CPF Life and Annuities

[kingrant]

So in order not to miss the forest, suppose you are the national govt. What scheme do you have in mind to replace the CPF?

We should never miss the forest for the trees. Opposition parties with the philosophy that all PAP policies are inherently good but not perfect and hence give their 2 cents' worth in micro-analysing should be rejected.

The entire exercise is part of the grand scheme to withhold our CPF money. The others are Minimum Sum, Minimum MediSave Amount and Withdrawal Age (all of which are being consistently raised).

 

[Ramseth]

So in order not to miss the forest, suppose you are the national govt. What scheme do you have in mind to replace the CPF?

That's the mentality that PAP has conditioned Singaporeans into. Must have some government schemes or laws for this, some for that. I say no schemes or laws for such things as natural as human survival and aging required. My ancestors lived through 5,000+ years from China to Singapore, no need annuity, no need medical insurance. Not only mine, but most of the ancestors to most of you here too. If can't survive that's our business. That's how it has been and is supposed to be.

 

[DASHUANGXI]

fortunately my boyfreind got more than $60,000

 

[phouse3]

So in order not to miss the forest, suppose you are the national govt. What scheme do you have in mind to replace the CPF?

Missing the forest for the trees refers to people who tried to micro-analyse. You see, inter-alia, the payouts depend on the starting and ending ages. For example, I can wave a magic wand and improve the payout by raising the starting age from 62 to 65, which the government is doing. Conversely, payouts will have to drop if the starting age is below 62.

As I have already said, return our CPF money at 55. You can buy an annuity, put the money under your pillow, keep it in the bank, invest in bonds/gold/mistresses/antiques, use it for daily expenses/healthcare, etc. Anything that you deem fit.

Why shouldn't Singaporeans be treated like adults at retirement age?

 

[lifeafter41]

What actually happens in the CPF life scheme is that the amount in yr SA gets parked with CPF Life. Then it accumulates interests at between 2.5% a minimum which CPF guarantees and up to 4% which varies. Yr monthly payouts will be apportioned out over 20 years or so from the principal amount in the SA. When that begins to run out, the accumulated interest portion will be paid out.

What happens next after age 82?. Frankly at this point of time, it is still a long time away to even think about it.

Sometimes all this pre supposition is just that, supposedly. Whether can live pass 70 is another question, or even 62. not to mention 82.

At this point of time, the Government is shifting it to the individual, will there comes a day, where they (the Government) is not so hard headed so as to take care of its aged population, what's the use of billions dollars of reserve, but the PA to ordinary citizen is a meagre S$360 per month.

 

[rodent2005]

Annuity is guaranteed income for life. What kind of nonsense is PAP Annuity stopping payment at 82?

 

[jw5]

Don't confuse yrself with the Ordinary Account and the Special Acct. The OA can be withdrawn on yr retiring age (just sign a paper and it will be transferred to yr bank acct. CPF will send the letter to you). You can't withdraw the SA. It will be used for the CPF Life annuity scheme by default unless you buy yr own.

Which I think is wrong to withhold the principal amount from the retiree.

 

[Ramseth]

Which I think is wrong to withhold the principal amount from the retiree.

If the retiree takes the whole amount, go casino or brothel, spent it all, how? Stay on street and complain government never take care? That's not my argument. That's government argument.

 

[jw5]

If the retiree takes the whole amount, go casino or brothel, spent it all, how? Stay on street and complain government never take care? That's not my argument. That's government argument.

The problem is that even if you give an annuity to a retiree who is determined to spend on casinos and brothels, he will still spend it all right?
He gets the annuity on the 1st , spends it all by the 15th and is back on the streets on the 16th.
Thats where I think that SG should have a selective welfare system, rather than have a nanny molly collldying system, which treats all citizens as if they were stupid and irresponsible. In this system, have more people and resources to check on these people who claim that they are needy or show that they are needy by staying on the streets. Give help to those really needy. For those with selfish family members, make those family members contribute. For those who pretend to be needy, punish them.
It's actually quite simple, it's just that their mentality don't allow them to get their hands dirty and really try to help the really needy.

 

[SickSinkies]

Singaporeans deserved to be robbed !

Makes me smile to see them die poor .

 

[lifeafter41]

I would if I have lots of money, which I don't.
I don't mind the idea of an annuity, but the main question I have is what happens to the principal amount. It would be nice to be able to use the principal amount, while I am still able to.

While to be able to retain the principal amount would be the most ideal case. To receive payout for the rest of life and retain it, I believe, is not feasible to the insurance companies or even CPF Life that is. Remember Insurance companies are also business entities, they are there to make profits for their shareholders, as for CPF Life......

 

[SickSinkies]

say goodbye to your $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ !

maybe if you can survive till 85 , maybe they will give you $100 a month !

 

[kingrant]

Isnt it better then to monitor and help these people when they are on an annuity payout scheme rather than lump sum payout?

The problem is that even if you give an annuity to a retiree who is determined to spend on casinos and brothels, he will still spend it all right?
He gets the annuity on the 1st , spends it all by the 15th and is back on the streets on the 16th.
Thats where I think that SG should have a selective welfare system, rather than have a nanny molly collldying system, which treats all citizens as if they were stupid and irresponsible. In this system, have more people and resources to check on these people who claim that they are needy or show that they are needy by staying on the streets. Give help to those really needy. For those with selfish family members, make those family members contribute. For those who pretend to be needy, punish them.
It's actually quite simple, it's just that their mentality don't allow them to get their hands dirty and really try to help the really needy.

 

[jw5]

Isnt it better then to monitor and help these people when they are on an annuity payout scheme rather than lump sum payout?

It may be better, but the point I'm making is that they are tarnishing all with a broad brush, which has been their style for the last 40+ years.
For every 100 retirees who are forced to put their money in the annuity, how many are going to blow it away on gambling and whores? How many will be responsible and spend and save it wisely if they were given a lump sum?
Whay you say may work if you want to nanny the people, but I take exception to being treated like that, because I know that I can be responsible.

 

[phouse3]

Scheme One: Life Basic Plan: 90% RA / 10% Premium (Annuity: 65-90 from RA / 90 onwards from longevity insurance)
Scheme Two: Default Plan: 70% RA / 30% Premium (Annuity: 65-80 fom RA / 80 onwards from longevity insurance)

I am sorry to have used different terms: Annuity = RA + CPF Life (where CPF Life=LI)
The definitions by CPF board: CPF Life = RA + Annuity.

You just need to replace the words.

Scheme One: Life Basic Plan: 90% RA / 10% Premium (CPF Life: 65-90 from RA / 90 onwards from Annuity)
Scheme Two: Default Plan: 70% RA / 30% Premium (CPF Life: 65-80 fom RA / 80 onwards from Annuity)

 

[IR123]

There are too many uncles and aunties in their 50s and 60s who are still working, mostly in blue collar jobs. I know of one in his 60s who is working in a white collar job but i do feel that his employer should receive the Patience Award.

Thus the CPF Life is a good scheme because it provide for a minimal standard of living.

What the government should do is to really control the rate of inflation. The basis by which inflation is calculated should not be changed. Once the basis is changed, it is no longer comparable across years and the track record of the PAP Government can no longer be accurately assessed.