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Doping - Swimming Sensation?

When Landis made that unbelievable solo ride towards regaining the yellow jersey way back in 2006, I was pretty sure the syringes had been out the day before.

This unbelievable swim has the same odour.

Only time will tell.

Armstrong had reasons to dope... If he had ridden clean, he'd probably have been the only one in the peloton to so. He needed drugs to even out the odds.

Landis's ride can't hold a candle to Dopestrong's supernatural Sestriere climb in 1999:

[video=youtube;HavGf-xTS_4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HavGf-xTS_4[/video]

And I wouldn't call blitzing the field for 7 TDFs in a row 'evening out the odds'.
 
Landis's ride can't hold a candle to Dopestrong's supernatural Sestriere climb in 1999:

And I wouldn't call blitzing the field for 7 TDFs in a row 'evening out the odds'.

The Sestriere climb was 20 minutes of effort.

Landis, on the other hand, rode solo off the front of the peloton, caught the break of about 12 riders, rode through the break and dropped all of them too except one who clung onto his wheel for about 30 km until he could hold on no longer and was dropped when the road kicked upwards. This guy was none other than Patrick Sinkewitz who was doped to the eyeballs himself. I estimate Landis rode more than 120 kms on at a pace higher than a peloton of 160 riders with T-Mobile leading the charge with Serhiy Honchar.. guess who he is... another doper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serhiy_Honchar

At one point, Landis gained 11 minutes on the Peloton. Even a break of 15 riders have difficulty getting that far off the front and that's with a bunch of guys who are no longer in contention. For a GC contender to achieve that has to be something "special".

Doping alone won't win you 7 TDFs. Lance Armstrong had fantastic mental strength which is what the other dopers like Ullrich, Basso, Heras, Hamilton, Chicken legs etc lacked.
 
Sorry, meant to show this shorter clip:

[video=youtube;oiCIJ2JewPE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiCIJ2JewPE[/video]
 
And what about Dopestrong giving the equally doped-to-the-gills Ullrich 'THE LOOK' before showing him the middle finger by way of a superhuman breakaway in the 2001 Alpe D'Huez climb:

[video=youtube;GHJErrp4eOw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHJErrp4eOw[/video]
 
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If Ye Shiwen had doped and it's systemic, why only enter her in 2 races and we do not see any other Chinese swimmers winning Gold, besides Sun Yang, and he wins only 1 Gold.

If it's a dope regime, then it's a major failure and stupidity. But I doubt China is that stupid nowadays to have systemic doping regime, and you guys keep saying China is communist, but if you're key into China's progress, it's now calling itself socialist politically and capitalist commercially.

Look at the women's synchronized diving. Wu Minxia pair up with 3 different partners over 3 different Olympics and still outclass all in the field with big margin. That shows the success of the training system.

Look at Table Tennis, total dominance over 16 Olympics years.

Look at Gymnastics, total dominance over 3 Olympics - Sydney, Beijing & London (yet to see. lol).

If China is on dope, you'll see Liu Xiang breaking his own world record over the years, but this is not the case.

If China is on dope, you'll witness a flourish of golds from its athletics team, but I doubt so this will happen.

Look at Usain Bolt in Bejing. After winning his 100m, he was pouring perspiration for a whole 15 mins of celebration. This is a clear sign of steriods taking, as one sweat like shit with steroids. After Beijing, he lowered his world record in the World Championship. This Jamaican stinks of doping, but no one whisper that, but frankly, 9.58s for 100m is humanly UNBELIEVABLE.
 
maybe the real reason


qopjyuc6.jpg
 
Some say Ye Shiwen, at 16 years old, comes from nowhere, but this is bull-shit. Ye Shiwen was already in the scene in the World Championship and she already shown she can win at incredible times. It's just the dumb competition and commentators that're not cued in.

Ruta Meilutyte of Lithuania, when she claims Olympic gold medal for Lithuania in 100m breaststroke, she is 15 years old and no one knows about her prowess, until this Olympics. Why no one suspect her? She has no record of winning in any major competition.

If anyone wish to hold up the dope card, then it should apply for Ruta Meilutye instead of Ye Shiwen.

All this stupid talk about Ye's first 300m being normal and the last 100m being unbelievable. As if it's cast in stone that one must swim faster in the beginning and slow down in the end. C'mon, this is a MEDLEY and you swim to your strength.

Ryan Lochte is JUST HYPE. Look, he can't even win Agnel Yannick of France, and Agnel's last leg of the 100m Relay is UNBELIEVABLE, when he whacked Ryan Lochte to win France the Gold.

And then Agnel Yannick came back the next day to win Gold in the 200m Freestyle. In that race, Ryan Lochte came in 4th.

So, all this comparison with Ryan Lochte's last lap and 50m split times with Ye Shiwen is just simply moronic hype. Ryan Lochte and Michael Phelps are HISTORY in London Olympics. Wake up and smell the roses, people. The New Olympics World Order is taking shape in swimming and whether you like it or not, China rules in London Olympics.
 
You don't seem to understand how this works. People and states that are involved in doping have extensive programmes on when to dope, where to dope, how to dope to avoid a positive test. There are new classes of drugs that do not show up or they use masking agents.

People like Lance Armstrong are known to be involved because of the people they meet in ridiculous locations. These people are not his pastor or his marriage counsellor.

They could not touch the East Germans until the regime fell and records revealed how advanced the doping programme.

Ye Shiwen made a mistake in her last lap. I think she was excited amd for got what the plan was.

Remember Ma's army and how mysteriously they vanished.



All medalist will need to take urine test .
 
Seriously, I really hope that for those who have never being involved in any competitive sports, to please keep quiet and stop talking nonsense. To win, it's both physical, and mental. Besides, to be a world champion, it takes talent. Immense talent. But in the end, it's all mental and lots of practice, practice, practice and you need funds and proper coaching. In a nutshell, you need a healthy environment with government support for a country to produce world champions and corporate sponsorships too. That's why China has sent its swimmers to be trained overseas. But for table tennis, gymnastics and diving, it is exporting its coaches overseas, and these countries are improving, thanks to the coaching.
 
Based on your premise then Phelps could very well be helped by some super undetectable drug concocted over in the US where team sports (NFL, MLB, NBA, Tennis) are multi billion dollar industries, owed by billionaires, where biotech, big pharma is most advanced.

Cmon, don't be so cynical. Pretty sure IOC under major pressure to triple check the test results given the controversy.

Chinese have advanced in many sporting fields because there is serious money in endorsements that comes after success. Top Chinese sports personel can make millions in endorsements of products within China. As the consumer market increases, the endorsements go up. They can afford better facilites, better coaches, more science.

You don't seem to understand how this works. People and states that are involved in doping have extensive programmes on when to dope, where to dope, how to dope to avoid a positive test. There are new classes of drugs that do not show up or they use masking agents.

People like Lance Armstrong are known to be involved because of the people they meet in ridiculous locations. These people are not his pastor or his marriage counsellor.

They could not touch the East Germans until the regime fell and records revealed how advanced the doping programme.

Ye Shiwen made a mistake in her last lap. I think she was excited amd for got what the plan was.

Remember Ma's army and how mysteriously they vanished.
 
If Ye Shiwen had doped and it's systemic, why only enter her in 2 races and we do not see any other Chinese swimmers winning Gold, besides Sun Yang, and he wins only 1 Gold.

Ye did not come out of 'nowhere'. She was already, at 14, the Asian 200 IM and 400 IM champ. I remember seeing her at 2010 Asian Games and saying - there goes a future world-beater.

At the 2010 world short-course championships, she won silver in both the 200 IM and 400 IM.

At 15 (last year), she won the world aquatics long-course 200 IM.

Even the American camp is being disingenuous. Just before the Olympics, Beisel and her coach were already saying that the 2 Chinese are her greatest threats and will probably wrap up the gold between them. Stephanie Rice was never in the picture; all the swimming insiders knew she was past her prime and her times this year were slow.

How did she 'come out of the blue' when the who's who of swimming have all been aware of her metoric rise since 2010?

And if she were on 'roids, she wouldn't have lagged so far behind in the first 3 legs, since 'roids tend to improve times in strength-dependent strokes (butterfly, breast-stroke) rather strokes dependent on technique like the front crawl (see Sun's perfect languid technique). If anything it simply shows her stroke development is unbalanced - her butterfly and breast stroke are atrocious - and she has still some way to go before she becomes an accomplished all-rounder.

Talking about suss, 15-year-old Ruta Meilutyte's sensational 100m breast-stroke victory was a lightning bolt of the blue that blindsided even her own parents. But no one says anything. Because Lithuania is now a 'democracy' and hence allied with the Western free world, so therefore Lithuanians have now ditched their Soviet-era drug habit? Because commies are always drug cheats, and capitalists are Christ-fearing, honest-to-God athletes whose idea of doping is a protein shake laced with rum?

Gimme a break!
 
I want also to believe this result but I think she should be tested again and again to ensure this is genuine. One thing that disturbs me is she went really fast in the last lap like she got lots in the tank. If thats the case, this world record won't stand for long.
 
Based on your premise then Phelps could very well be helped by some super undetectable drug concocted over in the US where team sports

The black market for doping products is bigger than the combined market for weed, heroin, ice, speed and what have you. It has to be going somewhere. All countries are guilty.. some more so than others. I am under no illusions. Sports is a dirty business and people will play dirty regardless of nationality. China is well known for cheating in almost every activity it engages in... food production, industrial products, educational qualifications, traditional medicines etc all tampered with or altered to increase profit.

To think that when it comes to the Olympics, they suddenly becomes beacons of fair play and honesty is the height of naivety.

http://m.calgarysun.com/2012/04/18/new-illegal-drugs-available-in-runup-to-olympics
 
During an informative and entertaining address to an anti-doping conference last month, German researcher Mario Thevis referred to "80, 90, 100" new performance-enhancing drugs for which no tests yet exist.

"They act like EPO (erythropietin) but they are structurally different and that means the current EPO tests will not pick them up," he told delegates to the conference in London convened by worldsportslawreport.

Thevis added that "according to anecdotal evidence and rumours" the drugs, which replicate EPO's blood-boosting qualities, were already used in elite sports.

EPO stimulates the bone marrow to produce more red blood cells. This increases the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood, allowing muscles to perform for longer.

News that up to 100 new drugs could be available in the runup to this year's London Olympics will astonish only the naive.

"It doesn't surprise me," responded World Anti-Doping Agency director-general David Howman. "We are in the area where we are into third and fourth generations and they continue to climb. Whether they are detectable or not depends on the ability of the individual laboratory."
One in two competitors will be tested during the London Games, including all medalists, and the estimated 400 daily tests are higher than any previous Olympics.

The problem will not be at the Games themselves, running from July 27-August 12, but the months before in the eternal cat-and-mouse game between the dope cheats and the testers.

"In terms of the program that is in place for the Olympic Games, I think it is very good," Howman said in a telephone interview with Reuters from WADA's Montreal headquarters.

"The International Olympic Committee have got probably the most extensive program they could possibly operate. From the day that athletes come into the opening of the village to the closing ceremony, that's good.

"What we need is extensive pre-Games testing and we need all the samples that are collected to be tested for the full menu of substances."
EPO, the drug at the core of the 1998 Tour de France doping scandals, is a sore subject for WADA.

Earlier this year, Howman said that out of 258,000 doping tests conducted in 2010 only 36 had turned up positives for EPO.

"You can understand the frustration that I have been voicing over the past six months," he said in the interview. "We can do a little bit better than that and one of the reasons we don't do better is that many of the samples are sent to the lab and the lab is asked not to analyze for EPO. That's just outrageous."

Howman said there were a number of reasons why national anti-doping agencies or international federations did not want samples analyzed for EPO.

"One, we don't want to pay the extra cost for EPO, two we don't think we have a problem in our sport and three, maybe, is we don't want to know what the results are going to be," he said.

"What we are getting is many, many samples not being analyzed. That's our suspicion that there were only 36 positive tests in 2010...that defies logic."

Another current headache for the testers is gene doping, the use of gene therapy to smuggle performance-enhancing drugs into a healthy body. Legitimate gene therapy introduces genes into the body to treat diseases.

Gene doping was included on WADA's prohibited list in 2003 and in 2006 years former WADA president Dick Pound said: "You would have to be blind not to see that the next generation of doping will be genetic." However, six years later there is still no test and there will be nothing in place at the London Games.

Anna Baoutina, a senior research scientist at the National Measurement Institute in Sydney, told Reuters effective methods are being devised but it was up to WADA to decide when they are to be implemented.

"The major feature of gene doping is that it is very difficult to detect compared to drug doping," she said.

"In effect, gene doping is the 'illegitimate' derivation of gene therapy. Gene therapy aims to treat human diseases which are caused by defects in genes. It does this by introducing in the cells of our bodies new genetic material.

"Gene doping is also the introduction of genetic material into the cells but in the absence of defective genes and with the purpose of enhancing performance. For example, if additional copies of genes for human growth hormone (HGH) or EPO are delivered into athletes' cells, the cells will produce more of these proteins and this may result in performance enhancement."

Baoutina said EPO was likely to be among the first candidates for gene doping.

"The problem is that the doping gene and the protein that is produced from it are very similar to the natural forms that are present in the body," she said.

Could gene doing be a problem in London?

"Scientists working on gene doping detection may be close to a method of testing for gene doping soon," Baoutina said. "In the meantime, the IOC decision to store the athletes' samples for eight years may be a disincentive for them and their managers to try gene doping."
Howman said he rated gene doping alongside a number of other threats resulting from advances in medicine and health. He added he had been told 25 percent of the world's pharmaceutical products came from the black market.

"You need to look at HGH and testosterone, you need to look at the 40-odd varieties of EPO," he said.

"And then you need to look at the ways and means some of these substances are used in micro-dosing or cocktails and so on mostly in an effort to avoid detection.

"That's what you are dealing with, you are dealing with people who are very sophisticated and have devised the art of being sophisticated in order to avoid detection.

"It's a little bit like (what) tax lawyers and accountants do to avoid people paying tax. The same sort of sophistication in a different part of society.

"This is the difficulty when you get medicine advancing through the pharmaceutical industry in secrecy because they don't want their research and development to be done by other pharmacies and so on.

"On the other side of the coin, is the black market. They put stuff out there before it has been properly regulated and approved ethically. So you have a black market where I am told 25 percent of the world's pharmaceutical products come from.

"We just have to rely on information and pass it on to people who can do something about it."
 
I cannot agree more. Do all the test you want but if you find nothing then give her the recognition she deserves. If you find drugs, expell her for life! I keep reading about how she is so young. It seems like all the top female swimmers are between 15 to 17!

I want also to believe this result but I think she should be tested again and again to ensure this is genuine. One thing that disturbs me is she went really fast in the last lap like she got lots in the tank. If thats the case, this world record won't stand for long.
 
I want also to believe this result but I think she should be tested again and again to ensure this is genuine. One thing that disturbs me is she went really fast in the last lap like she got lots in the tank. If thats the case, this world record won't stand for long.

All Olympic medallists are tested immediately after their events. No worries there. Even the world anti-doping chief said he believes Ye is clean.

Anyway, Ye has always been disproportionately strong in the freestyle, and an improvement of 5 seconds in her PB is nothing suss, especially in a swimmer that's still growing taller and stronger. Stephanie Rice, already a veteran, broke the world 400m IM record 4 years ago by slashing 6 secs off her PB. And no one dared whisper a word.
 
All Olympic medallists are tested immediately after their events. No worries there. Even the world anti-doping chief said he believes Ye is clean.

Anyway, Ye has always been disproportionately strong in the freestyle, and an improvement of 5 seconds in her PB is nothing suss, especially in a swimmer that's still growing taller and stronger. Stephanie Rice, already a veteran, broke the world 400m IM record 4 years ago by slashing 6 secs off her PB. And no one dared whisper a word.

I don't understand why sinkies are getting all defensive just because Ye's skin tone is similar to theirs.

Whenever extraordinary results are achieved which seem to be super human, eyebrows and suspicions are raised. This white boy is suspect just like the rest of the athletes that break records by ridiculous margins.

http://swimming.about.com/b/2007/03/31/is-ian-thorpe-guilty-of-doping.htm

Testing means nothing. Drug agencies can only test for known doping products. You can't design a lab test for a compound that you don't know exists. The drug companies are many steps ahead of the testers.
 
All countries are guilty.. some more so than others. I am under no illusions.

Absolutely agree. But I also believe that China, being under intense scrutiny by the Western world after the doping scandals of the '90s, is probably doing more than the average European or American national sports association to stamp out drugs and rehabilitate its tainted image. But to believe any country is completely drug-free is to believe in Santa and Rudolph.

The other factor supporting this view is that most of the high-tech synthetic doping and masking agents are invariably concocted in Western labs, which are streets ahead of China pharmaceutically (one reason why so many Chinese and Indian athletes were caught when they started competing internationally, and why Marion Jones, Flo-Jo and her ilk all tested negative). The Chinese are probably 3-5 years behind the West in the technological race between drug cheats and testing labs.
 
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