Crumbling of Singapore?

[TracyTan866]

i second that!!!

and i admit i could be guilty of that some times :o:o:o

every country has its ugly citizens...we are talking abt economic, financial and productive activities here...not cultural, demographic or social. otherwise there is no end to the discussion

 

[scroobal]

Have to disagree. It might be the case if we were operating a full welfare state where you are given stipends and allowances just for being a life.

In Singapore, even in a full employment situation, there will be competition amongst Singaporeans to get better and more lucrative positions. There is also the high housing and car costs which would drive people to earn more.

Singaporeans however have been become complacent in fending for themselves especially in retirement as they were mollycoddled by the govt and had the impression that CPF will fix it.

They spoilt Singaporeans by creating a full employment scenario and limiting competition from abroad.

As a result of this, even the laziest and most useless Singaporean was in the demand in a labour market heavily skewed in the employee's favour.

Thankfully, the PAP realised the error of their ways and Singaporeans now have to compete for jobs that used to be theirs for the taking. However, the fact that foreigners are preferred by most employers shows that Singaporeans still haven't regained the work ethic that was a hallmark of the early pioneers.

 

[TracyTan866]

Have to disagree. It might be the case if we were operating a full welfare state where you are given stipends and allowances just for being a life.

In Singapore, even in a full employment situation, there will be competition amongst Singaporeans to get better and more lucrative positions. There is also the high housing and car costs which would drive people to earn more.

Singaporeans however have been become complacent in fending for themselves especially in retirement as they were mollycoddled by the govt and had the impression that CPF will fix it.

Good points I dont see my generation of Singaporeans being complacent. I see most of us working very hard...

Maybe it's a generational perspective, older Singaporeans seeing younger Singaporeans as soft and complacent. But is that perspective correct?

 

[zhihau]

Singaporeans however have been become complacent in fending for themselves especially in retirement as they were mollycoddled by the govt and had the impression that CPF will fix it.

bro,

i strongly disagree on this. i'd rather take care and handle the CPF monies on my own than to let them decide what's good for me.
to hell with CPF Life :oIo::oIo::oIo:

 

[Leongsam]

In Singapore, even in a full employment situation, there will be competition amongst Singaporeans to get better and more lucrative positions. There is also the high housing and car costs which would drive people to earn more.

The irony of the situation is that the less educated and less qualified workers were earning more than the graduates.

From 1977 to 1986, most of my technicians and supervisors took home more than I did after adding shift allowances and overtime pay.

When I tried to send them for training, they turned down the offer. When I wanted to promote them, they declined the promotion. They didn't want to lose the shift allowances that made up more than half their take home pay.

They drove brand new Jap cars. I drove an 8 year old Ford Escort. When I was invited to their homes, I found monster 33" TV sets in their living rooms. All I had was 18".

They thought the party would never end. They are the people who now struggle to make ends meet driving taxis or working as security guards. Who do they blame?.. the government of course.

 

[TracyTan866]

bro,

i strongly disagree on this. i'd rather take care and handle the CPF monies on my own than to let them decide what's good for me.
to hell with CPF Life :oIo::oIo::oIo:

wise..be responsible for yourself and your own money.

CPF Life is a scam...the CPF gives you pittance for risking your monies while they reap the joy juice from management fees. bad investment, you take the losses, they take the management fees. good investment you dont get the full benefit of the profits, they still get the management fees. why shd a CPF depositor lose either way? they can invest their own monies without having to incur high management fees

 

[Windsor]

The irony of the situation is that the less educated and less qualified workers were earning more than the graduates.

From 1977 to 1986, most of my technicians and supervisors took home more than I did after adding shift allowances and overtime pay.

When I tried to send them for training, they turned down the offer. When I wanted to promote them, they declined the promotion. They didn't want to lose the shift allowances that made up more than half their take home pay.

They drove brand new Jap cars. I drove an 8 year old Ford Escort. When I was invited to their homes, I found monster 33" TV sets in their living rooms. All I had was 18".

They thought the party would never end. They are the people who now struggle to make ends meet driving taxis or working as security guards. Who do they blame?.. the government of course.

Not sure which industry you are referring to as it is very general and wide. Those in the aircraft maintenance and air conditioning fields that I am familiar with are doing better than ever before. I believe those lower educated class that landed up in certain niche areas earned more than the run of the mill graduates. Those with hands on skills and experience is like your 70 year old professional golfer, they never lose their livelihood.

 

[GoldenDragon]

I concentrate on things which are directly within my control such as which spot to go for my fishing tomorrow and which trail I'll ride my bike through on Sunday.

Read somewhere in this forum that you are owner of a unique bicycle - one without seat? I am keen to purchase a similar bicycle. Any recommendation? Thanks, bro.

 

[sleaguepunter]

shd all singaporeans speak out against "NS for Singapore guys. Jobs for foreigners"?

the problem u are only using NS to label singapore men as submissive. i repeat again, NS didnt not make men submissive, in fact NS let men know the evil of pap govt during their NS. by the way, i no more supportive of NS than any singapore men out there. i seriously think MoD need to rethink the conscription system and since SAF had been claiming the new high tech weapons as great force "multiplier" than there no need to have 350Kmen in the SAF rolls which dont even included the MRed personnels who are still liable to call up. As for jobs for FTrashs, maybe you should boycott the companies too that are involve in the scheme to hire only FTrashs instead of just kpkb here.

As for the 1-6 households having a million in asset, it could be true as i happen to be one. i am not an old man, i believe i am 10yrs younger than GMS. i not those asset rich but cash poor. in fact, have a few hundred Ks cash in banks, 4room flat fully paid for and a full paid for city car. i am debt free and my household income only a couple Ks above national average. of course have to forgo certain enjoyments like yearly oversea holidays that my friends always go on credit cards instalments. work hard also must save and look out for bargain investments. some singaporeans i admit do work hard but many dont. Those that work hard may not work smart. Many are just plain lazy, want big $$ but want aircon job. everyday i see a couple 60+yo ah peks load/unloading 20-25kgs bags of flour for a $100 a day yet i can see younger men complain being paid $6.00/hr in a office job. i am sorry, if want $$, go out there and carry the flour lah. mind you, the two ah peks have childrens supporting them too but they willing to work as coolies to be financially independent. In fact, one of them drive a honda CRX to the warehouse.

as much as i prefer the govt to help the needy, that does not mean a welfare state.i would rather govt scrape consription, cut MoD budget and use the money on healthcare i think the cost is spiraling out of control. just to let you know, MoH is twisting the arms of the previous govt hospitals to give increments and bonus to the healthcare workers which MoH will fund a portion with the rest pay by the hospitals. In the end who will bear the cost, the end_user aka singaporeans lor as hospitals will have to adjust their fee to meet the increase in cost. All these just to gain votes from the healthcare workers. i heard plenty of stories regarding healthcare givers complaining about the "low" pays and allowances, kpkb just for an extra $10. mind you, it not the cleaners asking for $10 more but the qualified doctors. threatening to quit because other hospitals willing to pay $10 more.

As for the ministar adjustment, dont hold your breath as i doubt it will be announce soon as gerald ee changed to new consulting firm. It now a mercer project, why previous consulting firm lost the job, your guess is as good as mine.

 

[freedalas]

60% of the electorate are happy. That's an overwhelming mandate by any measure. Many govts around the world rule with a much smaller margin. Some have to cobble a shaky coalition together in order to gain a majority.

It is politically naive to say that the 60% voted for PAP because they are happy. There are many reasons why they had done so. Suffice to name a few here. One is the disbelief that our votes is secret. Irrational as this may be, but the fear is still very real among some S'poreans. Second, is the over-emphasis on municipal convenience by some voters that they are prepared to compromise on poorly conceived national policies. Some examples include - just to get a covered walkway from the bus-stop to their block of flats, some are willing to overlook PAP's greed in continuously deferring withdrawal of our CPF monies, or for some extra lamp posts below their blocks, they are prepared to accept the ever increasing public transport fares, or for children playground to keep mum over the out of the world politicians' salaries. Third, which is common in all countries, the voters don't want change for fear of the unknown.

So you see Mr Leongsam, to state so outrightly that 60% are happy just because they voted for the PAP and that in turn means they are giving the PAP an overwhelming mandate is simply being too simplistic, just as the 60% voters are. It's also too simpleton a thinking that a coalition govt can't outperform one with majority.

 

[bullfrog]

If you really think Singapore has all the good things going for it, why are you in NZ and not in SIN? Doesnt that tell us anything?

I'm not arguing. I have a bit of time on my hands because of the bad weather so I thought I'd take the time to point out that Singapore has a lot going for it.

Of course things could be a lot better but the same can be said of every country on earth.

Until you have had to put up with the crap that is generated by the governments of so called "first world" democracies, you won't appreciate the excellent job the PAP have done with a canvas of no more than 680 sq metres.

 

[TracyTan866]

It is politically naive to say that the 60% voted for PAP because they are happy. There are many reasons why they had done so. Suffice to name a few here. One is the disbelief that our votes is secret. Irrational as this may be, but the fear is still very real among some S'poreans. Second, is the over-emphasis on municipal convenience by some voters that they are prepared to compromise on poorly conceived national policies. Some examples include - just to get a covered walkway from the bus-stop to their block of flats, some are willing to overlook PAP's greed in continuously deferring withdrawal of our CPF monies, or for some extra lamp posts below their blocks, they are prepared to accept the ever increasing public transport fares, or for children playground to keep mum over the out of the world politicians' salaries. Third, which is common in all countries, the voters don't want change for fear of the unknown.

So you see Mr Leongsam, to state so outrightly that 60% are happy just because they voted for the PAP and that in turn means they are giving the PAP an overwhelming mandate is simply being too simplistic, just as the 60% voters are. It's also too simpleton a thinking that a coalition govt can't outperform one with majority.

Good points...I agree and support what u said

 

[TracyTan866]

If you really think Singapore has all the good things going for it, why are you in NZ and not in SIN? Doesnt that tell us anything?

hahaha...well said. let's see what he says

 

[freedalas]

Good points...I agree and support what u said

Thanks. One more point to rebut Mr Leongsam. He said 60% is considered a very good margin of electoral victory in other countries. But we are not talking about other countries where traditionally the margin of victory by any single political has always been very narrow. We are talking about S'pore where the PAP had enjoyed very large margin of victory in past elections, so when this was watered to just 60% in the last GE, it is of course a very substantial drop and clearly a sizable erosion of the people's mandate as compared to those of the past given to the PAP. Again, it is naively simplistic to simply cite generalities of situations elsewhere whereas the discussion ought to be focused in the context of S'pore political history.

 

[zhihau]

as much as i prefer the govt to help the needy, that does not mean a welfare state.i would rather govt scrape consription, cut MoD budget and use the money on healthcare i think the cost is spiraling out of control.

davai! davai! you will earn my vote

 

[Leongsam]

the data for the lowest 20% of Singapore household is freely available..it's not state secret. so you can get it easily.

The bottom 20% are the the "underclass". They exist in all societies. A good government is one that provides every opportunity for those who are motivated to succeed and life and the fact that one in six households has more than a million bucks in assets speaks for itself.

No government can make everyone millionaires. What they can do is create an environment where opportunities abound for those who want to make good in life. By this measure, the PAP is tops.

 

[Leongsam]

If you really think Singapore has all the good things going for it, why are you in NZ and not in SIN? Doesnt that tell us anything?

I explained that here.

 

[zhihau]

If you really think Singapore has all the good things going for it, why are you in NZ and not in SIN? Doesnt that tell us anything?

maybe Singapore don't have large area of grassland where one can ride freely? you know? like the one where Gandalf was riding the horse whilst charging at Sauron's minions. NZ has that lah :p:p:p

 

[neddy]

The up and coming Singapore that I grew up in do not exist anymore.

In those days, investments are for the future, and thrift and honesty to the people is what set Singapore apart from Lee Kuan Yew's peers in post colonial Africa and Asia.

Whatever Singapore do turned into "gold". Because America introduced money backed by imagination. The end of a gold-backed USD opened up to endless opportunities.

What a lot of Singaporeans do not know is that Lee has chosen to destroy institutions important to Singapore's future.

We are look at the consequences of Lee's failed policies on Singapore now.

There is now an elite ruling class that is all about self preservation.
There are also over-rewarding for the chosen privileged class.

There is also a dyfunctional system of GRC voting that allows even more nepotism like Tin Pei Ling to succeed where a brighter candidate fail.


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TracyTan866 has painted a rather naive view of NZ, not due to his/her fault.

It is precisely because of that "wonderful" one-stop "first world" dragon service provided by Singapore that such a naive view is formed.

NZ is more than just Milford Sound, it also has a lesser known Doubtful Sound.

Perhaps it is fair for me to say that I know where Sam Leong is coming from, despite not living in NZ.

I live in a REAL country called Australia with all its REAL beauty and REAL imperfections. OK, REAL beauty in Tassie (Tasmania) rather than the arid "beauty". But there are only 6 Singaporean families and I will find very hard not to network with them. NZ is closer to Tassie.

I see NZ imperfections in the strange tiny things Kiwis do - from running their Defense force's ancient Land Rovers while stationed in Singapore, loss of most of their Air Force, the Auckland Harbour Bridge,etc and I realise that the govt and the Pacific Islanders & natives living there must be pretty dumb.

But if I find fault with the govt or people, it is very much the same in Australia or Singapore. My life will be very miserable wondering at how stupid ideas like rights overresponsibilities, inclusiveness, multi-culturalism and same sex marriages exists (why can't same sex marriages call their union something else)

The reason why people like me migrate is to pursue the more important things in life, besides money.

Unlike Sam who still treat Singapore a second home, I prefer HongKong as my Aussie Summer retreat, and now Japan.

Like people of my generation, I am quite worried for young Singaporeans, Japanese, Aussies, etc
I am glad that I do not need to take up so much debts, or so sleep deprived.
The world had a good run, with Industrialization. But then, we had Globalisation, Financialisation and now Monetarisation. How outdated sovereign states can find solutions for globalised problems - very bleak.
So, people should be more mobile, just like multi-nationals corporation.

If anyone bother to read my post until the thispart, thank you for listening to my rambling.

 

[Leongsam]

maybe Singapore don't have large area of grassland where one can ride freely? you know? like the one where Gandalf was riding the horse whilst charging at Sauron's minions. NZ has that lah :p:p:p

It's not just the riding. It's the landscape photography http://www.evokenz.com/canvas-shop/landscape-photography/

The chance to give it a blast once in a while http://www.totalexperience.co.nz/dr...land/129200/?gclid=CNCpucieh60CFYaBpAodXTwGSA

Or a blast in the water http://www.nzjetski.co.nz/

Or fishing galore http://www.fishing.net.nz/

These experiences aren't govt dependent. National or Labour, left leaning or right wing.. it doesn't change the NZ landscape.

However, if I was interested in making big money, Singapore would be the place for me.

At the end of the day, it's all about personal choices.