. But the contributions of LKY cannot. His delivery was indisputable.

As for the motivational factors of migration, how is anyone to know what motivates others to migrate. You know what motivates you - the dislike of PAP. But how do you know what motivates others? No matter what enlightened age you are living in, what rumourmongering others give to you, you still cannot see into the motives of others. No one can.

My own feeling is that migration is a mixture of complex factors. Personal, economic and politics. But migration is always undertaken for a better world. So if you have migrated, be happy you have done so. If you are contemplating migration, make your decision. If you decided not to migrate, be happy you have decided. Whatever your decision, there is no need to enforce it on others.

More important for yourself, if you had migrated, why are you here lambasting the PAP when it is no longer a part of your life? Shouldn't you be out there contributing to your new country, making it prosperous, correcting its ills and in your small ways, make it a better country for yourself and your children?

I disagree. Spore is very much a country operates and dictates by the lky family, a lot of it's policies and system have both direct and indirect impact on it's citizens eg. Education, employment, retirement etc etc. I would say at least 70% of migration decisions are influenced by the spore system in many of them don't want to live their lives under a one party option. U must be living in a dark if u don't even aware the motivational factors of migration of Sporeans.

 

[IR123]

You have good points.

The question now is a comparison between the ills of Singapore and the ills of the country you intend to migrate.

it's all relative. ...

 

[littlefish]

More important for yourself, if you had migrated, why are you here lambasting the PAP when it is no longer a part of your life? Shouldn't you be out there contributing to your new country, making it prosperous, correcting its ills and in your small ways, make it a better country for yourself and your children?

I put it to you that as a tiny island with NS and single citizenship, SG is fast becoming a death trap (for many of those who are not contemplating migrating). I don't know about others but I post here because I see this danger and I want to warn SGreans not to just be engrossed with living from day to day but to think of the longer term future. By no means do I mean SG will not survive but the form of SG in the future will be nothing like what it is now. If SGreans continue to stick their heads in the sand, they will soon be citizens of a foreign country. How is that different from migrating?

But most of all, I post here because I feel sad that many talented SGreans leave the country and never return. It is alright to get overseas exposure but it is the PAP that caused many to leave permanently.

 

[eatshitndie]

You have good points.

The question now is a comparison between the ills of Singapore and the ills of the country you intend to migrate.

that's easy. how many who have emigrated out of sg for the proverbial greener pasture return to sg due to stickiness for sg? or more appropriately, what is the ratio of those who emigrated and those who returned? if it is 1 for 1, you're right. but the reality is a much higher ratio.

the origin of the thread has nothing to do with ills, but with fondness. your target country can be perfect, yet you can find no happiness in it. happiness and rootedness are connected to one's character and behavior, and have very little to do with how a country fares when compared to another. that's just superficial excuses showing symptoms of a flawed character or a troubled heart. a foreigner can be from a wealthy healthy rewarding country yet find happiness and belonging in a crappy place such as manila, bali, bangcock, phuckit or haadyai.

what is important to me or to a foreign investor is the sustainability of sg as a place of exploitation of capital and labor, her value chain potential and how the sg gov can help me maximize the exploitation. if i am an investor of low to high tech manufacturing, i would be delighted - tax breaks coupled with low industrial rent and cheap hungry labor willing to do more for much less. i may keep high tech manufacturing in sg and move low tech factories to china or vietnam if cost were to creep up. but if i were to exploit the system and benefits for high end innovative and creative endeavors, i would think twice. despite all the hooplah about sg getting investments in high tech, bio tech, and resort tech, she's still a 2nd rate hub. the opportunity to go 1st rate is over (she had the chance before 97, but it's over) with the acute addiction to cheap labor from the surrounding region to feed uninspired industries. the bureaucracy to manage this explosive growth in population has grown too large and too well fed to be taken down. just like ns, it's a monstrosity feeding on itself and feeling self important and self worthy.

i don't find the ironically well educated youths of sg inspiring anymore, nor are they dreaming about new inventions and conquering the world with their ideas. but they can if cultivated correctly. the batches of trainees and interns who land here in the bay area each year for training assignments with high tech crucibles which originate here have too much on their minds to plan for a brighter, more independent, more creative future - money, place to stay, transportation, safety, and very importantly, are they gonna get work or keep their jobs back home and how much will they get when they are done with training? dreams include hdb ownership and owning a car, not how to destroy apple, replace google or overtake facebook? the allowance that they get here as a trainee or intern is far higher than what they will get at home. do you think there is any incentive for them to stay motivated working in sg when they return home? i won't want my complex design and engineering to be done there. they will screw me up with their unmotivated attitude.

 

[Aussie Prick]

Feb 13, 2010

EX-CITIZEN'S REGRET
Missing Singapore

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THIRTY years ago, I left Singapore for Australia for personal reasons. Although I was not required to surrender my citizenship, I traded it in for my Central Provident Fund (CPF) contributions, as I wished to buy property in Australia.
I enjoyed the change for a few years but the novelty wore off. Why wasn't I any happier? I discovered the answer after my mother's recent death in Singapore. I was overcome with emotion when I met numerous former school friends, neighbours and relatives at her wake. It seemed the links had never been severed - only temporarily disconnected.
Possible reasons for not feeling happier after the shift have crystallised: nostalgia for the island republic and for family and friends. Worst of all, the realisation that my decision to relinquish my Singaporean citizenship was a colossal mistake.
To validate my feelings, I read papers by 'cross-cultural psychologists' on such issues as acculturation, age, personality, education, socio-economic status and cultural background.
My bouts of loneliness are valid. The loss of country, identity, family and friends can be tantamount to mourning the loss of a loved one.
When my mother was alive, my husband and I undertook the annual 'pilgrimage' to Singapore, and the first thing I missed when I returned was the animation Singapore offered. Not surprisingly, when I returned to Melbourne this time, I felt particularly miserable and displaced.
I dearly miss the exuberance Singapore offers. The lush green equatorial landscape and clean streets (sans discarded dirty mattresses and old carpets) beautify the island. Coffee shops and restaurants seem to be continuously feeding customers.
Singapore can boast an excellent work ethic. Reliable, hardworking and honest, Singaporeans don't take 'sickies'. Buses and trains run quietly and to schedule. Most people are friendly. The streets are relatively safe. Eating out is still cheap. Singaporeans enjoy a better standard of living. How I wish I had more foresight, rather than hindsight.
Housing is not an issue in Singapore. CPF contributions can be used to buy comfortable accommodation.
The Government is continually improving existing infrastructure: Flats are upgraded, new MRT stations are built and covered overhead bridges constructed - all for the convenience of Singaporeans.
Australia has my allegiance and loyalty, but I can't help feeling a Singaporean at heart.
Maureen Pollard (Ms)

I dont quite understand what is bothering Maureen. Cant Maureen enjoy the best of both worlds? If she misses Singapore so much, cant she just go back to Singapore under the many passes Singapore now offers? She can become a resident again in Singapore - quite easily - and then when she gets sick and needs medical care she can rely on the social safety net of Australia and not pay current SG medical costs - plus isnt western medical care superior to Singapore? Anyone here think Singapore offers a better social safety net in terms of medical, housing, food subsidies - than Western nations such as Australia, Canada, the UK and the US?

I am VERY confident that should Maureen return to Singapore and spend two years there OR gets sick she will MISS her freedom, western lifestyle, and everything is is/has taken for granted in Australia. Singapore might have a nice infrastructre but then again maybe Maureen should visit one of our new gleaming skyscrapers only to find the receptionist is eating durian and cant be bothered with customer service - which is nonexistant in today's Singapore. Wait until Maureen finds out its all a nice shiny facade.

Instead of complaining about it - why not see how lucky Maureen actually is - or has the Singaporean in Maureen never really left in the first place? Funny how complaining has become a Singaporean cultural norm!!!!

 

[wrcboi]

A country can have the best in everything and be the best but if the people cant afford it or there is no jobs for the people.....whats the bloody use??

 

[Charlie9]

A country can have the best in everything and be the best but if the people cant afford it or there is no jobs for the people.....whats the bloody use??

Well said.

 

[IWC2006]

It is the tendency of almost all here to run down those who disagree and demonstrate your superiority by putting others down.

From one 3rd world country to a 1st world country - this is due to the effort of LKY, not the LKY family. The capabilities of the LKY family can be discussed. But the contributions of LKY cannot. His delivery was indisputable.]

Thats your personal view. Yes the old man got the vision and executed well, but without the good loyal citizens nothing will be delivered.

As for the motivational factors of migration, how is anyone to know what motivates others to migrate. You know what motivates you - the dislike of PAP. But how do you know what motivates others? No matter what enlightened age you are living in, what rumourmongering others give to you, you still cannot see into the motives of others. No one can.

If you read carefully, i didn't say people left the country because of PAP, but its the system and policies set by PAP which have a cascading effect on people and their children. It could be both push and pull factors, but neverthless everyone is motivated by something to quit the country, can you safety say its not gov related?




My own feeling is that migration is a mixture of complex factors. Personal, economic and politics. But migration is always undertaken for a better world. So if you have migrated, be happy you have done so. If you are contemplating migration, make your decision. If you decided not to migrate, be happy you have decided. Whatever your decision, there is no need to enforce it on others.

Who enforces who? As you said migration is a personal decision, there is no need to go around brainwash others, as I said, >90% of Sporeans are not suitable to migrate under the structured system they are so used to in Spore.




More important for yourself, if you had migrated, why are you here lambasting the PAP when it is no longer a part of your life? Shouldn't you be out there contributing to your new country, making it prosperous, correcting its ills and in your small ways, make it a better country for yourself and your children?

Haha, migration doesn't mean you have to offload your roots totally , I haven't give up my passport yet so I'm still very much a Sporean, especially since my family is still living there. However, I have the opportunity to look at Spore from a external view, and my views still have not changed - it still a in a sad state and zombies running on the streets hoping one day the gov will provide them with a better life. People are leasing overpriced prison cell flats thinking they own it. why would I need to do anything in my new country when itself its already prosperous, and have heaps of natural resources and land and a good public system that people can look forward to retire and grow old gracefully? Its you that you have to start thinking for yourself, my friend. :-)