Crumbling of Singapore?

[Leongsam]

I have to say again that you dont know how the pap has mismanaged SG until you know more abt what they do and not what you read

I lived there for 40 years and I'm there for almost 5 months a year. I know exactly how the Singapore govt operates. I also know very well how the Australian govt works and how the NZ government functions.

I can assure you that you're getting a good deal out of the Singapore government. It's not perfect.. it's not ideal... it's not utopia but it certainly is excellent by any measure.

 

[TracyTan866]

You can't compare salaries of individuals within government. You have to compare how much the whole government bureaucracy costs the nation as a percentage of its GDP.

NZ has so many layers of government that it costs an absolute bomb. To start with, there are 120 MPs in a country with a population smaller than Singapore's that generates a GDP only HALF that of Singapore.

The PM earns less than LHL but each MP earns at least 50% more than a Singapore MP. I also pay for the "FREE" air travel of these clowns all over NZ.

My taxes also have to support a huge local government empire.

If I did the calculations, my estimate that the NZ government (local plus national) costs the taxpayer at least DOUBLE what the Singapore govt costs for half the output.

Again, there is no need for comparison..when a govt Minister answers an Elected MP's question parliament: "It's a valid question and it's good for you to know the answer, but you dont have to know it" it speaks of political bankruptcy.

 

[TracyTan866]

I can assure you that you're getting a good deal out of the Singapore government. It's not perfect.. it's not ideal... it's not utopia but it certainly is excellent by any measure.

As I have said before and I dont wish to belabour my point..you are entitled to your opinion. we agree to disagree

 

[TracyTan866]

You can't compare salaries of individuals within government. You have to compare how much the whole government bureaucracy costs the nation as a percentage of its GDP.

NZ has so many layers of government that it costs an absolute bomb. To start with, there are 120 MPs in a country with a population smaller than Singapore's that generates a GDP only HALF that of Singapore.

The PM earns less than LHL but each MP earns at least 50% more than a Singapore MP. I also pay for the "FREE" air travel of these clowns all over NZ.

My taxes also have to support a huge local government empire.

My estimate is that the NZ government (local plus national) costs the taxpayer at least DOUBLE what the Singapore govt costs for half the output.

No one knows how much each PAP minister gets as he is entitled to a confidential end of year bonus which can be 6 to 12 mths

 

[halsey02]

Singapore is also one of the least corrupt countries in the world. While citizens bitch of minor glitches in backdrop of cleanliness and efficiency, foreigners continue to flock to the country to work and settle because they know what it's like to live in a real shit hole.

I have personally seen a full grown fruit tree, with semingly healthy looking leaves & fruits in its glory, fell by a colony of termites living inside. Yes, we have the least corruption, but we have have 'wood worms' & 'termites' in the system. Are we going to wait till a seemingly, healthy & bustling 'tree' collapse, & that will be too late.

The 60% have no idea, what they are buying into!, by the way, how could the swallows arrive, when there are predator birds on the horizon, shoot these first, then the swallows will come for the summer, unless the 100% is waiting for the winter of discontent to fall upon us & do us all in?

 

[brocoli]

As I have said before and I dont wish to belabour my point..you are entitled to your opinion. we agree to disagree

I am surprise the boss bother to argue with TracyTan866.... she been spamming the board celebrating the demise of PAP and she is certainly not the sharpest debater around....

 

[TracyTan866]

I have personally seen a full grown fruit tree, with semingly healthy looking leaves & fruits in its glory, fell by a colony of termites living inside. Yes, we have the least corruption, but we have have 'wood worms' & 'termites' in the system. Are we going to wait till a seemingly, healthy & bustling 'tree' collapse, & that will be too late.

The 60% have no idea, what they are buying into!,

well said..people cant use the 60% mandate to justify that the pap is a popular govt. they shd be more discerning and know the wiles and schemes employed by the pap to hold on to power..

wiles and schemes used by pap...eliminating and disqualifying good political opponents, GRCs, control of the media, compliant judiciary, etc..

despite all these, the pap only managed 60%..what a shame...

 

[TracyTan866]

. Yes, we have the least corruption, :

How do you arrive at this?

 

[Leongsam]

I am surprise the boss bother to argue with TracyTan866.... she been spamming the board celebrating the demise of PAP and she is certainly not the sharpest debater around....

I'm not arguing. I have a bit of time on my hands because of the bad weather so I thought I'd take the time to point out that Singapore has a lot going for it.

Of course things could be a lot better but the same can be said of every country on earth.

Until you have had to put up with the crap that is generated by the governments of so called "first world" democracies, you won't appreciate the excellent job the PAP have done with a canvas of no more than 680 sq kilometres.

 

[Leongsam]

wiles and schemes used by pap...eliminating and disqualifying good political opponents, GRCs, control of the media, compliant judiciary, etc..

Valid in the days of LKY. Definitely not valid in GE 2011. In fact, the quality of the opposition this time round was probably BETTER than what the PAP came up with in most wards. None of them have been arrested or sued so the compliant judiciary doesn't even come into the picture.

I was expecting less than 55% for the PAP. The fact that they managed to muster 60% is commendable. It shows that the PAP brand is well respected despite the fact that many of the candidates were not up to scratch.

 

[TracyTan866]

Valid in the days of LKY. Definitely not valid in GE 2011. In fact, the quality of the opposition this time round was probably BETTER than what the PAP came up with in most wards. None of them have been arrested or sued so the compliant judiciary doesn't even come into the picture.

I was expecting less than 55% for the PAP. The fact that they managed to muster 60% is commendable. It shows that the PAP brand is well respected despite the fact that many of the candidates were not up to scratch.

the rise of a political opponent takes time....the vacuum created takes time to fill...

are you saying GRC effect is no more valid in GE 2011?

are you saying control of MSN is no more valid ?

are you saying that compliant judiciary is no more?

 

[brocoli]

I'm not arguing. I have a bit of time on my hands because of the bad weather so I thought I'd take the time to point out that Singapore has a lot going for it.

Of course things could be a lot better but the same can be said of every country on earth.

Until you have had to put up with the crap that is generated by the governments of so called "first world" democracies, you won't appreciate the excellent job the PAP have done with a canvas of no more than 680 sq metres.

I have never lived outside of siNkie Land for Long period of time so I cant appreciate PAP...

I am more on Tracy side than yours but I wish she argue based on facts and figure and not just based on her opinion and emotion..

quantity doesnt mean quality.. spamming the forum doesnt mean her point is right...

 

[zhihau]

I was expecting less than 55% for the PAP.

SPH must be doing a great job then

 

[TracyTan866]

SPH must be doing a great job then

If SPH was more neutral, the pap wld have gotten less than 50%

 

[brocoli]

If SPH was more neutral, the pap wld have gotten less than 50%

typical TracyTan866 statement... have you done a control studies? on what basis are you saying this?

balame heaven blame earth, why dun you blame the stupid electorate and candidate quality ?

 

[Leongsam]

Again, there is no need for comparison..when a govt Minister answers an Elected MP's question parliament: "It's a valid question and it's good for you to know the answer, but you dont have to know it" it speaks of political bankruptcy.

Just wait till your taxes are used to pay a dope smoking MP that looks like this..

​

His platform was the legalisation of marijuana. That's all he ever talked about.

Imagine bringing up a kid in NZ and trying to explain the harm that drugs can cause when there's a member of parliament exhorting the benefits of smoking dope on a regular basis.

Google "Nándor Tánczos" if you want more info. I rest my case.

 

[TracyTan866]

Just wait till your taxes are used to pay a dope smoking MP that looks like this..

View attachment 3184

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His platform was the legalisation of marijuana. That's all he ever talked about.

Imagine bringing up a kid in NZ and trying to explain the harm that drugs can cause when there's a member of parliament exhorting the benefits of smoking dope on a regular basis.

Google "Nándor Tánczos" if you want more info. I rest my case.

culturally, socially, SG is different from NZ. you think such a person wld be elected as an MP in SG?
Why is there a need to use him for comparison?

I rest my case

 

[Leongsam]

I have never lived outside of siNkie Land for Long period of time so I cant appreciate PAP...

When you have to live in Singapore and go through the daily grind of earning a living, it is understandable that people tend to blame their lot on the govt. However, you have to ask yourself whether any other government could do any better.

Many of life's problems would exist no matter where you live and who is in power. We all want to earn more, work less, enjoy cheaper public transport, lower taxes, more holidays etc. If you think the MRT is bad and taxis are expensive in Singapore, wait till you take a 15 minute taxi ride in Auckland and the bill is $40 bucks! As for the MRT.. I'll probably be dead before the first train pulls out of the station.

 

[Leongsam]

culturally, socially, SG is different from NZ. you think such a person wld be elected as an MP in SG?
Why is there a need to use him for comparison?

If you think the culture of drugs and booze is just "different", I hope you don't have to face the day when a child of yours is killed by a motorist high on drugs or 3 times over the drink driving limit.

That's based on the assumption that none of your children end up as drug addicts in the first place. You may have to retrieve them from the morgue as a result of the "culture" spread by a dope smoking MP who was his role model.

 

[TracyTan866]

If you think the culture of drugs and booze is just "different", I hope you don't have to face the day when a child of yours is killed by a motorist high on drugs or 3 times over the drink driving limit.

That's based on the assumption that none of your children end up as drug addicts in the first place.

You missed the gist of my point...I am saying wld someone like him be elected as an MP by the SG electorate?

I didnt say that drugs and booze are not societal problems