Agree!!! so "Crumbling of SG" is imminent?
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Crumbling of Singapore?
- Thread starter TracyTan866
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Agree!!! so "Crumbling of SG" is imminent?
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Can you please start a separate thread for all your news clippings. It's messing up this thread which should stick to debating the issue of whether or not Singapore is crumbling or thriving.
Your soundbites taken out of context contribute little to the debate but are taking up server resources.
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For good house-keeping practice, I agree with your suggestion. But aren't u also doing the same by repeatedly posting articles on GDP growth, number of millionaires, number of luxury cars owned etc all of which are meaningless to the ordinary folks' standard of living which is what this debate is all about, and hence don't serve a single purpose in this thread either.
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I've started a thread for all those articles. They won't be posted here anymore.
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This debate is about the crumbling of Singapore, not the crumbling of ordinary folks. Whether you like it or not, the rich constitute part of Singapore. All those GDP figures and millionaire statistics are therefore relevant to the upper stratum of society. Where I diverge from Samantha Leong is that I think the contributions of the PAPpies are overstated.
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This debate is about the crumbling of Singapore, not the crumbling of ordinary folks. Whether you like it or not, the rich constitute part of Singapore. All those GDP figures and millionaire statistics are therefore relevant to the upper stratum of society. Where I diverge from Samantha Leong is that I think the contributions of the PAPpies are overstated.
The ordinary folks aren't crumbling either. A handful of losers have crumbled on the pressure of competition but that's about it. The rest are either holding their own or thriving.
This debate is about the crumbling of Singapore, not the crumbling of ordinary folks. Whether you like it or not, the rich constitute part of Singapore. All those GDP figures and millionaire statistics are therefore relevant to the upper stratum of society. Where I diverge from Samantha Leong is that I think the contributions of the PAPpies are overstated.
That's the most hair-splitting definition I've come across to mask a desperate attempt to salvage a losing position. Only an idiot would say that reference to Singapore is the brick and mortar and therefore the crumbling of S'pore means the collapse of such concrete and metal structures . Of course when one talks about S'pore in this context it has to be focusing on the lives of its people. Infrastructures had been rebuilt but lives once destroyed can't. And the policies of the PAP are indeed destroying lives. I had thought that the label "twit" is monopolised by Leongsam, looks like u are giving him some hard competition.
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Who mentioned anything about concrete and metal structures? You're giving me the creeps. First it was hotbot. Then jar_mustafa. Now you. Why are there so many schizophrenics in this forum?
Yeah. Aren't the rich part of the "people"? Since GDP growth benefits them, making many of them millionaires, couldn't it be argued that the lives of some people in Singapore have improved by leaps and bounds?
Who mentioned anything about concrete and metal structures? You're giving me the creeps. First it was hotbot. Then jar_mustafa. Now you. Why are there so many schizophrenics in this forum?
Yeah. Aren't the rich part of the "people"? Since GDP growth benefits them, making many of them millionaires, couldn't it be argued that the lives of some people in Singapore have improved by leaps and bounds?
Looks like you're really succeeding in ousting Leongsam for the "twit" label.
Any right thinking person would now what this thread is all about and the twisted bordering on perverted logic you and Leongsam has been spewing.
I was in Singapore recently, and therefore, with ears to the ground with the commoners, as well as those who have done financially well, the lower income groups (say the 8th, 9th and 10th decile) are struggling to balance expenses with income.
If the present policies and trends continue, the lowest quartile will find it increasing challenging, especially without the unwinding of the policy of foreign workers low wages to depress and suppress the Singaporeans. the unwinding of that foreign workers policy will hurt the employers, the govt, and the Singaporeans, but in my respectful view, it must be implemented ASAP. This will lead to a minimum wage policy, for the sake of the lowest quartile, and to reduce the income gap between the top decile and the lowest quartile.
The govt has to realize that if the bottom quartile continues to struggle and have nothing to lose, they may revolt or do something silly, to the detriment of all parties.
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A minimum wage will do nothing for them. Inflation will eat away whatever increase in wages they're awarded in a matter of months.
If a coffee shop owner has to pay his assistants who make and serve coffee a minimum wage, you're not going to be able to get coffee for 80 cents. It'll be $3 which is what I have to pay in NZ.
Same thing will happen in neighborhood shops, hawker stalls, food courts, conservancy charges etc... all will rise to cover the increased overheads from the minimum wage.
The govt is correct that increasing productivity is the only solution. The bone of contention is how to bring that about.
I agree partially, but the low wage not so skilled foreign workers is a very bad policy. I disagree that a minimum wage will not work, because it may increase the cost of a cup of coffee from 80 cents or $1.00 to about $1.50 to $2.00 (not $3.00 - I can still buy a cup of coffee for $1.33 at McDonalds, $1.43 at Tim Horton's, $1.65 at Second Cup, $1.85 at Starbucks, in Toronto - not $3.00), but with respect, the SG govt has to unwind the cheap foreign workers.
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My old friend complained to me the other day that his young poly graduate son could only draw a starting monthly salary of $1,800. When the father (ie. my friend) first came out to work 25 years ago, he could earn $1,600 per month. My friend is really mad about this wage stagnation and said that combined with inflation it is going to bring misery to many of our young workers.....
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I can get a cup of coffee at McDonald's in NZ for a similar price but I'd prefer to drink water.
Is there a separate youth minimum wage where you are? That often explains why fast food outlets can keep their overheads lower.
The idea that a minimum age will eliminate the struggle to make ends meet at the lower deciles is a myth. NZ has a generous minimum wage and the whole of South Auckland is a poverty zone where the poor can't afford to pay their electricity bills. All a minimum wage does is shift the reference point not solve the issue.
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This is in a country with a minimum wage of $13.50 per hour. That's more than $100 per day / $3000 per month.
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Poverty our biggest growth industry - academic
NICOLA BRENNAN-TUPARA
Last updated 10:37 17/04/2012
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Poverty our biggest growth industry - academic
NICOLA BRENNAN-TUPARA Last updated 10:37 17/04/2012
New Zealand's biggest growth industry isn't agriculture or manufacturing – it's poverty, a Waikato University professor says.
Social scientist, Professor Darrin Hodgetts, said New Zealand was "growing poverty".
"It's our growth industry and it's growing at three times the OECD average," Prof Hodgetts said.
According to the OECD at least one in five New Zealand children live in severe or significant hardship, while at least one in four children lived below the semi-official poverty line.
According to figures, the richest 1 per cent of the population owns three times more than the combined cash and assets of the poorest 50 per cent.
Hodgetts is an expert on homelessness and has researched the experiences of marginalised groups in New Zealand.
"Things like Working for Families have had an impact but they haven't stopped the growth and the OECD figures are pretty conservative," he said.
New Zealand had gone from one of the most equitable societies – in terms of income distribution – to one of the worst.
"And the cracks are getting bigger. The problem is we don't see these things as a human rights issue."
He said the Government was quite happy to rely on food banks to feed people.
"We signed a declaration with the United Nations that says food is a human right and people should have it, yet we don't provide a living wage and a lot of people don't have access to enough food.
"We need to have a frank conversation about that."
Hodgetts is two months into an Auckland-based study called Family 100, interviewing 100 struggling families in the region about their experiences.
"There's lots of conversations about families in need and lots of opinions about what goes on in these households, but there's a lack of research about the realities.
"It's no good endlessly talking about those families without actually engaging with them. When you do, you realise that a lot of these people are good parents who are really concerned about their kids and they're doing their best."
Hodgetts' comments are backed by Claire Dale, a research fellow at Auckland University business school's retirement policy and research centre and the chief editor of the Child Poverty Action Group's flagship publication Left Further Behind.
Poverty was a growing problem that was exacerbated by the way it was dealt with, she said.
"If you privatise the support for people in poverty, or for people on welfare, or for people in need of assistance, then you are growing the industry. You are creating an industry and growing it."
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Far more people were in poverty now than had been at the start of the global financial crisis, Dale said.
She agreed poverty should be viewed as a human rights issue, and that poverty was growing faster in this country than in many other developed countries.
Child health statistics were "appalling", with children living in crowded, damp houses getting third world diseases.
"Of particular concern is all the adolescents who aren't in employment, or work, or education. That's terrible. We can't afford to lose a generation," Dale said.
******
Poverty our biggest growth industry - academic
NICOLA BRENNAN-TUPARA
Last updated 10:37 17/04/2012
Share
Poverty our biggest growth industry - academic
NICOLA BRENNAN-TUPARA Last updated 10:37 17/04/2012
New Zealand's biggest growth industry isn't agriculture or manufacturing – it's poverty, a Waikato University professor says.
Social scientist, Professor Darrin Hodgetts, said New Zealand was "growing poverty".
"It's our growth industry and it's growing at three times the OECD average," Prof Hodgetts said.
According to the OECD at least one in five New Zealand children live in severe or significant hardship, while at least one in four children lived below the semi-official poverty line.
According to figures, the richest 1 per cent of the population owns three times more than the combined cash and assets of the poorest 50 per cent.
Hodgetts is an expert on homelessness and has researched the experiences of marginalised groups in New Zealand.
"Things like Working for Families have had an impact but they haven't stopped the growth and the OECD figures are pretty conservative," he said.
New Zealand had gone from one of the most equitable societies – in terms of income distribution – to one of the worst.
"And the cracks are getting bigger. The problem is we don't see these things as a human rights issue."
He said the Government was quite happy to rely on food banks to feed people.
"We signed a declaration with the United Nations that says food is a human right and people should have it, yet we don't provide a living wage and a lot of people don't have access to enough food.
"We need to have a frank conversation about that."
Hodgetts is two months into an Auckland-based study called Family 100, interviewing 100 struggling families in the region about their experiences.
"There's lots of conversations about families in need and lots of opinions about what goes on in these households, but there's a lack of research about the realities.
"It's no good endlessly talking about those families without actually engaging with them. When you do, you realise that a lot of these people are good parents who are really concerned about their kids and they're doing their best."
Hodgetts' comments are backed by Claire Dale, a research fellow at Auckland University business school's retirement policy and research centre and the chief editor of the Child Poverty Action Group's flagship publication Left Further Behind.
Poverty was a growing problem that was exacerbated by the way it was dealt with, she said.
"If you privatise the support for people in poverty, or for people on welfare, or for people in need of assistance, then you are growing the industry. You are creating an industry and growing it."
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Far more people were in poverty now than had been at the start of the global financial crisis, Dale said.
She agreed poverty should be viewed as a human rights issue, and that poverty was growing faster in this country than in many other developed countries.
Child health statistics were "appalling", with children living in crowded, damp houses getting third world diseases.
"Of particular concern is all the adolescents who aren't in employment, or work, or education. That's terrible. We can't afford to lose a generation," Dale said.
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Examples of what the NZ minimum wage does.
1) Fischer and Paykel used to hire 3000 workers in Auckland. Production has been shifted to Mexico 100%.
2) When I need someone to do coding, I go to http://www.elance.com and I can find someone in the world who can do the whole project at a quarter of the price it would cost if I used local skills.
3) Full time jobs disappear. All replaced with part time work. A builder used to have his own work force under his employ. He'll now go to http://www.awf.co.nz/labour.html to get temp help.
4. Huge underground cash economy.. people end up working without contracts... cash paid at the end of the day no questions asked or answered.
1) Fischer and Paykel used to hire 3000 workers in Auckland. Production has been shifted to Mexico 100%.
2) When I need someone to do coding, I go to http://www.elance.com and I can find someone in the world who can do the whole project at a quarter of the price it would cost if I used local skills.
3) Full time jobs disappear. All replaced with part time work. A builder used to have his own work force under his employ. He'll now go to http://www.awf.co.nz/labour.html to get temp help.
4. Huge underground cash economy.. people end up working without contracts... cash paid at the end of the day no questions asked or answered.
There is a minimum wage for teenagers, minimum age eligible to work is 14, if I am correct, but unable to remember the minimum wage for the 14 to 18 yr olds. Pardon me.
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