Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

[neddy]

What I have known and seen are Singaporeans who have obtained PR overseas and still keep their pink IC and enter/exit with Singapore passport at overseas port of entry. I suppose if these S'poreans eventually pick up a Canadian pp, nobody would know, until they renew their S'pore pp and make the declaration that they hold a foreign pp. They would enter/exit Canada with their Canadian pp and enter/exit S'pore with S'pore pp.

Are you one of them?

Not sure about Canadians, but for Australian PRs holders turned citizens, I found this loophole.

The main applicant of the OZ PR will have his PR visa cancelled after attaining citizenship. So any airlines in Singapore will not allow him/her to travel back to OZ on a Singapore passport with the OZ PR visa attached, even if it is not expired.

I also observe that the dependents of the main applicant who are issued the PR visas (with the condition that the dependents cannot initiate their first travel into OZ without the main applicant), their PR visas are not cancelled, even after they attain OZ citizenships.

OZ system screw up? These PR visas expires on their original expiry date, not when the citizenship is obtained.

 

[eatshitndie]

if you carry two passports including an sg passport, do not show or use your foreign passport at the immigration checkpoint in sg ports of entry. there is a skillfully written piece of statute which i have cited on several occasions that will cause you to run foul of the law. i have known of at least 3 cases where all 3 foreign passport holders had to surrender their sg passports upon demand, had their sg citizenship revoked, and had to face sgd1000 fines or 6 months in jail. due to further pleas and mitigation, they were not fined but they had to sign "waivers" or otherwise known as kissing goodbye to their sg citizenship.

 

[LordElrond]

Until the 90s, the Govt actually exempted many of the 2nd generation PRs nearly all Malaysians from NS liability. The reason was for national security. It was common practice then for Malaysian PRs residing in Singapore to have their parents and females siblings to convert to Singapore citizenship while the males to retain their PR to avoid NS.

This trend is now seen among PRC and Indian families who take up PR for the whole family but their sons remain on dependency pass. When they become adults they then apply to remain under various others visas such as student or employment or move to other countries.

It is better NOT to let future rapists get access to weapons.

 

[LordElrond]

Why are people finding ways to keep > 1 citizenship? Is this a Sinkie trait??

 

[scroobal]

Charlie is right. There has never been any legislation that prohibits holding dual or multiple citizenship. Most Singaporeans who migrate usually withdraw their CPF and to do so requires giving up the Singapore citizenship. Thus people who hold both are few but they are there. The usual practice is use the passport of the country that you entering or leaving.

There is however the Immigration Act that requires a Singaporean to produce his "valid" Singapore passport when entering or leaving Singapore. I am aware that this is not followed.

Some years back I think it was GCT who revealed that the cabinet was looking into formalising dual citizenship as many countries were moving towards this direction.

I think there isnt too. But I have not come across any Singaporean I know flashing a canadian passport. What I have known and seen are Singaporeans who have obtained PR overseas and still keep their pink IC and enter/exit with Singapore passport at overseas port of entry. I suppose if these S'poreans eventually pick up a Canadian pp, nobody would know, until they renew their S'pore pp and make the declaration that they hold a foreign pp. They would enter/exit Canada with their Canadian pp and enter/exit S'pore with S'pore pp.

Are you one of them?

 

[winnipegjets]

Some years back I think it was GCT who revealed that the cabinet was looking into formalising dual citizenship as many countries were moving towards this direction.

Isn't his daughter a British citizen?

 

[Charlie99]

Isn't his daughter a British citizen?

May be GCT's daughter has dual citizenship.

 

[neddy]

Why are people finding ways to keep > 1 citizenship? Is this a Sinkie trait??

No. It is a global trend. Just that many Singaporeans are not aware of this and still very kampong-brained over the idea of multiple nationalities.

I often hear of people moving from one country to another for work, love, marriage, downsize, seachange etc.

In Europe, the schengen agreement is a good example of borderless travel.

 

[scroobal]

You have a track record of scare mongering and giving erroneous Details. In Delphi you claimed that dual citizenship is illegal but cannot find e legislation to support the claim.

The Immigration Act does require Singapore citizens to produce their valid passport for entry and exit but i know of people holding dual citizenship travelling using both documents with no issues. You even once claimed that your friend who became a French citizen whilst holding on to singapore was arrested on entry. Now you know 3 people people. How you are the only one who has all these bad cases seems odd. The Singapore Govt cannot force anyone to revoke their foreign citizenship. It not in their power to do so. They also cannot deport a Singaporean who holds Singapore citizenship. There are series of steps to follow including involving a Minister to revoke a citizenship and its takes months.

I know of cases where Singaporeans who have held dual citizenship returning to Singapore using their foreign passport and then staying back to work here. After a few months, ICA writes to them asking in polite terms if they are would like to decide which citizenship to give up.

People who contribute to this thread are not proposing cheating or making false declarations. The govt has the power to revoke citizenship and they have even done it to people who hold no other citizenship. I am sure this Govt realises that people who dual or multiple citizenship a not your ordinary joe blow but people with means, qualifications and may return to contribute.

I suggest that you stick to telling the ladies in this forum and old foggies about your cruises, cuisines, health diet, wines, travel tips and offer your marina berth.

if you carry two passports including an sg passport, do not show or use your foreign passport at the immigration checkpoint in sg ports of entry. there is a skillfully written piece of statute which i have cited on several occasions that will cause you to run foul of the law. i have known of at least 3 cases where all 3 foreign passport holders had to surrender their sg passports upon demand, had their sg citizenship revoked, and had to face sgd1000 fines or 6 months in jail. due to further pleas and mitigation, they were not fined but they had to sign "waivers" or otherwise known as kissing goodbye to their sg citizenship.

 

[scroobal]

No idea. Probably PR in UK as the husband is a citizen so no advantage. Also politically better. Similar to Cabinet Minister Yaacob wife is not a Singaporean but an US citizen. JBJ's is the same and thats why both sons could go to UWC despite holding Singapore citizenship.

As you know, there are 2 worlds in every society - the elites and the rest. .

Isn't his daughter a British citizen?

 

[kingrant]

I kinow that for canadian PR holders, if the PR card is under renewal and by the time you leave Canada, yr old one is already expired and you havent got yr new one yet, you will have to go to the canadian consulate to obtain a travel document. This is accepted for travel by airlines etc.

I suppose it would be reasonable, if you are trying to get back to Canada to pick up your citizenship, that they would allow you to obtain a temporary travel document since the PR card will have expired by then (by due fact that the status is changed). So in effect, the same situation if your PR Card expired while waiting for yr new one. It is not unreasonable to expect them to give one a grace period to pick up the nec documents, esp when one is outside the country.
I mean, how can one expect to be able to be in possession of a passport in time to travel back when one has not got their citizenship?

Not sure about Canadians, but for Australian PRs holders turned citizens, I found this loophole.

The main applicant of the OZ PR will have his PR visa cancelled after attaining citizenship. So any airlines in Singapore will not allow him/her to travel back to OZ on a Singapore passport with the OZ PR visa attached, even if it is not expired.

I also observe that the dependents of the main applicant who are issued the PR visas (with the condition that the dependents cannot initiate their first travel into OZ without the main applicant), their PR visas are not cancelled, even after they attain OZ citizenships.

OZ system screw up? These PR visas expires on their original expiry date, not when the citizenship is obtained.

 

[Monkey2000]

JBJ's is the same and thats why both sons could go to UWC despite holding Singapore citizenship.

As you know, there are 2 worlds in every society - the elites and the rest. .

Elites or the rich seem to fare better and happier too.

 

[eatshitndie]

You have a track record of scare mongering and giving erroneous Details. In Delphi you claimed that dual citizenship is illegal but cannot find e legislation to support the claim.

chapter 133, part II, 5A (1) (a). person entering or leaving sg to produce passport, etc.

"if the person is a citizen of singapore (whether or not the person is also the national of a country other than singapore) - [the person must produce] the person's singapore passport that is valid, and any other prescribed evidence of the person's identity and singapore citizenship;"

[the person must produce] is inserted by me as a reference to the above section title. of course the singapore passport has to be valid, duh. otherwise, it's illegal to use an invalid passport to pass off as a valid one.

the important clauses are that singapore citizens even though they may be citizens of another country must produce a singapore passport of documentary proof of sg citizenship upon entry and leaving sg. otherwise....

"(3) any person who enters and leaves sg in contravention of subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both."

 

[eatshitndie]

it's also a known fact that for those with perceived dual citizenship records in the ica who do not renounce their foreign citizenship by age 22, their sg citizenship is in danger of being revoked. there are quite a few cases of sg persons who become "stateless" due to this rule. i have yet to find language in the statutes to support this ruling but buried in the chapters is language skillfully crafted to give discretionary powers of waivers, enforcement and revocation to immigration checkpoint officers.

 

[neddy]

No. It is a global trend. Just that many Singaporeans are not aware of this and still very kampong-brained over the idea of multiple nationalities.

I often hear of people moving from one country to another for work, love, marriage, downsize, seachange etc.

In Europe, the schengen agreement is a good example of borderless travel.

Example of how a person take advantage of borderless travel for career advancement.

This beauty with brain, Lilly.

She is a Chinese-Dutch who studied in Foek Yam Chinese School*, Utrecht and finish her university in Hilversum.

Later did her MBA in NTU Singapore.

She left Singapore and participated in Miss HongKong contest and was awarded a contract by TVB to work in both Hongkong & Shanghai.

Later, she worked under a KPMG traineeship.

She left and set up China Desk as a Lead in Capgemini

Along the way, she wrote her thesis with the subject "Can financial analyst read the Hand of Mergers & Acquisitions?"

From Capgemini Consulting, she was awarded with the Knowledge Award, with her publication with Nyenrode: China Focus Report - 'Focus & Persevere'.

Worked in Vancouver for more than a year

Now back in Rotterdam as a Manager in M&A Transaction Services at Ernst & Young

and still doing her CFA.

* last batch to finish education in this migrant school before school closed down by the Dutch govt for not teaching to Dutch standard. (Traditional Chinese type of education is no no)

 

[OneGoodSon]

I'm one of these NS defaulters. Left at the age of 17 for the US. Now I'm 45 years old. When my entire family decided to leave for the US, there's no way I'm going to be stuck by myself alone, so I had to move together with them. My parents knew that Mindef would not let me leave without serving NS, but family unity comes first, so someone had to pay the price.

OneGoodSon

 

[OneGoodSon]

My questions are:
1) Can I renounce my Singapore citizenship now that I'm over 40 years old? It seems the Enlistment Act does not apply anymore after 40. If so, is there any benefit to doing that.
2) Should I contact Mindef or CMPB? Could they tell me what the exact penalty is before I ever land in Singapore? Incarceration is not an option for me, as I have to provide for my kids.
3) Can there be other forms of amends besides incarceration? Community service, etc.

OneGoodSon

 

[evian]

My questions are:
1) Can I renounce my Singapore citizenship now that I'm over 40 years old? It seems the Enlistment Act does not apply anymore after 40. If so, is there any benefit to doing that.
2) Should I contact Mindef or CMPB? Could they tell me what the exact penalty is before I ever land in Singapore? Incarceration is not an option for me, as I have to provide for my kids.
3) Can there be other forms of amends besides incarceration? Community service, etc.

OneGoodSon

Unfortunately, I don't see how you will be allowed back into SG unless you accept Prison time and a hefty fine. As has been mentioned here many times, the Govt/Mindef takes a very strong stance against NS defaulters. It's better for you to arrange to meet your family and friends in JB.

 

[neddy]

Unfortunately, I don't see how you will be allowed back into SG unless you accept Prison time and a hefty fine. As has been mentioned here many times, the Govt/Mindef takes a very strong stance against NS defaulters. It's better for you to arrange to meet your family and friends in JB.

I just wonder, what if OneGoodSon has a good son who offer to do NS and return to Singapore as its citizen, will his father, OneGoodSon, be given some amnesty and a token sentence?

If we can address the root of what irk the Singapore govt into giving such a harsh punishment for NS defaulter, which in this case is due to the ignorance of a opaque law, which fewer know how it works.

 

[Anglosin]

Hi, I hv 2 sons, SG PRs & US citizens earmarked for US military so NS not desirable

Mum dad & 12yr old live in SG

15 yr old @ boarding sch but already app NRIC (). Was told to renounce his PR now then @ 21, if he wants back can say parents renounced against will and that he's ok to do NS if allowed back

For 12yr old, should I write MINDEF/apply exit permit? Enough to send him away to boarding sch before 13, or does whole family need to leave SG?

Any help grately appreciated