Chee, SDP and the letters!

[myfoot123]

Dear Liquid

We seek to bring the PAP down a peg or two, chip away at the edifice, but neither do we want to bring the whole PAP house down tomorrow in the next GE, , Perhaps in four five GEs as things evolve but not tomorrow.

If everyone think they can still find comfort and warmth under PAP smelly sleeve till he is dead, it spells the doom for our next generations of Singaporean if there is still any left to speak of. If change is not now, it will never be in future - one generations thought will influence another and whatever we tried to do is simply hifallutin and procastination - because nobody dares and afraid to try. The problems Singaporeans faced is dire and not that simple, but genocide is in the making - fast and furious. If we still sit in our laurel and wait, Singapore will have very few Singaporeans left and they may just ended up as small pathetic tribe dwelling in old folks or hospice or camped in the forest with limited territory for comfort. They will eventually known by the larger foreigners as local origin, outcasted group.

I do not know how to describe a person fear when he is still alive, and irresponsibly pass the problems to new generation when he is dead. If LKY said he will wake up from his grave if he smell problems (for his familee), I do not see why a person cannot face problems when he is alive. It seems, PAP has won many weak hearts already.

 

[cass888]

No offense, but your insistence that he and his party take a stand is making you look like a spurned lover, dont you think so? Endorse or condemn, that letter has no bearing, voters or whoever like I've said before.

Stop deluding yourself that the oppo can dig itself out of the hole that CSJ has dug.

If Mr M S Goh does not condemn CSJ's letter, he is going to find out at the next election just how much MM Lee is revered.

Your attempts at ad hominiem attacks like "spurned lover" etc isn't going to halt the momentum that CSJ's letter to MM is going to build.

Dr. Chee has poured honey on the ground. Thank you, Dr. Chee

And Mr M S Goh has still failed to endorse or condemn the letter from Dr Chee

 

[rainnix]

If everyone think they can still find comfort and warmth under PAP smelly sleeve till he is dead, it spells the doom for our next generations of Singaporean if there is still any left to speak of. If change is not now, it will never be in future - one generations thought will influence another and whatever we tried to do is simply hifallutin and procastination - because nobody dares and afraid to try. The problems Singaporeans faced is dire and not that simple, but genocide is in the making - fast and furious. If we still sit in our laurel and wait, Singapore will have very few Singaporeans left and they may just ended up as small pathetic tribe dwelling in old folks or hospice or camped in the forest with limited territory for comfort. They will eventually known by the larger foreigners as local origin, outcasted group.

I do not know how to describe a person fear when he is still alive, and irresponsibly pass the problems to new generation when he is dead. If LKY said he will wake up from his grave if he smell problems (for his familee), I do not see why a person cannot face problems when he is alive. It seems, PAP has won many weak hearts already.

I always know that lockeliberal is a PAP apologist. LKY not dictator my foot.

 

[Tan Kim Kim]

Stop deluding yourself that the oppo can dig itself out of the hole that CSJ has dug.

If Mr M S Goh does not condemn CSJ's letter, he is going to find out at the next election just how much MM Lee is revered.

Your attempts at ad hominiem attacks like "spurned lover" etc isn't going to halt the momentum that CSJ's letter to MM is going to build.

Dr. Chee has poured honey on the ground. Thank you, Dr. Chee

And Mr M S Goh has still failed to endorse or condemn the letter from Dr Chee

Told you this bugger is a opportunist. He still waiting for the wind directions, go read my MBT & chio Bu thread and see how he got paranoid over some photos. Secretary General my foot!

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

I always know that lockeliberal is a PAP apologist. LKY not dictator my foot.

Exactly! I knew this a long time ago. What gave him away was the way he would shape shift to avoid the issue and bring up other, sometimes unrelated issues. This is typical PAPpy dog tactics. They can never face the truth noe be able to commit to talking straight.

Right now he is confused or at least trying to confuse people into thinking that a person must be a serial murderer or even murdered before fitting the role of a dictator.

 

[yellowarse]

not 100% clear...generally speaking PAP left that split fm Harry's PAP right were Maoist Commie sympathisers at the v least...

Sam is right. Those detained under Operation Cold Store were socialists, and there was no evidence whatsoever that they were planning any violent activities, based on declassified documents from the British and Australian archives.

The historian Geoff Wade has addressed these points very cogently in a detailed piece on the circumstances surrounding Cold Store, ‘Operation Cold Store’: A Key Event in the Creation of Malaysia and in the Origins of Modern Singapore.

The old fart is a thug. Period. In different circumstances, he'd have been a triad boss or a street mobster.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear My

Its simple really, if the PAP loses a few seats or enough seats. It will politically have to change and adopt new policies which it would not in the absence of the loss so frankly if my vote and whatever help causes the PAP to lose a few GRCs and if that forces it to adopt certain opposition policies then they have campaigned for I am a happy man.

I am in no doubts in my mind that the Opposition is not ready for government at the moment but in the future yes that would be my wish but winning seats/ GRCs enough is a must and a start.



Locke

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Yellow

Under Cold Store Chin Peng the CPM Boss Sec Gen declared his communist underground in SG got wiped out. They wanted a revolution on the streets, but if you were Gov in Malaya and in SG with the CPM still armed and surbodinates seeking "peaceful revolution" would you logically trust any of them ?



Locke

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Its simple really, if the PAP loses a few seats or enough seats. It will politically have to change and adopt new policies which it would not in the absence of the loss so frankly if my vote and whatever help causes the PAP to lose a few GRCs and if that forces it to adopt certain opposition policies then they have campaigned for I am a happy man.
Locke

The PAP is not a democratic-loving political party. It wants single-party rule. This has been declared by many of their MPs. If the PAP was like any other first world democratic party what you say may be correct. But the truth is far from your aspertions.

The PAP lost a number of votes in the last election. It has gone on to emass import new citizens are an alarming rate. Whle no one does something for a single reason, one of the reasons for this influx is surely to import in more PAP friendly voters.

Regardless of the number of votes it garners in the next GE, and as long as it wins the election, the PAP will continue to govern as it always has which means with little care for the majority of Singaporeans.

What we can expect with a PAP win regardless of the number of seats it wins or loses is more of the same. In fact, you can and should expect the PAP to import more new voters to stem the tide.

The PAP has shown again and again that the party is more important than Singapore. The survival of the party is of the utmost even to the detriment of Singapore and the majority of Singaporeans.

Dear My
I am in no doubts in my mind that the Opposition is not ready for government at the moment but in the future yes that would be my wish but winning seats/ GRCs enough is a must and a start.

Locke

What makes you think that the PAP is ready or even justified in governing Singapore. They have a ridiculously poor records over the last 10-20 years in terms of providing jobs, decent wages, progressive and forward looking education, affordable housing, sufficient pension funds for retirees and the aged, affordable and timely healthcare, comfortable and affordable public transport system and a civil society that helps to breed a thriving society.

Which PAP ministers are you so confident of in his or her job? Let us know. Other than Tharman, all the other ministers seem to be walking on stilts and fighting way over their weight level. Again, which PAP ministers are you so confident of in his or her job.

Please enlighten us.

 

[scroobal]

All communists are socialists but not vice versa. Those detained under Operation Cold Store were either communist or communist sympathisers. Communism is a beautiful ideology as it calls for equality and fairness for all men and elimination of exploitation of workers in what was fast becoming a capitalist world. Thinkers and those who were really concerned about mankind took to it.

Unforturnately Lenin chose violence and it took a turn that was not unexpected. The means to the end became hard to accept. The atrocities of the CPM could no longer be ignored or hidden. The term communist is no longer fashionable and the appropriate term is marxist.

As an ideology and as an experiment, it ran it course and it clearly failed. Both China and the USSR can attest to it.

The sparrow squad made up of communist assasins were killing businessmen and factory managers not just the british sympathisers.

We ignore history at our peril.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Sam is right. Those detained under Operation Cold Store were socialists, and there was no evidence whatsoever that they were planning any violent activities, based on declassified documents from the British and Australian archives.
...
The old fart is a thug. Period. In different circumstances, he'd have been a triad boss or a street mobster.

The PAP itself practices a form of socialism. Every political party has semblances of socialism. But the PAP is a fascist political party and for fascists, workers rights must never be elevated over and above that of the state and their businesses. Perhaps this is what riled the PAP.

I keep harking on the PAP being a fascist politcal party and yet there are very few takers. ALl you have to do is to go and read up on fascism and you will be astonished at how similar the PAP's style and programmes are to fascism.

 

[scroobal]

I don't think anyone with half a brain will ever consider the PAP run Singapore a democratic country. It is capitalist with a central planning twist and a true blue dictatorship. It certainly not socialist either.

The economic achievements of the PAP maybe laudable to some, but it is not worth the sacrifice in terms of lost decades in developing a proper plural democratic institution, politically enfranchising its citizens and creating a culture and country where creativity, independent thinking, and leadership are societal norms.

What then has the PAP created? A compliant and nanny state where fear is perceptible, a family dynasty that has made a home for its extended family within the grounds of the Istana, nepotism, and where the lines between a political party and the government has become blurred. A political party that shamelessly raids the coffers of this country to fund it political activities and uses state apparatus to create a captive grassroots movement.

The PAP is not a democratic-loving political party. It wants single-party rule. This has been declared by many of their MPs. If the PAP was like any other first world democratic party what you say may be correct. But the truth is far from your aspertions.

.

 

[scroobal]

I do agree. It is closest to fascism. Only the huge pictures of the leader is missing.

I keep harking on the PAP being a fascist politcal party and yet there are very few takers. ALl you have to do is to go and read up on fascism and you will be astonished at how similar the PAP's style and programmes are to fascism.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Chao

Its new citizens we have to worry about, new citizens vote, PR's cannot and heck even the PAP admits to problems converting PR's to citizens.

This is where I disagree, The Loss of votes matters to the PAP, the loss of a GRC would matter even more. When GCT loss votes a plenty in 1991 he fought back with more social policies including some policies borrowed from the opposition. I believe out disagreements stem from this point.

In another discussion with Arunvidial I would say crapped up management since the late nineties as I remember the earlier nineties differently. That aside the difference is at most half a decade or five years.

If I were the opposition I would be thankful to take over a country with the resources to spend on the issues I needed to deal with. Economics. Forex the laws of demand supply, stable exchange rate, etc etc do not follow the dictates of wishes of liberal politicians. And yes we have an opposition that needs time to build, needs time to train and cut its teeth in public policy and to prove themselves in parliament. I am not about to hand over the country to that bunch to govern just because I hate the PAP.



Locke

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

All communists are socialists but not vice versa. Those detained under Operation Cold Store were either communist or communist sympathisers.

Weren't the PAP then also communist sympathizers? It was nothing short of a power grab from a group of opportunists!

Communism is a beautiful ideology as it calls for equality and fairness for all men and elimination of exploitation of workers in what was fast becoming a capitalist world. Thinkers and those who were really concerned about mankind took to it.

Actually communism was destined for failure from a socio-economic point of view. Economically there was no way that it would work. And if it couldn't work economically then socially, it too would be a failure. The thinkers who took to it knew this but it allowed them to subjugate an entire population to their wants and wishes. And to this end they pushed forth communism.

For non-thinkers it sounded very good on the surface.

 

[Kid278]

Stop deluding yourself that the oppo can dig itself out of the hole that CSJ has dug.

If Mr M S Goh does not condemn CSJ's letter, he is going to find out at the next election just how much MM Lee is revered.

Your attempts at ad hominiem attacks like "spurned lover" etc isn't going to halt the momentum that CSJ's letter to MM is going to build.

Dr. Chee has poured honey on the ground. Thank you, Dr. Chee

And Mr M S Goh has still failed to endorse or condemn the letter from Dr Chee

It's no ad hominem, your badgering and hounding speaks volume. The dead is dead, earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

Unlike you I dont live in delusion, your imagination is running wild and knows no frontier. I guess comes election time you'll be carrying placards or displaying banners about a letter that has no bearing on anyone else whatsoever.

Get a grip and come to terms with yourself, get a life.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

I do agree. It is closest to fascism. Only the huge pictures of the leader is missing.

The pictures are replaced with other modes for communicating similar aspertions and aspirations. In fact, without the pictures, there are much more powerful avenues open for the propaganda machinery. Some are subtle while others are outright nauseating.

Even the PAP party logo has fascist roots.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Dear Chao

Its new citizens we have to worry about, new citizens vote, PR's cannot and heck even the PAP admits to problems converting PR's to citizens.

As far as the PAPies are concerned, PRs are a necessary evil for them to garner more citizens. It is a necessary because not everyone is willing to jump into citizenship immediately.And even then the PAP has gained in that revenues from housing purchases and gains in GDP are in line with PAP party goals.

This is where I disagree, The Loss of votes matters to the PAP, the loss of a GRC would matter even more. When GCT loss votes a plenty in 1991 he fought back with more social policies including some policies borrowed from the opposition. I believe out disagreements stem from this point.

Where then are these social policies? What are they and how have they helped to make the lives of Singaporeans better? Loss of votes of course matters to the PAP and that is why they need new votes from citizens.

How the PAPies go about regaining lost votes or winning new ones is actually where we disagree.

For some reason you attribute reactions of the PAP as those of a democratic political party within a full-fledged democratic society with free presses and where government control over business and livelihoods of the people are at a minimum. Contrast this with reality where the PAP is in full control of the presses and a strong control over the livelihood of a large number of its citizens.

I am not about to hand over the country to that bunch to govern just because I hate the PAP.
Locke

So I ask you again, for the third time, which PAP minister do you think has done a good job or is in a position where he or she has and will continue to do a good job.

It is nothing to do with hate but everything to do with voting in the right people. The gist then is how to we decide what is good for us and from there decide who it is that will do these good things for us. From there, we can then discern who the right group of people are.

But let's start by first finding out which PAP minister do you think has done exceptionally well or even well since the last GE.

 

[cass888]

It's no ad hominem, your badgering and hounding speaks volume. The dead is dead, earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

Unlike you I dont live in delusion, your imagination is running wild and knows no frontier. I guess comes election time you'll be carrying placards or displaying banners about a letter that has no bearing on anyone else whatsoever.

Get a grip and come to terms with yourself, get a life.

We will see.

Will MS Goh realise the folly of his ways when he makes his concession speech?

 

[God Meng Seng]

Scroobal:

Your identity will be exposed soon.

Stay tuned, and enjoy.

All communists are socialists but not vice versa. Those detained under Operation Cold Store were either communist or communist sympathisers. Communism is a beautiful ideology as it calls for equality and fairness for all men and elimination of exploitation of workers in what was fast becoming a capitalist world. Thinkers and those who were really concerned about mankind took to it.

Unforturnately Lenin chose violence and it took a turn that was not unexpected. The means to the end became hard to accept. The atrocities of the CPM could no longer be ignored or hidden. The term communist is no longer fashionable and the appropriate term is marxist.

As an ideology and as an experiment, it ran it course and it clearly failed. Both China and the USSR can attest to it.

The sparrow squad made up of communist assasins were killing businessmen and factory managers not just the british sympathisers.

We ignore history at our peril.