• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

CSJ gives judge headache - judgement reserved.

Judge: Can one be guilty of offence if police gave permission?

http://yoursdp.org/index.php/news/s...-guilty-of-offence-if-police-gave-permission/

Judge: Can one be guilty of offence if police gave permission?
Thursday, 04 August 2011
Singapore Democrats

tbt-toapayoh.jpg


High Court Judge Quentin Loh wondered out loud if a person can be guilty of committing an offence if law enforcers had given permission for him to carry out that activity.

This occurred during the appeal hearing of Chee Siok Chin, Chee Soon Juan, Chong Kai Xiong, Seelan Palay and John Tan. The five were appealing their conviction of conducting an assembly without a permit when they distributed pamphlets and sold Tak Boleh Tahan (can't take it) T-shirts on 9 Aug 08 at Toa Payoh Central.

<iframe width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4lbB6bIJUHM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The appellants had conducted the same activity a few months earlier on 1 May that year also at Toa Payoh Central to commemorate May Day. As can be seen from this video, the group was also selling Tak Boleh Tahan and distributing flyers on that occasion.

On 1 May the police, after observing the activity, came to the conclusion that there was no illegal assembly and that no offence had been committed. They issued the following statement which was published on 2 May 08 in the Today newspaper:

Police received a call from the Bishan-Toa Payoh Town Council reporting that Chee Soon Juan was distributing pamphlets, and had set up a table selling books and T-shirts at Toa Payoh Central. Police observation in response to the call confirmed it. Chee did not stage an unlawful assembly or an illegal outdoor demonstration. (emphasis added)

Based on this statement, the group then proceeded to conduct a similar activity a few months later on 9 August to commemorate National Day.

This time, however, the police prosecuted the participants for assembly without a permit and District Judge Kessler Soh found the SDP members and activists guilty. (Read report here)

<iframe width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/m879OO8-TgA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

“How can we be expected to reasonably know that a permit was needed for the activity when the police had stated that the same activity conducted earlier was permissible?” asked Dr Chee Soon Juan.

Justice Loh seemed confused as well. He asked the Deputy Public Prosecutor for clarification: If someone asks a friend for permission to do something and that something turned out to be against the law, it would be difficult for him to say that his friend had given him permission and expect to use that as a defence in a court of law.

“But in this case,” Judge Loh pointed out, “it was the police who had said that there was no offence committed.”

The DPP insisted, however, that the appellants knew that a permit was required and that ignorance of the law was not a defence.

Dr Chee responded that ignorance of the law implies an absence of knowledge. In this case, the appellants were told unambiguously by the police that a group of people distributing pamphlets and selling books and T-shirts did not constitute an unlawful assembly.

The Judge indicated that he needed time to think over the issue and reserved judgement.


Read also: Singapore logic: Okay on 1 May, not okay 9 Aug
 
Personally, I feel Dr Chee advocacy skills is much better than many practicing lawyers, including, no less, the SCs.
 
Blurcock Poodles and a Confused Judge in a Kangaroo Court..A good script for a comedy Show
 
They are not serving the public but the MIW, say what you will.
 
Yea. He's not trained in law but his law skills in arguments beat the poodles, the district judge and many lawyers to boot. He gave Old Man and his son a hard time by being persistent and polite and asking sensible questions. Exasperated Old Man to no end.

Personally, I feel Dr Chee advocacy skills is much better than many practicing lawyers, including, no less, the SCs.
 
Am not a fan of CSJ, but what he said make sense. Hope he wins this case.

As for the police, an honest mistake that haunts.
 
Re: Judge: Can one be guilty of offence if police gave permission?

The answer is quite obvious. The police are law enforcers; trained in law and order and if they say it's not an offence, then members of the public are entitled to rely on what they said. No two ways about it. This is nothing to do with the argument that ignorance of the law is no excuse. The judge's difficulty lies not in interpreting common sense (which says it is not an offence) but more in exploring whether an offence can nevertheless be committed despite the police saying it's no offence.:rolleyes: The graceful way to exit is to find them not guilty as charged. :D
 
The judge will probably consult someone and wait for further instruction. If he acquit them, bye bye to his career.
 
Re: Judge: Can one be guilty of offence if police gave permission?

The difference:
1st May = Labor Day (the only day to protest)
9th Aug = National Day (the only day to unite)

Wrong theme, like you go to the beach foam party in tuxedo... :D
 
Re: Judge: Can one be guilty of offence if police gave permission?

The difference:
1st May = Labor Day (the only day to protest)

Sure or not, we can go all out to protest on Labor Day without fear of being arrested.

Can show us the law that permits it?
 
GE 2016 means PAP will still be at the helm

32988.png
31639.png



We have to defend SDP because these people are more vocal compared to Chia Tow Kway Eating Party and Chiam 's Sinking Party. NSP is quite empty except the Super Social Worker cum Facebook celeb. There's nothing wrong with Nicole's way of reaching out to pro-oppos. But, her social worker stinct can hamper her to go further. She needs a good strategy.

You should have known by now that GE 2016 means PAP will still be at the helm. Those freaky fts will become 'citizens' in no time. These suckers with the old folks will outvote you. The fascists know you guys and the next gen are their nemesis and will continue to execute their fiendish plans.

So, are you willing to pull the trigger ? If the spirit is NOT willing ... the cause for you to write anything here is gone.
 
Re: Judge: Can one be guilty of offence if police gave permission?

Sure or not, we can go all out to protest on Labor Day without fear of being arrested.
Can show us the law that permits it?

no law permits it ...

then again 1st May is International Workers' Day and there are usually rallies in many countries on this day.. the police probably closes one eye (but don't expect them to close both :D )...
 
Back
Top