[COVID-19 Virus] The Sinkies are fucked Thread.

[Leepotism]

I am always right.

Sam, i think you are the brightest of the bright here. Let's all clap.

 

[Leongsam]

Your "practical advice" would have overwhelmed hospitals and plunged the world into disaster. There's a reason why you will always be the manager of a shit forum because you have the brain the size of a pea and not capable of anything better.

My advice is more realistic to you: Just continue to talk about your "accomplishment" of ferreting out clones in your shitty forum and leave the serious thinking of managing a pandemic to people way above you.

No need for any fancy replies. All I have to do is point out that very few of the countries or states that adopted the light tough approach towards dealing with the pandemic were plunged into disaster and neither were their hospitals overwhelmed. On the other hand some countries were overwhelmed despite strict lockdowns so the situation was never black and white.

The opponents of this strategy pointed out in mid 2020 that lack of lockdowns had caused many deaths but we cannot do a body count till the dust has settled and many countries which were heralded for their outstanding response early last year have had to eat humble pie as their death toll soars as we speak.

When the pandemic is over and the scores are tallied to included non Covid deaths caused by lockdowns the results will be very interesting. I'll keep in touch.

 

[congo9]

Ion can close shop for a long time

 

[millim6868]

Closed? but airport still operstong tgose clowns even encourage ppl to visit ,another screw up but 61% loves it

 

[bobby]

It is not "unlinked".... the link is with the fucking infected foreigners can are still coming in.

 

[laksaboy]

It was a bad omen, but nobody believed it.

Blood, shattered glass at one store on first day of Ion Orchard's reopening after closure due to Covid-19​

https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...t-day-of-ion-orchards-reopening-after-closure

 

[laksaboy]

Ion can close shop for a long time

Unfortunately, if you're at Wheelock Place and you want to get to the other side of Paterson Road or Orchard MRT station, you are forced to use the underpass leading into Ion Orchard.

I am old enough to remember there was a pedestrian crossing across Paterson Road.

 

[batman1]

Due to sloppy border controls at Changi, many covid-19 infected Ah Nehs are walking time bombs all over the island. Thanks to the 61% !

 

[dredd]

No need for any fancy replies. All I have to do is point out that very few of the countries or states that adopted the light tough approach towards dealing with the pandemic were plunged into disaster and neither were their hospitals overwhelmed. On the other hand some countries were overwhelmed despite strict lockdowns so the situation was never black and white.

The opponents of this strategy pointed out in mid 2020 that lack of lockdowns had caused many deaths but we cannot do a body count till the dust has settled and many countries which were heralded for their outstanding response early last year have had to eat humble pie as their death toll soars as we speak.

When the pandemic is over and the scores are tallied to included non Covid deaths caused by lockdowns the results will be very interesting. I'll keep in touch.

Which countries that adopted the "light tough approach" were overwhelmed? India and Brazil comes to mind. Not only hospitals but crematoriums as well.

Sam, you'll do well to just stick to issues more suited to your juvenile mindset like type of vehicles, clones,...etc , those little things that makes you seem smart and leave out serious topics that are clearly beyond your understanding and makes you look like a fool.

For someone who compares alcohol and tobacco to diseases, and pivoting from "masks don't work" (putting out copious postings of crazy data to show they don't), to "masks do work IF worn properly", you still dare to offer your "practical advice?" What an idiot.

 

[Leongsam]

Which countries that adopted the "light tough approach" were overwhelmed? India and Brazil comes to mind. Not only hospitals but crematoriums as well.

Sam, you'll do well to just stick to issues more suited to your juvenile mindset like type of vehicles, clones,...etc , those little things that makes you seem smart and leave out serious topics that are clearly beyond your understanding and makes you look like a fool.

For someone who compares alcohol and tobacco to diseases, and pivoting from "masks don't work" (putting out copious postings of crazy data to show they don't), to "masks do work IF worn properly", you still dare to offer your "practical advice?" What an idiot.

India has done fine compared to Europe. Like I said just follow the data. Even this so called "deadly" Indian variant has been swiftly defeated.

Here's India vs the UK. As you can see the UK had a much larger case load. If India's resources were stretched for a short period it would be due to the lack of infrastructure compared to more developed countries.

As for Brazil the situation may not be ideal but it has done no worse than many other South American countries that imposed strict lockdowns so it is pretty obvious that lockdowns and masks are hardly a panacea and make little, if any, difference to the final outcome as far as deaths are concerned. They do destroy the livelihoods of many lower income groups and small businesses so the net loss is definitely palpable in these countries and it hits the most vulnerable the hardest.

Here's a tabulation of the worst hit countries since the pandemic began Brazil included. Lockdown or no lockdown there is no discernible difference that would prove statistically that lockdowns make any difference whatsoever. Obviously many other factors have far more of an influence.

Czechia had one of the strictest lockdowns and yet ended up on the top of the pile.

The Czech Republic Has the Highest COVID Mortality in the World, Despite Strict Lockdowns​

The dark and empty streets devoid of commerce have brought back memories of a past that many Czechs would sooner forget.

Wednesday, April 14, 2021​

Image Credit: Flickr | A.Davey | CC BY NC ND 2.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/)

Jon Miltimore​

Economics Lockdowns Czech Republic Coronavirus COVID-19 Europe Communism Socialism


On March 1, facing the highest COVID-19 infection rate in the world, the Czech Republic’s Prime Minister Andrej Babis introduced what was described as the strictest lockdown in the nation to date.
“People are banned from travelling within the country, between districts, and cannot visit one another,” Al Jazeera reported. “All retailers, except essential shops such as supermarkets, are closed.”
The coronavirus has been hard on everyone, but it has been particularly hard on the Czech Republic. The landlocked Central European nation has the highest COVID mortality rate of any country in the world with more than a million people, with 2,614 deaths per one million people.
The situation is bleak. Dozens of overwhelmed hospitals are on the verge of collapse, reports say, with many gravely ill patients unable to receive care because of a shortage of ICU beds and medical personnel. Hospitals have resorted to employing soldiers, firefighters, and other volunteers to stay operational because so many doctors and nurses have been pushed to the sidelines with illness and fatigue.
“My colleagues at the COVID units are exhausted,” Dr. Kateřina Steinbachová, a physician who works at a hospital in Litoměřice, recently told the Daily Beast. “They have been in it for a year and, in the last few months, have had to endure war-like situations.”

A Little Noticed Commemoration​

Church bells rang during a minute-long silence at noon last month in Prague’s Old Town Square, where a group had painted 25,000 white crosses. The ceremony was undertaken to commemorate the 25,000 Czechs who had died with the coronavirus over the last year.
Since that time, COVID-related deaths have increased to more than 28,000 deaths in the nation of 10.7 million. Relatively few outside of the Czech Republic have taken notice, however.
On Tuesday The Guardian published a piece not on the Czech Republic, where dozens of people die with COVID each day, but on Sweden, where daily deaths have slowed to a trickle.
“The Scandinavian country, which has opted against strict lockdowns but gradually ratcheted up its still mostly voluntary restrictions, has a seven-day average of 625 new infections per million people, according to ourworldindata.org,” the paper reports.
The Guardian is hardly alone. In contrast to the Czech Republic, Sweden has dominated global news headlines over the last year.

• “Sweden becomes an example of how not to handle COVID-19,” a CBS headline declared in July.
• “They are leading us to catastrophe,” The Guardian warned early in the pandemic.
• “Sweden Has Become the World's Cautionary Tale,” the New York Times announced last summer.
• “The Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster,” Time concluded in October.

Meanwhile, the Czech Republic’s struggles with the coronavirus have been largely overlooked. Data show, however, that its struggle with the coronavirus has been far worse.
The Czech Republic’s 2,614 deaths per million is nearly double that of Sweden, whose rate is 1,346 per million. As of April 10, Sweden’s 7-day rolling average daily deaths was 5; in the Czech Republic it was 115, more than 20 times higher.

Why Is Sweden Criticized More Than the Czech Republic?​

The question is, why has Sweden received so much more criticism than the Czech Republic? After all, like Sweden, critics blame the Czech government for the pandemic results.
“The Czech government has consistently showed incompetent leadership, failing to protect public health, governing through populism rather than taking on expert advice,” Jan Pačes of the Academy of Sciences recently told Al Jazeera.
The difference is the Czech Republic played by the script.
Unlike Sweden, who early in the pandemic announced it would forego a strict lockdown, for most of the last year Czechia operated under severe government restrictions. Currently, the nation has the second strictest lockdown in Europe, second only to Ireland, according to Our World in Data. But the lockdown isn’t new. For the last six months—since late October—the Czech Republic has operated under government restrictions that have grown steadily stricter.

Despite these actions, the virus continued to spread, spiking in December and February and into March.
Sweden was maligned because critics of its laissez-faire policy sought to make the case that Sweden was paying the price for not locking down, even though Sweden actually saw a lower overall mortality rate than most of Europe in 2020.


But the Czech Republic’s experience tells a different story—that lockdowns are ineffective at taming the virus. This is why its tragedy has been overlooked.

Getting Honest about Lockdowns​

For months, people have argued we must “follow the science” in designing policies that limit the spread of the coronavirus. Unfortunately, there’s been a widespread and ongoing attempt to overlook scientific data that show there is little correlation between government restrictions and the spread of the virus.
Fortunately, the empirical evidence is becoming increasingly difficult to ignore. In the US, for example, states such as Texas, Mississippi, and Oklahoma have seen their numbers continue to fall weeks after lifting all government restrictions. This was not what lockdown supporters predicted.
Meanwhile, many US states using government restrictions much like the Czech Republic’s have seen their numbers rising in recent weeks.
“Michigan has the highest new cases per capita in the nation, 72% greater than the next highest state,” CBS News reported this week. “Michigan's positivity rate is nearly three times more than the national average.”
This has political leaders perplexed.
"We are seeing a surge in Michigan despite the fact that we have some of the strongest policies in place, mask mandates, capacity limits, working from home," Gov. Gretchen Whitmer said in a TV interview.
Michigan is not alone. Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Illinois—all states with restrictive government policies—have seen cases rise sharply in recent weeks even as numbers in many open states continue to fall.
Following the science begins with being honest about the efficacy of lockdowns, which evidence shows come with severe unintended consequences. Few understand this better than the Czechs.

Unwelcome Déjà vu​

The dark and empty streets devoid of commerce have brought back memories from a chapter in recent history that many Czechs believed was over: the communist era.
“Boredom, anxiety and feelings of abandonment suffocated towns back then,” writes Czech reporter Eduard Freisler. “This past year, the string of restrictions, bans, curfews and lockdowns has brought back these unhappy memories for many Czechs.”
Tomáš Rektor, a psychotherapist interviewed by Freisler, said many of his older patients are depressed, noting that the last year has rekindled memories of the “Communist normalization.”
“They feel like they’re being swallowed by grayness,” says Rektor.
Monday brought signs of hope. Children under fifth grade returned to classrooms, travel restrictions were lifted, and a curfew was ended as lawmakers eased restrictions, the Associated Press reported.
Yet there are also ominous signs. Prime Minister Babis, a former officer of the Communist secret service police, remains a believer in lockdowns. In February, he suggested his primary mistake was to briefly open the economy during the Christmas season.
The situation has some Czechs concerned that the people have learned the wrong lessons during the pandemic.
“I am worried that in the post-COVID era, a good enough number of Czechs will want the government to keep helping them,” Pavel Žáček, a former director of the Institute for the Study of Totalitarian Regimes, told Freisler, “and the country will shift towards socialism again.”

 

[dredd]

India has done fine compared to Europe. Like I said just follow the data. Even this so called "deadly" Indian variant has been swiftly defeated.

Here's India vs the UK. As you can see the UK had a much larger case load. If India's resources were stretched for a short period it would be due to the lack of infrastructure compared to more developed countries.

View attachment 114630

As for Brazil the situation may not be ideal but it has done no worse than many other South American countries that imposed strict lockdowns so it is pretty obvious that lockdowns and masks are hardly a panacea and make little, if any, difference to the final outcome as far as deaths are concerned. They do destroy the livelihoods of many lower income groups and small businesses so the net loss is definitely palpable in these countries and it hits the most vulnerable the hardest.

Here's a tabulation of the worst hit countries since the pandemic began Brazil included. Lockdown or no lockdown there is no discernible difference that would prove statistically that lockdowns make any difference whatsoever. Obviously many other factors have far more of an influence.

Czechia had one of the strictest lockdowns and yet ended up on the top of the pile.


View attachment 114631

The Czech Republic Has the Highest COVID Mortality in the World, Despite Strict Lockdowns​

The dark and empty streets devoid of commerce have brought back memories of a past that many Czechs would sooner forget.

Wednesday, April 14, 2021​

Image Credit: Flickr | A.Davey | CC BY NC ND 2.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/)

Jon Miltimore​

Economics Lockdowns Czech Republic Coronavirus COVID-19 Europe Communism Socialism


On March 1, facing the highest COVID-19 infection rate in the world, the Czech Republic’s Prime Minister Andrej Babis introduced what was described as the strictest lockdown in the nation to date.
“People are banned from travelling within the country, between districts, and cannot visit one another,” Al Jazeera reported. “All retailers, except essential shops such as supermarkets, are closed.”
The coronavirus has been hard on everyone, but it has been particularly hard on the Czech Republic. The landlocked Central European nation has the highest COVID mortality rate of any country in the world with more than a million people, with 2,614 deaths per one million people.
The situation is bleak. Dozens of overwhelmed hospitals are on the verge of collapse, reports say, with many gravely ill patients unable to receive care because of a shortage of ICU beds and medical personnel. Hospitals have resorted to employing soldiers, firefighters, and other volunteers to stay operational because so many doctors and nurses have been pushed to the sidelines with illness and fatigue.
“My colleagues at the COVID units are exhausted,” Dr. Kateřina Steinbachová, a physician who works at a hospital in Litoměřice, recently told the Daily Beast. “They have been in it for a year and, in the last few months, have had to endure war-like situations.”

A Little Noticed Commemoration​

Church bells rang during a minute-long silence at noon last month in Prague’s Old Town Square, where a group had painted 25,000 white crosses. The ceremony was undertaken to commemorate the 25,000 Czechs who had died with the coronavirus over the last year.
Since that time, COVID-related deaths have increased to more than 28,000 deaths in the nation of 10.7 million. Relatively few outside of the Czech Republic have taken notice, however.
On Tuesday The Guardian published a piece not on the Czech Republic, where dozens of people die with COVID each day, but on Sweden, where daily deaths have slowed to a trickle.
“The Scandinavian country, which has opted against strict lockdowns but gradually ratcheted up its still mostly voluntary restrictions, has a seven-day average of 625 new infections per million people, according to ourworldindata.org,” the paper reports.
The Guardian is hardly alone. In contrast to the Czech Republic, Sweden has dominated global news headlines over the last year.

• “Sweden becomes an example of how not to handle COVID-19,” a CBS headline declared in July.
• “They are leading us to catastrophe,” The Guardian warned early in the pandemic.
• “Sweden Has Become the World's Cautionary Tale,” the New York Times announced last summer.
• “The Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster,” Time concluded in October.

Meanwhile, the Czech Republic’s struggles with the coronavirus have been largely overlooked. Data show, however, that its struggle with the coronavirus has been far worse.
The Czech Republic’s 2,614 deaths per million is nearly double that of Sweden, whose rate is 1,346 per million. As of April 10, Sweden’s 7-day rolling average daily deaths was 5; in the Czech Republic it was 115, more than 20 times higher.

Why Is Sweden Criticized More Than the Czech Republic?​

The question is, why has Sweden received so much more criticism than the Czech Republic? After all, like Sweden, critics blame the Czech government for the pandemic results.
“The Czech government has consistently showed incompetent leadership, failing to protect public health, governing through populism rather than taking on expert advice,” Jan Pačes of the Academy of Sciences recently told Al Jazeera.
The difference is the Czech Republic played by the script.
Unlike Sweden, who early in the pandemic announced it would forego a strict lockdown, for most of the last year Czechia operated under severe government restrictions. Currently, the nation has the second strictest lockdown in Europe, second only to Ireland, according to Our World in Data. But the lockdown isn’t new. For the last six months—since late October—the Czech Republic has operated under government restrictions that have grown steadily stricter.

Despite these actions, the virus continued to spread, spiking in December and February and into March.
Sweden was maligned because critics of its laissez-faire policy sought to make the case that Sweden was paying the price for not locking down, even though Sweden actually saw a lower overall mortality rate than most of Europe in 2020.


But the Czech Republic’s experience tells a different story—that lockdowns are ineffective at taming the virus. This is why its tragedy has been overlooked.

Getting Honest about Lockdowns​

For months, people have argued we must “follow the science” in designing policies that limit the spread of the coronavirus. Unfortunately, there’s been a widespread and ongoing attempt to overlook scientific data that show there is little correlation between government restrictions and the spread of the virus.
Fortunately, the empirical evidence is becoming increasingly difficult to ignore. In the US, for example, states such as Texas, Mississippi, and Oklahoma have seen their numbers continue to fall weeks after lifting all government restrictions. This was not what lockdown supporters predicted.
Meanwhile, many US states using government restrictions much like the Czech Republic’s have seen their numbers rising in recent weeks.
“Michigan has the highest new cases per capita in the nation, 72% greater than the next highest state,” CBS News reported this week. “Michigan's positivity rate is nearly three times more than the national average.”
This has political leaders perplexed.
"We are seeing a surge in Michigan despite the fact that we have some of the strongest policies in place, mask mandates, capacity limits, working from home," Gov. Gretchen Whitmer said in a TV interview.
Michigan is not alone. Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Illinois—all states with restrictive government policies—have seen cases rise sharply in recent weeks even as numbers in many open states continue to fall.
Following the science begins with being honest about the efficacy of lockdowns, which evidence shows come with severe unintended consequences. Few understand this better than the Czechs.

Unwelcome Déjà vu​

The dark and empty streets devoid of commerce have brought back memories from a chapter in recent history that many Czechs believed was over: the communist era.
“Boredom, anxiety and feelings of abandonment suffocated towns back then,” writes Czech reporter Eduard Freisler. “This past year, the string of restrictions, bans, curfews and lockdowns has brought back these unhappy memories for many Czechs.”
Tomáš Rektor, a psychotherapist interviewed by Freisler, said many of his older patients are depressed, noting that the last year has rekindled memories of the “Communist normalization.”
“They feel like they’re being swallowed by grayness,” says Rektor.
Monday brought signs of hope. Children under fifth grade returned to classrooms, travel restrictions were lifted, and a curfew was ended as lawmakers eased restrictions, the Associated Press reported.
Yet there are also ominous signs. Prime Minister Babis, a former officer of the Communist secret service police, remains a believer in lockdowns. In February, he suggested his primary mistake was to briefly open the economy during the Christmas season.
The situation has some Czechs concerned that the people have learned the wrong lessons during the pandemic.
“I am worried that in the post-COVID era, a good enough number of Czechs will want the government to keep helping them,” Pavel Žáček, a former director of the Institute for the Study of Totalitarian Regimes, told Freisler, “and the country will shift towards socialism again.”

You are living in a world of your own, much like the frog in the well who looks up from a well and thinks the sky is that big. If you have friends and loved ones in India and Brazil or anywhere where the disease is raging, they will tell u a different story. All will be critical of their governments of not imposing stricter restrictions.

Here in Bangkok, people are really hungry for vaccines and every thai I know will have something bad to say about the current government with regards to COVID19 and vaccines. Cases have spiked n the number of deaths have gone up.

In Sinkieland, people have it good. Vaccines are readily available n cases are low. You are talking with an air of complacency because the disease is not rampant. Like I've said in my earlier posts, people here will sing a different tune when they personally get the disease n is lying in a hospital fighting to breathe. Let's see how critical they will be about restrictions and life-saving vaccines then...

 

[Leongsam]

You are living in a world of your own, much like the frog in the well who looks up from a well and thinks the sky is that big. If you have friends and loved ones in India and Brazil or anywhere where the disease is raging, they will tell u a different story. All will be critical of their governments of not imposing stricter restrictions.

Here in Bangkok, people are really hungry for vaccines and every thai I know will have something bad to say about the current government with regards to COVID19 and vaccines. Cases have spiked n the number of deaths have gone up.

In Sinkieland, people have it good. Vaccines are readily available n cases are low. You are talking with an air of complacency because the disease is not rampant. Like I've said in my earlier posts, people here will sing a different tune when they personally get the disease n is lying in a hospital fighting to breathe. Let's see how critical they will be about restrictions and life-saving vaccines then...

I had a serious bout of flu in the mid 90s. In fact I had "long" flu. No government locked down for me despite the fact that flu has been killing hundreds of thousands annually for a long, long time.

What's so special about a Covid death? It's the fact that the constant barrage of fear mongering is making a bunch of people a shitload of money.

Nobody is suggesting that Covid has not been a tragedy for those that have succumbed. All I've ever been hoping for is a sensible response that's proportionate to the risk. Instead the whole response has been hijacked by those who have the power to control and profit from the narrative they put out and people have been far too trusting of authority.

 

[dredd]

Judging from the tragedies around the world concerning COVID19 from start to present day stability, the response has been more than sensible and proportionate. We now have life-saving vaccines, rapid testing and medication to mitigate the seriousness of the disease. We should be thankful.

No where is the difference of the result of COVID19 been more stark then in the US between the attitude of the former president and the present one. When your favourite president was Trump, someone you adore because his stupidity matches yours, COVID threatened to kill almost half of all Americans because of his stupidity and lack of leadership. Thankfully, the present president believes in science and this has resulted in the drastic drop of infections and death. More than half of Americans are now vaccinated and clearly this is key to normality. I don't usually put up data to prove this or anything because truth doesn't need convincing, but you get the picture...

COVID19 has shown us that attitudes and actions in a pandemic can result in a life and death situation. Thankfully the majority of us are sensible enough to choose science and life over the conspiracy theories of small minded people. We even have one forummer here going by the moniker of Tobelight who actually wished more people to die from vaccination to just prove he is right. (He is wrong of course). I mean how farked up of a loser you have to be to hide behind a keyboard and spread all kinds of falsehoods and peddle in fear mongering, even wishing people to die to prove your falsehood and lies are true.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

You are living in a world of your own, much like the frog in the well who looks up from a well and thinks the sky is that big. If you have friends and loved ones in India and Brazil or anywhere where the disease is raging, they will tell u a different story. All will be critical of their governments of not imposing stricter restrictions.

Here in Bangkok, people are really hungry for vaccines and every thai I know will have something bad to say about the current government with regards to COVID19 and vaccines. Cases have spiked n the number of deaths have gone up.

In Sinkieland, people have it good. Vaccines are readily available n cases are low. You are talking with an air of complacency because the disease is not rampant. Like I've said in my earlier posts, people here will sing a different tune when they personally get the disease n is lying in a hospital fighting to breathe. Let's see how critical they will be about restrictions and life-saving vaccines then...

I have decided to stop arguing with Leongsam on this topic.

I will enjoy my mRNA vaccine to the fullest. It will coast through my veins and stoke my ribosomes to produce new proteins both wonderous and strange.

 

[Leongsam]

Judging from the tragedies around the world concerning COVID19 from start to present day stability, the response has been more than sensible and proportionate. We now have life-saving vaccines, rapid testing and medication to mitigate the seriousness of the disease. We should be thankful.

No where is the difference of the result of COVID19 been more stark then in the US between the attitude of the former president and the present one. When your favourite president was Trump, someone you adore because his stupidity matches yours, COVID threatened to kill almost half of all Americans because of his stupidity and lack of leadership. Thankfully, the present president believes in science and this has resulted in the drastic drop of infections and death. More than half of Americans are now vaccinated and clearly this is key to normality. I don't usually put up data to prove this or anything because truth doesn't need convincing, but you get the picture...

COVID19 has shown us that attitudes and actions in a pandemic can result in a life and death situation. Thankfully the majority of us are sensible enough to choose science and life over the conspiracy theories of small minded people. We even have one forummer here going by the moniker of Tobelight who actually wished more people to die from vaccination to just prove he is right. (He is wrong of course). I mean how farked up of a loser you have to be to hide behind a keyboard and spread all kinds of falsehoods and peddle in fear mongering, even wishing people to die to prove your falsehood and lies are true.

Your comments regarding the USA starkly reveal your ignorance of the whole Covid situation.

Neither President had much control over the response because measures taken are formulated and implemented at state and municipal level. When Trump banned flights from certain countries he was labelled a racist. Nancy Pelosi went to Chinatown in Feb 2020 and urged everyone not to fear Covid and to party to their hearts content. As time went by and things became serious each state proceeded to formulate their responses.

Florida opened up in way back in September 2020 and continued to remain open when Biden took over. Texas opened in April 2021 when Biden was trying to mask everyone up. Many other states had already dumped restrictions by then.

Overall the response in the USA has been a mixed bag since day one simply because power is so decentralised in the US system. Orders from the White house can be disregarded by states and overridden by the courts so let's not split hairs regarding who did what.

However all I can say is that the statistics point to the fact that battle between lockdown jurisdictions vs freedom jurisdictions has no winner because there is no statistically significant difference in the outcomes. Where there was a difference was not in the case counts but in the economic impact.

As for vaccines nobody has said they don't work. However they have been shown to kill so it's up to each individual to weigh the odds. The jury is out as to exactly how safe they are over the long term because never in the course of human history has new technology been approved so quickly and dispensed across the world so rapidly. It's a leap of faith nothing more, nothing less.

Those who warn about the dangers have the same right to voice their concerns as those that vouch for their safety. That's how informed choices are made. Time will reveal the risk vs benefits numbers. At the moment we can only hope for the best.

You keep talking about science so I have to point out that way back in 2020 the science had already indicated that lockdowns and masks achieved little compared to the damage done. It is those jurisdictions that decided on a light touch which followed the science. Those that took draconian measures to curb liberties were the ones ignoring the data.

 

[Leongsam]

I have decided to stop arguing with Leongsam on this topic.

I will enjoy my mRNA vaccine to the fullest. It will coast through my veins and stoke my ribosomes to produce new proteins both wonderous and strange.

You have made your choice and good on you for being decisive. However bear in mind that there are others who have lost loved ones unnecessarily because they trusted the vaccine. Everyone had different life experiences which color their view of the world.

 

[batman1]

I am always right.

Did u get advice from some "experts" that lockdown is useless.

 

[Leongsam]

Did u get advice from some "experts" that lockdown is useless.

No I just looked at the data and did my own sums and I could do that objectively without having to resort to modelling and choosing parameters in order to obtain the desired outcome demanded of me from my superiors.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Your comments regarding the USA starkly reveal your ignorance of the whole Covid situation.

Neither President had much control over the response because measures taken are formulated and implemented at state and municipal level. When Trump banned flights from certain countries he was labelled a racist. Nancy Pelosi went to Chinatown in Feb 2020 and urged everyone not to fear Covid and to party to their hearts content. As time went by and things became serious each state proceeded to formulate their responses.

Florida opened up in way back in September 2020 and continued to remain open when Biden took over. Texas opened in April 2021 when Biden was trying to mask everyone up. Many other states had already dumped restrictions by then.

Overall the response in the USA has been a mixed bag since day one simply because power is so decentralised in the US system. Orders from the White house can be disregarded by states and overridden by the courts so let's not split hairs regarding who did what.

However all I can say is that the statistics point to the fact that battle between lockdown jurisdictions vs freedom jurisdictions has no winner because there is no statistically significant difference in the outcomes. Where there was a difference was not in the case counts but in the economic impact.

As for vaccines nobody has said they don't work. However they have been shown to kill so it's up to each individual to weigh the odds. The jury is out as to exactly how safe they are over the long term because never in the course of human history has new technology been approved so quickly and dispensed across the world so rapidly. It's a leap of faith nothing more, nothing less.

Those who warn about the dangers have the same right to voice their concerns as those that vouch for their safety. That's how informed choices are made. Time will reveal the risk vs benefits numbers. At the moment we can only hope for the best.

You keep talking about science so I have to point out that way back in 2020 the science had already indicated that lockdowns and masks achieved little compared to the damage done. It is those jurisdictions that decided on a light touch which followed the science. Those that took draconian measures to curb liberties were the ones ignoring the data.

Donald Trump screwed up the entire pandemic response. Only after Biden came in did they start to import huge amounts of vaccines and roll them out aggressively.

To say that it is all up to state level is disingenuous. There must be leadership from the WH. Trump provided none. Biden provided leadership in spades.

Conservative states see the worst outbreaks with highest case rates and fatalities because they refused to follow Biden after Biden took power. By contrast, Democratic states were led well by Biden

 

[Leongsam]

Donald Trump screwed up the entire pandemic response. Only after Biden came in did they start to import huge amounts of vaccines and roll them out aggressively.

To say that it is all up to state level is disingenuous. There must be leadership from the WH. Trump provided none. Biden provided leadership in spades.

Conservative states see the worst outbreaks with highest case rates and fatalities because they refused to follow Biden after Biden took power. By contrast, Democratic states were led well by Biden

Gee I wonder why Trump didn't roll out any vaccines.