• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Church leader gets $500k

He deserves all the money he gets. He can convince people to part with their money. You can do or not?

It is those people, who do absolutely nothing, speak nonsense everyday, state the obvious, obtained their position through connections, that don't deserve their million dollar salaries.
 
1. I rather not speculate and go down the path of conjecture and rash emotion. Get the facts straight first.

2. Please go check with lawyers on this one. I think you are under a misconception on this one.

3. Well then the public needs to decide which way to go on this one, as in all other aspects of society.

1.Compliance or non compliance are not issues because implementation of the law without hindrance or partisanship must first be observed and this is the issue and especially so in a society such as sg.

2.Take note that lying to a minister or misleading the public is a punishable, criminal offence but Durai was not charged under any one of these laws. He clearly misled the ministers and the public in terms of the number of patients the NKF had, the subsidies the patients received and how the donations were spent.

3.The sg society is SICK to the core. ONe cannot truly be true to say that the laws or society within or without the law will act in such a manner as to right wrongs on their own. The seeds have been sown by the pappies and watered by sinkies and then even more by the pappies.
 
Ok, well I have only mingled with afew members of NCC and CHC so perhaps I am mistaken. But you are right, they appear to attract the entrepreneurial and driven crowd perhaps the same groups attracted to Adam Khoo and Clemen Chiang:rolleyes::D Wonder if Adam and Clemen are part of their congregation?:p

I recall a couple of Sundays ago I read in the Sunday Times an article on a well known commercial photographer/director who has fallen on hard times because of the recession. But what really caught my eye was that he mentioned his church was now helping him ride out the hard times and that he was happy with God, oh not forgetting that he still had a bungalow and a merc.:rolleyes: The church was either NCC or CHC.

I guess to them God's teachings are mainly about prosperity and success.

When I mentioned the bible belt, I mentioned "uneducated" but I did not mention "poor". New Age churches thrive on hardworking and driven people. They target this lot - nice clothes, nice and expensive musical instruments, nice locations, everything new.

Have to disagree on the educated lot attending NCC and CHC. Most of them are hardworking got degrees not from the mainstream institutions. There are exceptions of course. By the way, there are lots of PHDs - mostly from paper mills in their congregation.

Believe me they are not supid but definately hardworking.

Hillsong in Australia is one of the best known. They target the rich but not necessarily the educated. There is a difference and it is not fine line that separates the 2.

I do concede one thing though, they all speak well.
 
I guess to them God's teachings are mainly about prosperity and success.

In fact, that is probably the good part of new age church. You are driven to success. Tradtional churches and religiobs tend to encourage people to accept their fate in life but continue their faith in god.
 
That is why one should always beware of demagogues;)
Its eems to me. The CEO and all the blar blar and the church leader have a thing in common.

They are like motivating speakers..

It pay well if you always give people hope. But the hope is always 2 steps ahead.


paster, minister, ceo all same lah..

Poor jesus and buddha... kana abuse
 
The truth shall set you free;)
He deserves all the money he gets. He can convince people to part with their money. You can do or not?

It is those people, who do absolutely nothing, speak nonsense everyday, state the obvious, obtained their position through connections, that don't deserve their million dollar salaries.
 
Good insight here Bro. But then again I always tell people who only pray hard to also keep in mind that "god help's those who help themselves":)
In fact, that is probably the good part of new age church. You are driven to success. Tradtional churches and religiobs tend to encourage people to accept their fate in life but continue their faith in god.
 
Good insight here Bro. But then again I always tell people who only pray hard to also keep in mind that "god help's those who help themselves":)


correction , nobody can help you not even " god " . only you can help yourself ....when you are left with no food to eat , dont tell me " god " drop food from heaven for you ? " god cant even build his own church , need human to raise fund ....hahaha . god is so powerful but yet he cant handle money ...now start thinking .....
 
Organized religion: The world's largest pyramid scheme.
In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination. now start thinking ......
 
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact than a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
 
All religious groups always expect the leader to work for FREE....
Donations is always on your ability to contribute...

As long as you are happy to contribute, & the funds are channel with HIGHEST LEVEL OF INTEGRITY & FOR THE BENEFIT OF HUMAN KINDS...I am for it...

I always preach...IF EVERYBODY TAKES CARE OF THEIR OWN FAMILY, THERE IS LITTLE DEPENDENT ON CHARITY....

.....PLEASE CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR OWN FAMILY FIRST....

:)MUM & DAD..I WILL BANK MY $$$ in your account now...BYE...
 
Perhaps...but then again dead men tell no tales;)
Organized religion: The world's largest pyramid scheme.
In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination. now start thinking ......
 
Home > ST Forum > Online Story
Leaders of charities should be paid well too

I REFER to Monday's report, "$500,000 pay for New Creation Church leader", about the salary of Senior Pastor Joseph Prince.
Our society seems to have developed this mentality that certain professions - particularly charities and other do-ers of good - should not be paid well. I do not understand this sentiment.

Charities, just like other organisations, need to attract talented people to serve as their leaders. If charity executives were paid poorly, we would be left with poorly run charities - and our precious dollars would be inefficiently used.

Of course, it is important for charities to be properly regulated to ensure they are not financially mismanaged. But why should we have a society where only lawyers, doctors and bankers are paid handsomely?

Siddharth George
 
kjks

Today, 07:46 AM

Indeed well paid. But not obscenely paid. Even in 'private sector' the calls for less obscene pay is also valid. Why should CEOs of banks be paid such obscene salaries?
Church leaders should be paid say, 30% to 50% more than the average salary of their congregation. Then of course we will have pastors only preaching and scaring the very rich!
Christ resist all temptation during the 40 day fast ........ that is the example to follow. How much was Paul and Peter paid?


jchlee

Today, 09:40 AM

of course, spiritual leaders and charity leaders should be paid reasonably well. Well enough to provie them with a sufficiently comfortable lifestyle so that they will not give in to temptations or have to worry about their livelihood.

however, there is a gulf between reasonable and the obscene. i would like to believe that these religious leaders or charity leaders chose this path due to a sincere and honest desire to serve the community and NOT because the job pays half a million a year.

frankly, when they spend their time on such spiritual and/or community events, what use do they have for half a million dollars? Take it to their graves???

A more appropriate way to look at this would be, if the establishment bears the costs of living such as accomodation, a car for daily transportation needs, etc, these would amount to no more than perhaps 10K-15K a month. add maybe 5K for other living expenses or needs, this amounts to no more than 20K a month. in a year, it would be half the 500K that was reported.

I believe many, if not all readers would agree that 20K a month puts you in a more than decent standard of living. especially when more than half of singaporeans are earning below the 100K per annum threshold.

in this case, it is my view that the 500K amount is definately excessive.


steamroller

Today, 10:04 AM

When spiritual leader takes $500,000 to $550,000 from the donations it is considered perfectly transparent and OK. How come when TT Duri took $600,000 a year it was considered too much?

We always forget that salary is paid for work done with economic value in a business entity. The amount is propotionate to the contributions of its generated values. The society is too shy to put a cap of public fund be it in the form of listed company or charity.

When money comes from church members to be used for charitable purposes why should church leaders take so much if church leaders truly believe in God and doing is work.

mbkho

Today, 10:30 AM

jchlee, I fully agree with you. Siddharth seems to have confused the issue by assuming a all or nothing approach. Poorly paid or well paid. The thing is, we are talking charitable organisation. So paying the head of the organisation something reasonable and using the excess for charitable purposes is in line with the objective of "charity". If such head can drive a Nissan Sunny, live in a nice HDB flat, afford to take the family on a few vacations - approximate to any middle class family - that very acceptable. In contrast, why does the head need a sum of money that enables buying a Ferrari, 4 Seasons condo and 1st class air tickets for all the expensive vacations to St Moritz and Tahiti...?

Another fallacy in Siddharth's letter - just because the head is paid (I won't say poorly) a reasonable amount, that does not mean that the job will be poorly done. His argument is non sequiter.


mbkho

Today, 10:40 AM

Another point, just because the "commercial" and "business" focused lawyers, doctors, bankers are paid handsomely cannot justify why the charitable worker should similarly be paid handsomely. Morally, to do charity is to do good for others for the sake of helping others - it is a calling, it is not for profit. By extension of Siddharth's reasoning, "charity" will be subverted such that charitable work will (only) be done (well) if the charitable worker is paid well. And so, if we don't pay them handsomely, they will stop helping the unfortunate and/or do a lousy job helping the unfortunate? This is a dangerous and slippery slope that must be avoided at all costs - linking charity to money income of the charitable worker (in the name of "attracting talent" which would otherwise go somewhere else - a familiar argument which is completely inapplicable to charities).
 
colugo111

Today, 11:24 AM

Why is New Creation Church considered a charity? It does not take donations from the public like NKF. If the congregation wants their leader to be highly paid, why not? The public should refrain from interfering with its internal affairs, after all the public don't give a single cent to the church.


kenaspammed

Today, 11:30 AM

they do not call themselves a charity

the word 'charity' is by legal definition in singapore law classifying them as charity - the name is stuck onto them by operation of law......not that they want to be a charity...they are registered with Registrar of Societies like for example PAP is.

MinJing70

Today, 11:39 AM

Yes, it's a calling, not a job that you primarily seek for material gains. Definitely, charity workers, CEOs as normal surviving human beings need to be paid in order to be well taken care of in the material and practical sense. The pay packet of a CEO from a commercial group cannot be compared to a CEO in a charitable organisation, for the basic fact that the objectives are different. However, the pay to a charity worker should be reasonable in order that he/she must not feel the stress of practical living is distracting him/her from doing the job well. Having said that, living in Singapore is not stressful if one does not have a 6-figure pay.


commentator_sc

Today, 12:12 PM
Once you equate a CEO of a charity or religious entity with that of a commercial profit making/oriented organisation you are guilty of duplicity and sliding down the very slippery slope of moral confusion, decay and quagmire. Remember this saying from the bible:

FOR the love of money is the root of all evil. Contemplate on that and Christ's life as model, oh, all ye so-called followers of his. Is He not the means to YOUR OWN ends as things now stand?

IMO, all this focus and attention is self-serving - the ST is highlighting this on behalf of the govt whose ministers have come under fire from Singaporeans for the astronomic salary they have decided to pay themselves. The ST is trying to show that: Hey! Look, who isn't putting his hands into the till when there is plenty to go around! However, how all this is going to justify their position is beyond a great many of us.

I am sure the President Obama of the US is an unpopular role model as far as the Singapore cabinet is concerned because he is showing up all those excesses that all these decades of unrestraint capitalism have wrought to the US economy.



crazyzyzy

Today, 12:23 PM
"But why should we have a society where only lawyers, doctors and bankers are paid handsomely?"

Simply because they do not preach. They do it openly. They are answerable to their professions and also subjec to the scrutiny of the public no less.



robertpclim

Today, 12:25 PM
The question of how much one is paid is very subjective. It can never satisfy the critics who are envious and begrude someone being highly paid. JP bless the NCC congregation with immense wealth and health. In this respect the congregation bless the NCC with hugh sum of money. The NCC church in turn bless JP. My family are too bless by JESUS throught JP.
 
Our society seems to have developed this mentality that certain professions - particularly charities and other do-ers of good - should not be paid well. I do not understand this sentiment.


Mr Prince do not think like you, he is not running a charity.
He is growing his business and investing his profits.
Therefore he got no guilt or whatsoever in taking what he think is justified.

As for people who willingly want to donate, that's between them and God.

Same for Durai, he is not running a charity, or Singaporeans will not go across JB for cheaper treatment.
 
Back
Top