CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected!

[LonewolfAlfa]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

you are right!

now i have some time. so i checked on the net and no, PRs do not get grants when buying resale hdbs. they are also not allowed to buy first hand from hdb.

so the grants do give singaporeans an advantage if they want to compete with the PRs (who dont get any grants) in the resale market.

 

[LonewolfAlfa]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

so if grants are bad for sinkies, then you must also campaign for them to remove the HDB loan subsidies as well. no more just min 10% down with hdb loan. must take bank loan with minimum down 20%.

because this is also as you said, "Encouraging people to buy something that they could ill afford and that involved borrowing which will cost them a bomb in interests is like pushing them into shit hole."

 

[scroobal]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Guys

To be fair to GMS, any form of grant does distort market in more ways than one. The immediate effect is to raise the price and it will form a price support mechanism. So the economics is right.

Just that he is not putting this across politically that will provide him an advantage and his opponents a red face.

He has to make up his mind if he wants to be an economist or a politician. Mukul Asher who is an economist and academic knows that good economics leads to good social outcome and when he writes his papers he does it very well. He will outline the social outcomes of economic policies in such as way that it is platable and well understood and he obviously is a socialist at heart. GMS unfortunately does not have the skillset to put the two together.

As he and the NSP are obviously not going to form a govt or expected to be part of a coalition, he should not be writing policies on the fly. He should focus on pointing out the holes, the gaps, the errors etc. The issue is quite straight forward;

1) Prices are too high and young couples are being priced out
2) The grants are govt stop measure to correct mistakes made by the PAP
3) Those grants can be used elsewhere such as helping the disabled, the socially marginalised, the structurally unemployed etc
4) The PAP should explain their mistakes
5) There should be more parties and candidates in parliament to hold the PAP accountable etc

 

[LonewolfAlfa]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

he shoud be attacking the ministars obscene salary packages which is the root cause of the cost of living sky rocketing in spore, instead of trying to rewrite housing policies.

but of course he wont. he wants that as well.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

1) Prices are too high and young couples are being priced out
2) The grants are govt stop measure to correct mistakes made by the PAP
3) Those grants can be used elsewhere such as helping the disabled, the socially marginalised, the structurally unemployed etc
4) The PAP should explain their mistakes
5) There should be more parties and candidates in parliament to hold the PAP accountable etc

These are the points that many forummers have been trying to drill into GMS thick hide & skull, but GMS insists on being argumentative and failing to see the role he should be playing -- namely as you mentioned hitting the PAP in clear, simple, politically palatable and easily understandable terminology.

Of course grants distort the market. The point is that the PAP policy of asset appreciation has gone HORRIBLY awry, their policies have hurt couples much much more than any grant has ever helped them. That is the simple, direct point that GMS need to stick to.

But of course GMS will insist on doing a Malaccan comet & a Catherine Lim until the mad cows come home.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Thank you guys, especially Scroobal.

The voters are more sophisticated nowadays, especially those in Tampines. read the stats... more than 32% 5 room HDB flats. I believe this is the highest composition in any town. i.e. AMK town has only less than 10%. It is a totally different battle ground in Tampines.

It is interesting to read the responses from various people. One issue will have many different perspectives from different angles. Actually, I have slipped my mouth of my real intention here and Scroobal is sharp to notice it straight up.

In due time, I will have an interesting write up about this issue.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Thank you guys, especially Scroobal.

The voters are more sophisticated nowadays, especially those in Tampines. read the stats... more than 32% 5 room HDB flats. I believe this is the highest composition in any town. i.e. AMK town has only less than 10%. It is a totally different battle ground in Tampines.

It is interesting to read the responses from various people. One issue will have many different perspectives from different angles. Actually, I have slipped my mouth of my real intention here and Scroobal is sharp to notice it straight up.

In due time, I will have an interesting write up about this issue.

Goh Meng Seng

Don't obfuscate, confuscate, and confuse.

Let me remind you what Scroobal said:

1. Hard and unpopular decisions are always made when one receives the mandate to govern. Never before that and certainly not close to the elections.
2. To raise an issue where the impact is directly on the young is poor political judgement and in this case suicidal.
3. The price is not fundamentally driven by grants.
4. The issue and focus is affordability and the uncertainty faced by young Singaporeans. The grant if raised as an issue has to highlight the failure of the PAP to provide a stable property market that grows reasonably well in time.
5. Let treat this as an aberration or else the NSP is going to slide faster than the worse downturn

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

TBH,

Different battle ground will need to use different strategies. Trying to be populists can only win votes in some areas but not the other.

Grants DO up the pricing. You must first understand how the valuation process takes place. They are talking about additional grants etc. Grants DO affect price elasticity of demand. But these are just surface of the economic impacts. The deeper implications are that young couples will be entrapped with heavy debt burden and they will not have the opportunity to save enough for their future, i.e. retirement financing.

I will do up a nice piece on what people see and what objective economic implications are embedded. Perception may seem to be real to individuals but it may not be the whole objective truth.

Goh Meng Seng

Don't obfuscate, confuscate, and confuse.

Let me remind you what Scroobal said:

1. Hard and unpopular decisions are always made when one receives the mandate to govern. Never before that and certainly not close to the elections.
2. To raise an issue where the impact is directly on the young is poor political judgement and in this case suicidal.
3. The price is not fundamentally driven by grants.
4. The issue and focus is affordability and the uncertainty faced by young Singaporeans. The grant if raised as an issue has to highlight the failure of the PAP to provide a stable property market that grows reasonably well in time.
5. Let treat this as an aberration or else the NSP is going to slide faster than the worse downturn

 

[Forvendet]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Grants DO up the pricing. You must first understand how the valuation process takes place. They are talking about additional grants etc. Grants DO affect price elasticity of demand. But these are just surface of the economic impacts. The deeper implications are that young couples will be entrapped with heavy debt burden and they will not have the opportunity to save enough for their future, i.e. retirement financing.

Grant reduces the debt burden, e.g. taking up a $200k loan becomes taking up a $160k loan. Can removing grant cause the price to fall by $40k? Even if yes, 15% new buyers are not better off anyway, but 85% owners cry or die.

 

[Perspective]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

If it was me, I wouldn't suggest removing grants simply to reflect real market prices. Presently, grants help reduce the 20% downpayment. If a flat costs $250,000, you must have $50,000 in your CPF and the rest in cash. Many do not have $50,000 by the time they want to buy a flat. If a $40,000 grant come in, they only need to fork out $10,000 as downpayment. Most would have that $10,000.

Any politician suggesting remove grants should have an alternative, such as reducing downpayment to 5%.

We cannot forget that grants help the less well-off since those earning above $8,000 are not entitled to it.

This has nothing to do with being popular or unpopular. It's that simply scrapping grants hits the poorer the hardest. Which government would do that, especially socialist or democratic socialist ones?

 

[LonewolfAlfa]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

pls scrap off the hdb loan too. u want to borrow? borrow from a bank and put 20% down.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Grant reduces the debt burden, e.g. taking up a $200k loan becomes taking up a $160k loan. Can removing grant cause the price to fall by $40k? Even if yes, 15% new buyers are not better off anyway, but 85% owners cry or die.

You must read my original policy view. Apart from removing the grant, the other one is to have HDB selling NEW HDB flats AT COST PRICE.

There are FAR CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE in place if both things happen together.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

If they can't afford the down payment, they couldn't possibly afford the loans as well. Giving grant will not help but actually aggravate their financial situation for the next 30 years.

Goh Meng Seng

If it was me, I wouldn't suggest removing grants simply to reflect real market prices. Presently, grants help reduce the 20% downpayment. If a flat costs $250,000, you must have $50,000 in your CPF and the rest in cash. Many do not have $50,000 by the time they want to buy a flat. If a $40,000 grant come in, they only need to fork out $10,000 as downpayment. Most would have that $10,000.

Any politician suggesting remove grants should have an alternative, such as reducing downpayment to 5%.

We cannot forget that grants help the less well-off since those earning above $8,000 are not entitled to it.

This has nothing to do with being popular or unpopular. It's that simply scrapping grants hits the poorer the hardest. Which government would do that, especially socialist or democratic socialist ones?

 

[LonewolfAlfa]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

If they can't afford the down payment, they couldn't possibly afford the loans as well. Giving grant will not help but actually aggravate their financial situation for the next 30 years.

Goh Meng Seng

exactly. if they cant afford 20% down, they shouldn't be buying a flat at all.

this 10% down hdb loan, just like grants, is actually a death trap. pls campaign to abolish both!

 

[ivebert]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

If they can't afford the down payment, they couldn't possibly afford the loans as well. Giving grant will not help but actually aggravate their financial situation for the next 30 years.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Tristan]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

"If they can't afford the down payment, they couldn't possibly afford the loans as well. Giving grant will not help but actually aggravate their financial situation for the next 30 years." - Goh Meng Seng

So the GMS solution - "If you cannot afford housing, go live on East Coast Beach in a tent and don't expect any help from me if I ever became a housing policy maker."

 

[Zombie]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

If a flat costs $250,000, you must have $50,000 in your CPF and the rest in cash. Many do not have $50,000 by the time they want to buy a flat. If a $40,000 grant come in, they only need to fork out $10,000 as downpayment. Most would have that $10,000.

grant knocks off downpayment, or knocks off overall price?

knocks off downpayment: like you mentioned $50k - $40K = $10K downpayment

or

knocks off overall price: $250 - $40K = $210K,
then downpayment = $210K X 20% = $42K

I cannot remember which one..

 

[LonewolfAlfa]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

elite GMS is right you know? no money still want to buy a 5 room flat?

 

[LonewolfAlfa]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

people make a bit of money from selling off his hdb flat now talk also different liao. walk also got strong wind blow liao.

 

[Home Owner]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

If they can't afford the down payment, they couldn't possibly afford the loans as well. Giving grant will not help but actually aggravate their financial situation for the next 30 years.

Goh Meng Seng

Mr Goh

Many of us have already paid for our home
You better not bring the value of our home down!!!

Damn