Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

[Steggles]

1) Your son is well within the cut-off age. It is used to 11 and now 12/13 (this has been a moving target)
.

Am applying for Oz PR and engaged a MARA registered agent.

Son has just turned 9 and passport will expire next Aug. Need to renew this or next year. Ok to do at this point in time?

Should he complete PSLE (12+ then) and then leave well he's 13? Understand that IC is now only issued at age 15?

Much thanks.

 

[LamPaLia]

Thanks Scroobal

we are officially US PRs since Aug 11,2012.... i will follow what you proposed...

The forummers and I are happy to help wherever we can and no need to worry about repeating anything.

1) Your son is well within the cut-off age. It is used to 11 and now 12/13 (this has been a moving target)
2) Send an email to CMPB, Mindef when you get your green card and tell them the following
- when you left and that your family have migrated to the US
- they will need a copy of your green card and the passport page showing date of entry to the US / date of green card
- ask all the questions that you need.
- provide your address and contact details as the replies are always in the mail except
3) exit permit is required when your son reaches 13 years of age. Since you provided the contact details they will notify you as reminder
4) the exit permit will allow your son to remain outside until the time for NS registration which is 16.5. Again reminder will be sent
5) No need to provide bond. Some clerk will sometimes might get it wrong but for migrants there is no bond.
6) In the meantime, do not do the following
- renew his passport
- apply for NRIC
- enroll for school in Singapore even if the parents have been posted by the company here etc
- in essence he cannot enjoy the privileges of this state
7) At 16,5, register online for NS, they will send you a form and they will now give your son deferment until the age of 21.
8) By this time, I suppose you guys will be US citizens. Your son is now a dual citizen and no issues as it not illegal.
9) He still cannot renounce his citizenship until he reaches age 21
10) At 21, Mindef will send reminder about 2 month before his 21 birthday and ask him to decide if he wants to keep his Singapore citizenship and if so he must turn up for NS. Or else apply to renounce. If he choses the latter, Mindef will provide contact details on who contact in ICA to renounce, Send email to that person and they will send the relevant forms which is quite tedious to fill. ICA will take 3 months to give the renounciation letter which must then be furnished to Mindef
11) During all these years, he can visit Singapore with no issues.

There is gap between the expired Singapore passport and getting the US passport after naturalisation. Do no renew the Singapore passport. Ask your relatives to fly to the US or a nearby country to meet. For family emergencies, Green card holders can apply to the US authorities for a travel paper which are temporary which are used for such purposes and for those who are stateless.

Enjoy your new life in a great new world. Very best to the family and you.

 

[scroobal]

Well done bro. Your kids will be eternally grateful for what you have done. The hardest part has been done. The World is truly your oyster. Congrats.

Thanks Scroobal

we are officially US PRs since Aug 11,2012.... i will follow what you proposed...

 

[LamPaLia]

Hi Scroobal i saw this in FB... is this even true? can the govt do that.. even if i was born in sgp?

Singapore is the only country in the world which allows the government to revoke a Singapore citizen by birth of his/her citizenship for the sole reason that he/she has been absent from Singapore for more than 10 years.

 

[koala88]

Hi Scroobal i saw this in FB... is this even true? can the govt do that.. even if i was born in sgp?

Recently they passed a law so that people like Tan Wah Piow are no longer citizen of SG.

 

[koala88]

we are officially US PRs since Aug 11,2012...

Lots of brothers here wish they are in your shoe. Good for you and your family!!

 

[Stan2012]

My son was born in Sp. Left when he was 2 mth. He has dual citizenship.Returned to Sp for 3 yrs- attended intnl school and left b4 11yo.Applied for NS deferment pending renunciation of citizenship at 21.CMPB rejected application & my appeal.He has to serve NS before renouncing citizenship!We are not returning to Spore to live.Is it because I am still S'porean that they rejected our application?Won't be renewing his Sp passport & not getting his IC.Any suggestions greatly appreciated.Many thanks!

 

[Emerald]

My son is like your son! And he did not even benefited anything from Singapore. He still has to serve NS and then decide on his citizenship. The only way is for you to give up yr citizenship and MINDEF might consider it family migration! there is no way out! Please do it fast to renounce your citizenship (painful). You do not want your son to be a defaulter or else he will never be able step foot in Singapore. Unless he is some day rich and famous and the government see $$$$. Take care.

 

[Stan2012]

I don't know why the govt would want to spend all that money and resources to put him through NS when he will renounce his citizenship soon after he finishes NS! Sounds crazy to me. Emerald, did you have to renounce your citizenship? Thanks for replying btw!

 

[LamPaLia]

they really are useless folks... the govt i meant

 

[Emerald]

As they saying goes. "Do it their way or take the highway." But lets face it, Singapore won't Singapore today and NS has played a role in the regional stability. Good luck.

 

[scroobal]

Sorry, just saw this thread.

Yes, it was called the Tan Wah Piow act by many as the intended target was TWP and a few others. Enacted when Jayakumar I think was the MHA Minister.

I think it has been repealed. Because my Singaporeans are now residing overseas due to globalisation. Quite a silly and vindictive law.

Hi Scroobal i saw this in FB... is this even true? can the govt do that.. even if i was born in sgp?

 

[scroobal]

Stan

Is your wife also a Singaporean?

My son was born in Sp. Left when he was 2 mth. He has dual citizenship.Returned to Sp for 3 yrs- attended intnl school and left b4 11yo.Applied for NS deferment pending renunciation of citizenship at 21.CMPB rejected application & my appeal.He has to serve NS before renouncing citizenship!We are not returning to Spore to live.Is it because I am still S'porean that they rejected our application?Won't be renewing his Sp passport & not getting his IC.Any suggestions greatly appreciated.Many thanks!

 

[scroobal]

Emerald is right. They had a lot of rich towkays in the past that sent their sons overseas to avoid NS. They have been consistent in this respect.

The issue is not waste of resources but to stop people having their cake and eating it.

I don't know why the govt would want to spend all that money and resources to put him through NS when he will renounce his citizenship soon after he finishes NS! Sounds crazy to me. Emerald, did you have to renounce your citizenship? Thanks for replying btw!

 

[Emerald]

There is no logic and there is no fairness. Funny thing is that for PRs they have to serve NS and but are not force to give up their PR. Double standards. Going to meet my MP to discuss this issue.

Money and resources is nothing to SAF. Most of them end up as drivers or admin.

Since my son is serving NS, I did not thrown in my pink IC.

 

[LamPaLia]

anyway... i did a little check to see my status in the US here... :P

i bought a tatical rifle.. and FBI background check cleared in 30 mins... and i was out of the store with the rifle and 100 rounds in my pocket.. :P

 

[evian]

My son was born in Sp. Left when he was 2 mth. He has dual citizenship.Returned to Sp for 3 yrs- attended intnl school and left b4 11yo.Applied for NS deferment pending renunciation of citizenship at 21.CMPB rejected application & my appeal.He has to serve NS before renouncing citizenship!We are not returning to Spore to live.Is it because I am still S'porean that they rejected our application?Won't be renewing his Sp passport & not getting his IC.Any suggestions greatly appreciated.Many thanks!

As Mindef have already ruled on your application and appeal, it would be very hard for your son to avoid NS without being labelled a defaulter. Not renewing his Passport/IC will make no difference to them as his "life history" will already be in their database. I also do not think they rejected your request for NS deferment based on the fact that you are still a Singaporean. All (male) 2nd generation PRs have NS liability and some my have not even stepped into the country since kindergarden.
My suggestion (as a last resort) is to raise this with your MP. Explain to them the circumstances of your son's case and your reasons why he should get NS deferment, e.g his lack of time spent in Singapore, family migration etc.. They are generally sympathetic to such causes and may appeal to Mindef on your behalf if they think you have a case.

If all else fails, your son has 2 choices:

1) Serve his NS and then let him decide on his citizenship status. (there is really no loss on his part should he decide to keep his Singapore citizenship and his current one).
2) Default on NS. I'm sure you already know the ramifications of this course of action.

Sorry I cannot be more helpful, but when it comes down to NS policy, the government only see black or white and not varying shades of grey.

Good Luck.

 

[evian]

Sorry, just saw this thread.

Yes, it was called the Tan Wah Piow act by many as the intended target was TWP and a few others. Enacted when Jayakumar I think was the MHA Minister.

I think it has been repealed. Because my Singaporeans are now residing overseas due to globalisation. Quite a silly and vindictive law.

Indeed, if the government want True Blue Sinkie talent to return home after working in New York, London, Hong Kong, Sydney etc, this will have the reverse effect.

 

[watchman8]

As Mindef have already ruled on your application and appeal, it would be very hard for your son to avoid NS without being labelled a defaulter. Not renewing his Passport/IC will make no difference to them as his "life history" will already be in their database. I also do not think they rejected your request for NS deferment based on the fact that you are still a Singaporean. All (male) 2nd generation PRs have NS liability and some my have not even stepped into the country since kindergarden.

If this is the case, then many 2nd generation PRs are going to be on the wanted list.

How sure are you that this is the actual situation, ie no way to escape once the birth cert is issued?

 

[evian]

If this is the case, then many 2nd generation PRs are going to be on the wanted list.

How sure are you that this is the actual situation, ie no way to escape once the birth cert is issued?

Apparently there is a scenario (to which I think Scroobal has alluded) where if the child has spent the majority of his time outside of Singapore before the age of 12 e.g. family migration, these would be mitigating factors towards getting NS exemption/deferment. Personally, I have not come across such a case but one thing that I am certain of is that Singapore citizens will have a harder case arguing for NS exemption/deferment than a PR.

The 'get out' clause for 2nd generation PRs (who wish to avoid NS) is that they will lose their PR rights and privileges but may still remain in the country as an employment pass holder. Not an ideal scenario for them but better than leaving Singapore. A citizen doesn't have this option.