Church leader gets $500k

[Naturefarm2]

That's the apologetics used by some.

I hate apologetics - it starts from an ending position and argue its way to the front.

And turn what is man-serving into God-serving.



To answer your question on "how can a poor man give and bless others", i point you to three examples:

(1) Jesus: "Foxes have holes and birds have nests. The Son of Man has no place to lay his head";

(2) Peter: "Silver and Gold have I none. But what I have, I give to you. In the name of Jesus, get up and walk"

(3) Paul: "For to me to live is Christ and to die is gain"

Compare therefore these three men who did not earn $500,000, live in luxurious condos and drive $300,000 cars and ask yourself what sort of blessings had they given to others?

Btw, these people live 2000 years ago...

 

[kakowi]

Hi kakowi.
Well, its very obvious we deserve that type of reward, isnt it? Do not tell me is the cleaner at the toilet?
This whole business is about demand and supply. if there is a demand of god words, there is supply of $$ so that they can be part of it. Just look at the crowd at CHC or NCC and the old family church and you find the different. If the teenages or Gen X need this kind of attraction to attract them to the church, then be it. Its like open a Super store, the main focus is not to tell the whole world that you have the best store or the cheapest sales, its getting the crowd to come to your store first. if no people come to your store, your message will not be getting over to anyone, isnt it?

Jesus has plenty of demand today.

So is he concerned about $$$?

 

[kakowi]

Btw, these people live 2000 years ago...

So are you saying that if Jesus is alive as a man today, he will reward himself with $500,000 in salary?

Sell his sermons on the mount for $50 a dvd?

And in each sermon, tell the listeners to buy the dvd? Not once, but advertise every 15 minutes.


Naturefarm2, Jesus drove out the merchants from his father's house even though these merchants serve a purpose and the priests benefit.

 

[TeeKee]

time for career change!!!
$$$ is god!!!

not easy to become a pastor.

once the people knows you are talk cock, your cover will be immediately blown...

worse, God may strike you with some PAP jolts..

you dare?

i agree to benefit oneself using God's name is no good.

But hey, who am i to judge? we are all sinners....

 

[JPMorgan888]

Perhaps, but doesn't everyone have the right to choose? If these people want to follow Prince and donate tithes and offerings of their own volition, who are we to judge.

Typical PAP response. You work for IDA right?

If TT Durai decides to give 10 cents per donation dollar to charity then who are we to judge?

If NCC earns 55 million for 2007-08 and spend 660 million to build lifestyle complex who are we to judge?

Careful. Religions have no loyalty to state. Ask the moslems.

 

[Tuna Singh]

Wah, $500K a year for a commonwealth secondary school graduate ! Study so much for what, better become pastor

 

[Naturefarm2]

So are you saying that if Jesus is alive as a man today, he will reward himself with $500,000 in salary?

Sell his sermons on the mount for $50 a dvd?

And in each sermon, tell the listeners to buy the dvd? Not once, but advertise every 15 minutes.


Naturefarm2, Jesus drove out the merchants from his father's house even though these merchants serve a purpose and the priests benefit.

Are you jesus? Nobody will know what he will do right? What he do 2000 years ago do not prove that what he will do in 2009 right. Indeed Jesue worth alot in the brand equity. Isnt it that all of them make million using his word?

 

[denzuko1]

Are you jesus? Nobody will know what he will do right? What he do 2000 years ago do not prove that what he will do in 2009 right. Indeed Jesue worth alot in the brand equity. Isnt it that all of them make million using his word?

I think he will most likely own Ikea.

 

[SIFU]

Are you jesus? Nobody will know what he will do right? What he do 2000 years ago do not prove that what he will do in 2009 right. Indeed Jesue worth alot in the brand equity. Isnt it that all of them make million using his word?

if jesus lived today, he would be nothing more than just another magician..

 

[Naturefarm2]

if jesus lived today, he would be nothing more than just another magician..

kakowi will kill you for this..haha

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Yes, but then again we are presently living in a world where you need money to live and do just about anything.

By the way, God need no money. People do.

 

[commoner]

people need money to live,,, accept that
but $500,000 a year???

 

[Naturefarm2]

So are you saying that if Jesus is alive as a man today, he will reward himself with $500,000 in salary?

Sell his sermons on the mount for $50 a dvd?

And in each sermon, tell the listeners to buy the dvd? Not once, but advertise every 15 minutes.


Naturefarm2, Jesus drove out the merchants from his father's house even though these merchants serve a purpose and the priests benefit.

Both Joseph and Mary came from the Davidic line meaning they may have had wealthy families. Jesus was born in a manger was because there was no room at the inn, not because they did not have money for the inn. The wise men that visited the baby Jesus were not only three but many because they were travelling for two years by caravan to find him. They probably gave Jesus’ family a large sum of gold and gifts. who will so bo liao to track him down and just leave like that after saying he is the king. Surely they will leave down their namecard or contact in case next time he become king , can become his supplier or whatever.

Jesus’ ministry. Old Testament says that a rich man does not follow a poor man and since Peter was rich, a fisherman with a business, they would not have followed a poor Jesus. “a rich man follows a rich man, a poor man follows a rich man, but a rich man never follows a poor man”. Jesus, he said, could not have been looking filthy and raggety to call his apostles, he was wearing “an Armani suit”.

The sandals Jesus wore being a sign of wealth and also of the fact that Jesus and his apostles had a treasurer, Judas. They would not have needed a treasurer if they did not have money.

 

[Harry Lee]

I know a pastor from KL who gave up a comfortable life so that he could work with drug addicts and prostitutes.

One day, pimps of the prostitutes he had helped wanted to attack him. He ran and came to Singapore to hide. A Methodist church in the Geylang area gave him refuge. But they were not aware that the pastor did not have enough money to buy food even, and they did not offer him any food.

Faced with hunger, he could nothing but pray. Strangely, a youth appeared at his door and offered some food to him.

This pastor is back in KL. He is still preaching to the prostitutes. He is still poor.

Which sane person wants his brand of Christianity?

 

[commoner]

Jesus definitely not rich during his ministry,,,,

up in the hills, no food, followers got hungry, he did not tell his CFO to withdraw money to buy McDonalds for everyone,,,,, instead he took 2 bread and 5 fish to feed them,,,,

or at the wedding, he did not buy bulk or pop don perignon for everyone, just turn water to Rothschild 1986.....

he definitely did not have 500,000 pieces of silver a year for his annual salary

 

[Naturefarm2]

I know a pastor from KL who gave up a comfortable life so that he could work with drug addicts and prostitutes.

One day, pimps of the prostitutes he had helped wanted to attack him. He ran and came to Singapore to hide. A Methodist church in the Geylang area gave him refuge. But they were not aware that the pastor did not have enough money to buy food even, and they did not offer him any food.

Faced with hunger, he could nothing but pray. Strangely, a youth appeared at his door and offered some food to him.

This pastor is back in KL. He is still preaching to the prostitutes. He is still poor.

Which sane person wants his brand of Christianity?

he will think that he is doing this for God. The suffering convince him that he is godly. In then end, who do he help? The pimp or the whores? By hiding here and there, how about his family? How about his parent? Who is really suffering because of his deed.
Sometime all these people will do everything to help others but never really look at their own life.

 

[shelltox]

It is more easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye than a rich man to go to heaven.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Well I base my opinion on the fact that the congregation understands and knows what is going on in the church, financials and all.

I am surprised to hear that the congregations in NCC and CHC are not aware of the financials. Well if not, more fool them, they should ask before opening their pockets to donate tithes and offerings. No one is forcing or coercing them to donate, it is up to them, they are grown mature adults, they have a choice they should exercise reason before donating. If in fact there is fraud and deceit involved, then the authorities should do their job.

I personally find churches like NCC and CHC distasteful and obscene, however I also hold the view of caveat emptor. The individual must be responsible for their own choices.

Oh and I have no doubt PAP have been monitoring people like Prince and Kong Hee as they are the new charismatic demagogues, however like you said these chaps do not appear to threaten PAP as they just provide 'chicken noodle soup for the soul'.

Have to disagree with you bro.

To me this is no different to NKF run by Durai or Raffles Town Club run by the previous gang of 4 or now the gang of 2.

The bulk of the congregation has no clue what top man and the top people make. They will be shocked just as Singapore were shocked when less than 10 cents from the dollar went to kidney patients. They honestly believe that the church belongs to god and they are joint beneficiary to all its assets.

I still know couple of high ranking people that think they own part of Raffles Town Club like Tanglin or SCC.

In the US, the bible belt runs right thru the least educated part of the country and the reason is obvious.

I am aware there are Perm Sec and Sr individuals that are in these chuches and are none the wiser.

In fact one very Sr Person was charged in court many years for defrauding on invoices on behalf of the church. Poor lady had to go to jail.

I know the PAP finds this ideal as these are apolitical and the congregation are like sheep because they know the tax regime can be changed at any moment. Ever see any of these churches involved in human rights etc.

 

[JohnTT]

Another NKF, sucking people money.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

You are partially right. $$$ is important to get things done. However M Teresa did not just pray, she was also a lady of action.

You have your point. what i mean is that now, you need $$ to do anything.
If you want to save someone , help the poor, sponsor the poor student to continue his/her study, provide home for the aged. Where do we get money from? Pray like mother teresa? How many people can she help?