CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected!

[longbow]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

What is wrong with buying new flats? They are affordable eapecially with a grant?

As mentioned, their problem is not increasing supply fast enough to meet demand. This shortage forced some into the resale market, where due to less stringent regulations and thus more buyers, prices are high.

In short if they build more new flats things should be fine.

The key is this, they shouldn't be thinking about Resale market flat if they find it difficult to afford! Make HDB sell new flats at cost so that they could buy cheap flats there. Then over time, they could have more savings earning interests, instead of paying interests through their mortgage. Thereafter, they could enjoy better later, be it retirement of upgrade to other flat types.

Encouraging people to buy something that they could ill afford and that involved borrowing which will cost them a bomb in interests is like pushing them into shit hole.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[silverfox@]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

The key is this, they shouldn't be thinking about Resale market flat if they find it difficult to afford! Make HDB sell new flats at cost so that they could buy cheap flats there. Then over time, they could have more savings earning interests, instead of paying interests through their mortgage. Thereafter, they could enjoy better later, be it retirement of upgrade to other flat types.

Encouraging people to buy something that they could ill afford and that involved borrowing which will cost them a bomb in interests is like pushing them into shit hole.

Goh Meng Seng

You have forgotten that we are dealing with humans. Humans have greed. Everyone wants bigger the better. If can afford 300K, but a nicer house is available at $330K, would the person stretch his budget? Most likely he will. The diff between Resale and New flats is locations. I have friends who go for Resale because of the location. The new flats that they are applying is too far from what they wanted. Resale is stretching their budget, but you have to understand, what you say is logic, but people do not accept logic.

The affordability issue is not a issue to young couples who are dying to have a home to procreate. They just want a home as convenient for them asap. Once people got a home, if they can get it at cost from HDB, do you think they will save the money up or use it to buy a car, go for overseas holiday, buy luxury items?

Have a big increase in supply, will sufficiently reduce the demand and bring down prices. Market forces will be at work.

The COE is 1 easy example. COE price goes up because of supply. Once supply supercedes demand, who would want to bid high for COE? There is so much to go around.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Doing away with the grant will only allow the govt to accumulate more surpluses. What will it do with the surplus? Distribute to poor & needy? Don't kid ourselves.

If you eliminate the grant, all that will happen is that demand will be pushed over into the smaller sized HDB flats as couples adjust their expectations & financial outlay downwards. This will not affect overall demand at all, merely re-distribute the demand towards those flats that need to remain affordable.

In other words, removing the grant will end up punishing the lowest income households because the lower rung of HDB flats will be pushed up in price due to the shifted demand.

The end result of removing grant is that the lowest and the top flats will converge in price, but median price will most likely stay the same.

Tell me how the hell will this solve our housing crisis.

 

[Zombie]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Pls dun misquote me for things i have never say. That is very deceptive and i find that despicable.

no need so hot lah.... don't see it as a misquote, rather see it as the thinking process of people who uses the existing flat units as a guide to prices, as many pro-GMS forummers even before you, have been using

 

[Zombie]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Have a big increase in supply, will sufficiently reduce the demand and bring down prices. Market forces will be at work.

simplicity..... and usually the simplest solution is the best solution..

but politicians just love to "sell" complications...

 

[manokie]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Have a big increase in supply, will sufficiently reduce the demand and bring down prices. Market forces will be at work.

The COE is 1 easy example. COE price goes up because of supply. Once supply supercedes demand, who would want to bid high for COE? There is so much to go around.

if you allow HDB prices to fluctuate and let a fully open market decide, you open it to speculation and you also devalue all the flats all at once. i think that is political suicide and no singaporean will want that. honestly, i rather the PAP has the prices in control so they can keep every family productive/housed. i understand that you want cheap flats but i think flats in singapore serve another purpose, which is to lock in the savings of singaporeans. that's because we all know what they will do when they get lots of money - gamble or migrate.

 

[scroobal]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

This is quickly becoming a repeat of the infamous GMS remarks about Catherine Lim which Melvin tried his best to moderate and went on for ages. Anyone can remember the nick of the forummer that cornered him.

 

[aurvandil]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Housing is probably the #1 hot topic which has gotten Singaporeans upset with the PAP. The headway Goh Meng Seng has made on this can be seen from the fact that when people have a point to make about housing, they send an email to MInister Mah and cc Goh Meng Seng.

His original points for solving the housing problem is simple. In point form, they are:

1) Publish the cost for building HDB flats.
2) Sell the HDB flats at cost to Singaporeans.

This has been warped by the IB to become:

1) Goh Meng Seng wants to take away the housing grant.

The issue of the housing grant arose because Goh Meng Seng made the point that if HDB flats are sold at cost, then they would be much cheaper than the current method of selling HDB flats pegged to market price. As the flats are much cheaper, there is then no need to give a housing grant. The current housing grant keeps prices at an aritifically high level as the money leaks into the resale market. In economic terms, the spiral upwards follows closely what is proposed by the Cobweb Theorm.


In the days leading up to the GE, there will no doubt be further attempts by the IB, MSM and government ministries reporting to Minister Mah to muddy waters and distort the truth. The mindset behind these attempts is the same as that revealed by the Wikileaks cables - that Singaporeans are stupid and can be easily fooled.

The silent majority is however not the stupid majority.

Every morning they wake up, they see their 30 yr mortgage that requires dual income to service. They look at their bank account, CPF and see that after paying off their HDB flat, they have no meaningful savings for any kind of contingency (illness, unemployment) much less retirement.

The ability of the silent majority to see the truth can be seen from the fact the despite two years of almost non-stop propaganda (including Minister Man's personal newspaper column), the issue steadfastly refuses to go away.

 

[cheekenpie]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Housing is probably the #1 hot topic which has gotten Singaporeans upset with the PAP. The headway Goh Meng Seng has made on this can be seen from the fact that when people have a point to make about housing, they send an email to MInister Mah and cc Goh Meng Seng.

His original points for solving the housing problem is simple. In point form, they are:

1) Publish the cost for building HDB flats.
2) Sell the HDB flats at cost to Singaporeans.

This has been warped by the IB to become:

1) Goh Meng Seng wants to take away the housing grant.

The issue of the housing grant arose because Goh Meng Seng made the point that if HDB flats are sold at cost, then they would be much cheaper than the current method of selling HDB flats pegged to market price. As the flats are much cheaper, there is then no need to give a housing grant. The current housing grant keeps prices at an aritifically high level as the money leaks into the resale market. In economic terms, the spiral upwards follows closely what is proposed by the Cobweb Theorm.


In the days leading up to the GE, there will no doubt be further attempts by the IB, MSM and government ministries reporting to Minister Mah to muddy waters and distort the truth. The mindset behind these attempts is the same as that revealed by the Wikileaks cables - that Singaporeans are stupid and can be easily fooled.

The silent majority is however not the stupid majority.

Every morning they wake up, they see their 30 yr mortgage that requires dual income to service. They look at their bank account, CPF and see that after paying off their HDB flat, they have no meaningful savings for any kind of contingency (illness, unemployment) much less retirement.

The ability of the silent majority to see the truth can be seen from the fact the despite two years of almost non-stop propaganda (including Minister Man's personal newspaper column), the issue steadfastly refuses to go away.

Bro, it wasn't the IB they warped GMS's words. He is quite capable of doing that himself.

And as for silent majority not being the stupid majority, then maybe you are saying the 66.6 voted well?

 

[knightriderz]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

You really jialat. If New HDB flat sold at cost can be just $180k but because HDB didn't want to build enough flats, entice young couples to buy from resale market by giving a grant of $40k ending up with them paying $300K for their flat, aren't they going to commit more loans thus interests with 30yr mortgage when they could have just gotten their flat at $180k, saving them more than $120k plus all the interests?

Do you know that in some aspect, interest is modern day slavery? For young couples to over-commit themselves in buying a resale HDB flat is POISON of slavery.

Goh Meng Seng

Grants r to help ppe stay near their parents lol! Seriously, has it crossed ur brilliant mind dat Hdb can't build @ estates tat r mature as there ain't much land left? So if I wan b a good kid n stay near my parents LAN LAN muz buy resale rte?
Sumtimes u wan get married n u r in ur 30s can't wait 4 bto n lanlan resale e ONI option!
Besides, e grant is e few remaining things dat sets us apart from PRs mr sec-gen

 

[hockbeng]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

by dishing out substantial grant of up to $80,000 (sc family grant + additional housing grant), these grant money distort how a free market should work esp. When the market demand is high becos the grant aka free money will fuel the market price beyond affordable level.

The grant of up to $80,000 makes the first time buyer perceive that their intended purchase is affordable even though they may be not. In short, first time buyers are given extra "incentive" when the policy makers increase the grant quantum to enter the resale market. Thus, distorting the free market mechanism. For example, can we see the price of a 1 room flat fall below $80k? Quite unlikely even in a deep recession becos there is a $80,000 buffer. That is problem no 1.

Problem no 2 is as we all know by now, hdb bto is pegged against the resale market price. Hence, the grant money not only distort the resale market but also indirectly cause the bto price to escalate.

Now, we need to ask ourself why the government kept increasing the housing grant. To make hdb more affordable as claimed by mr mah or is it becos that hdb is no longer affordable to many of our fellow singaporeans.

That may explain why even families with $5,000 household income are receiving additional housing grant on top of the usual $30k/40k sc housing grant.

I truly admire mr goh for being so daring to suggest the removal of the housing grant even though he will most likely face backlash from the voters. Personally, i feel the right thing a politician should do is to do the right thing and not what is going to be popular with the electorate. Even when that may cost them to lose some votes, so be it.

However, there is one big problem with gms. He failed to elaborate and explain in details which is a must especially when implementing unpopular policy changes.

your explanation makes perfect sense. Most people dont understand how free/cheap money distorts the free market and inflates prices.

Lets assume the gov is willing to give $1 million free to anyone who buys their first property; you see what will happen to the market.

 

[hockbeng]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

housing is probably the #1 hot topic which has gotten singaporeans upset with the pap. The headway goh meng seng has made on this can be seen from the fact that when people have a point to make about housing, they send an email to minister mah and cc goh meng seng.

His original points for solving the housing problem is simple. In point form, they are:

1) publish the cost for building hdb flats.
2) sell the hdb flats at cost to singaporeans.

This has been warped by the ib to become:

1) goh meng seng wants to take away the housing grant.

The issue of the housing grant arose because goh meng seng made the point that if hdb flats are sold at cost, then they would be much cheaper than the current method of selling hdb flats pegged to market price. As the flats are much cheaper, there is then no need to give a housing grant. The current housing grant keeps prices at an aritifically high level as the money leaks into the resale market. In economic terms, the spiral upwards follows closely what is proposed by the cobweb theorm.


In the days leading up to the ge, there will no doubt be further attempts by the ib, msm and government ministries reporting to minister mah to muddy waters and distort the truth. The mindset behind these attempts is the same as that revealed by the wikileaks cables - that singaporeans are stupid and can be easily fooled.

the silent majority is however not the stupid majority.

every morning they wake up, they see their 30 yr mortgage that requires dual income to service. They look at their bank account, cpf and see that after paying off their hdb flat, they have no meaningful savings for any kind of contingency (illness, unemployment) much less retirement.

The ability of the silent majority to see the truth can be seen from the fact the despite two years of almost non-stop propaganda (including minister man's personal newspaper column), the issue steadfastly refuses to go away.

excellent reply!

Taking things/word out of context is the hallmark of the pap!

Hope most pple are not that stupid

 

[Glaringly]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

I am more then happy to pay for a new 4 room HDB flat for $100,000.

Only stupid people think that they are better off having a $40,000 grant for a new HDB 4 room flat that cost more then $300,000.

Of course, the PAP IB in here are happily skewing it to keep you forever stooopid!


Are you?

 

[cheekenpie]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

I am more then happy to pay for a new 4 room HDB flat for $100,000.

Only stupid people think that they are better off having a $40,000 grant for a new HDB 4 room flat that cost more then $300,000.

Of course, the PAP IB in here are happily skewing it to keep you forever stooopid!


Are you?

I dont want to pay $100,000.... i want to pay only $30,000 and later sell at $300,000. You buy from me?

 

[ivebert]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

GMS never fail to amaze me with his stupidity

the is why:

 

[Glaringly]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

I dont want to pay $100,000.... i want to pay only $30,000 and later sell at $300,000. You buy from me?

PAP policies not only make people look and feel stupid.

It also produce day dreamers.

 

[cheekenpie]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

PAP policies not only make people look and feel stupid.

It also produce day dreamers.

So mister realist, does you $100,000 hdb flat seem realistic?

 

[silverfox@]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Doing away with the grant will only allow the govt to accumulate more surpluses. What will it do with the surplus? Distribute to poor & needy? Don't kid ourselves.

If you eliminate the grant, all that will happen is that demand will be pushed over into the smaller sized HDB flats as couples adjust their expectations & financial outlay downwards. This will not affect overall demand at all, merely re-distribute the demand towards those flats that need to remain affordable.

In other words, removing the grant will end up punishing the lowest income households because the lower rung of HDB flats will be pushed up in price due to the shifted demand.

The end result of removing grant is that the lowest and the top flats will converge in price, but median price will most likely stay the same.

Tell me how the hell will this solve our housing crisis.

Quite true also. Without a grant, the demand will flow over to smaller units and present a demand over supply situation on the smaller units. People are still paying over value for a house.

Anyway, having given a carrot for so many years and suddenly someone propose not to give the carrot anymore. It isn't a right or wrong question. It is a question whether will the people be happy that the carrot is no longer available?

Another thing is asking HDB to sell HDB flats at cost. If HDB really agrees to sell HDB flats at cost, they will control the resale of flats and prevent homeowners making a profit. To simply say, HDB don't make money, homeowners can forget about making a single cent as well. What will become of HDB flats? Valueless. The loss of income for HDB will have to come from somewhere. And where? Income Taxes? So does it solve the problem. Yes it solves 1 problem but creates another one also

 

[Glaringly]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

So mister realist, does you $100,000 hdb flat seem realistic?

If you care to search this forum, if I remembered correctly, it cost $70,000 to build a unit for a private development project.

I bought my HDB at $60,000 in late 80s.

 

[ivebert]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

If you care to search this forum, if I remembered correctly, it cost $70,000 to build a unit for a private development project.

I bought my HDB at $60,000 in late 80s.

Use your fucking brains.
If they charge every pigeonhole at cost, what if some fuckers lose their jobs and cannot pay up? There is a need to insert a $100,000 cushion.