Casino Levy to be raised after Elections?

[lockeliberal]

Dear Silver and Arundival

The US Gov has stated that Las Vegas benefits from having casino's because it exports its social problems that is 80% of its gambling revenue is from out of LV itself. We also have LV using its taxes to pay for better education and better infrastructure hence mitigating some of its dangers and ills.

One has to ask what the benefits are to Singapore ? Note the annual budget for the Problem Gambling Council is 2.5 million how much has the the SG Gov collected in Revenues ? What are the percentages split between local and foreign spending ? Has the Government spend more on welfare for its poorest people ?






Locke

 

[aurvandil]

The US Gov has stated as has the Aus gov that the opening of a casino will double the no of gambling addicts within twenty miles of the said Casino. We are just starting to see the tip of the iceberg.

I don't think we are even seeing the tip. 7 months is way too short a time period. The "tip" will only emerge in about 2 years when problem gamblers have had sufficent time to lose all their money.

As I wrote previously, Minister Balakrishnan is not to keen to do anything now for fear of affecting his re-election . He is obviously hoping to "run road" to another Ministry before the chickens come home to roost. The problem then becomes the problem of the sucker that becomes the next Minister for MCYS.

The ideas of a casino card/ low stakes gambling etc are just some measures to try and mitigate and contain the negative effects. They cannot of course completely negate the negative effects of building two casinos in the center of Singapore.

 

[silverfox@]

I think we all agree that out of control gambling is a social hazard but it is similar to eating too much food, drinking too much alcohol and smoking too many cigarettes. The issue is how to control it.

Some people smoke 2 sticks a day, some people 20 sticks
Some people eat 3 meals a day, some eat > 6 meals
Some people occasionally drink, some drink at least 3 nights a week in nightclubs, pubs.
Some people go casinos 3 times a week, some people do not like to gamble, so they don't go casino at all. These people will always have a negative perspective on casino gambling.

However, I am against casino card checking my income. This is nonsensical. Can you imagine amongst friends and relatives, very quickly, everyone will know who earns how much. There is not enough privacy in Singapore at the moment.

Why should they check our income when we are paying CASH in the casino? We are not using credit at all.

Don't quite understand. Do you own a credit card?

To get a credit card, you have to provide the same information to the bank. The bank will then give you a card based on your income. They will also set you a credit limit based on your income.

Most people who have credit cards don't have privacy problems with this.

When then is it an issue to provide such info to the casino?

Read above. Do u understand the meaning of credit card?
Credit card means on CREDIT, that is why they need your statement.

Playing in casino, playing with CASH, why the need our statement? As if we are playing on CREDIT terms and have no means to pay up.

Now my next question is if the govt wants the casino to limit the losses of Singaporeans, so is there a limit to how much can win from casino?

Limit loss at $10000 for Singaporean, Limit Win at $10000 for Singaporean? So once you go casino, you win $10K, casino say you cannot gamble already because your financial status allows you to lose up to $10K, so you can only win up to $10K. It is becoming more and more foolish reading such a concept.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Now my next question is if the govt wants the casino to limit the losses of Singaporeans, so is there a limit to how much can win from casino?

Limit loss at $10000 for Singaporean, Limit Win at $10000 for Singaporean? So once you go casino, you win $10K, casino say you cannot gamble already because your financial status allows you to lose up to $10K, so you can only win up to $10K. It is becoming more and more foolish reading such a concept.

Hi Silverfox,

It is clear that you enjoy Casino gambling and you are a well disciplined gambler. Good for you.

However, you must bear in mind that NOT everyone is as good as you do, as disciplined as you do. In fact, MOST gamblers do not understand the odds against them and always think that they could make a fortune out of gambling. They thought it is "LUCK" that they need without knowing that statistical odds dictates that most of them will lose their pants off in the long run.

And most important of all, many of these people are from the vulnerable group of people.

Addiction to gambling may be even worst than addiction to drugs, alcohol or cigarrettes.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Ramseth]

Hi Silverfox,

It is clear that you enjoy Casino gambling and you are a well disciplined gambler. Good for you.

However, you must bear in mind that NOT everyone is as good as you do, as disciplined as you do. In fact, MOST gamblers do not understand the odds against them and always think that they could make a fortune out of gambling. They thought it is "LUCK" that they need without knowing that statistical odds dictates that most of them will lose their pants off in the long run.

And most important of all, many of these people are from the vulnerable group of people.

Addiction to gambling may be even worst than addiction to drugs, alcohol or cigarrettes.

Goh Meng Seng

I think what Silverfox means is, if they've enough cash to spend, or to lose, it's their own business, none of politicians' business, whether ruling party or opposition. I also agree either you have casino or no casino in this country. If you have it, there shouldn't be any level. A card system with credit rating is overkill for those with the cash and don't need to borrow.

From a socio-political standpoint, of course it makes sense to discourage irresponsible gambling, especially when leading to irresponsible borrowing. There're other ways of addressing these issues. Don't be like the PAP, nanny wants to take care of everybody's lifestyles and money. Don't be like the PAP, every solution to every problem is charging people more money.

 

[Green Light]

Hi Silverfox,

It is clear that you enjoy Casino gambling and you are a well disciplined gambler. Good for you.

However, you must bear in mind that NOT everyone is as good as you do, as disciplined as you do. In fact, MOST gamblers do not understand the odds against them and always think that they could make a fortune out of gambling. They thought it is "LUCK" that they need without knowing that statistical odds dictates that most of them will lose their pants off in the long run.

And most important of all, many of these people are from the vulnerable group of people.

Addiction to gambling may be even worst than addiction to drugs, alcohol or cigarrettes.

Goh Meng Seng

Beside telling ppl that gambling is bad like xinmin wanbao which publicize it almost everyday in the paper, may we know what are your proposal and solutions to tackle these 'problem'?

 

[aurvandil]

It is clear that you enjoy Casino gambling and you are a well disciplined gambler. Good for you.

However, you must bear in mind that NOT everyone is as good as you do, as disciplined as you do. In fact, MOST gamblers do not understand the odds against them and always think that they could make a fortune out of gambling. They thought it is "LUCK" that they need without knowing that statistical odds dictates that most of them will lose their pants off in the long run.

If you refer to the gambling thread, you will find that silverwolf if a pretty poor gambler statistically.

He likes people to believe he can "beat the casino" by using secret gambling kung fu taught by former junket operators, mysterious ah peks etc.

He claims to have manually simulated over 3000 hands of a special instance of blackjack using a 8 deck shoe. As this would have taken about 100 man hours to complete, he claims to have done this over an extended period of time (manually for 3 months or more) In doing this, he claims to have obtained a completely different result from the standard monte carlo simulation computational statisticians used to derive basic strategy.

For those interested, you can read the discussion we had here.

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=602&page=120

 

[silverfox@]

Hi Silverfox,

It is clear that you enjoy Casino gambling and you are a well disciplined gambler. Good for you.

However, you must bear in mind that NOT everyone is as good as you do, as disciplined as you do. In fact, MOST gamblers do not understand the odds against them and always think that they could make a fortune out of gambling. They thought it is "LUCK" that they need without knowing that statistical odds dictates that most of them will lose their pants off in the long run.

And most important of all, many of these people are from the vulnerable group of people.

Addiction to gambling may be even worst than addiction to drugs, alcohol or cigarrettes.

Goh Meng Seng

Do you think we should help people who have no self control and chose to gamble everything away leaving their families in deep shit with them?

I think these people deserve it. Why don't you gamble your wealth away putting your family in hardship? Because you know what you should do and what you should not do. How much you can lose and how much you cannot afford to lose.

Some people can afford to lose a few hundreds but they allow themselves to lose control and lose few thousands. Blame gambling? Blame the casino? Before they start going to the casino, before they starting changing the 1st dollar, why they never blame gambling or the casino?

People must learn to face up to consequences in life if that is the decision they make. Whether they are in gambling, drugs, alcohol or smoking.

 

[silverfox@]

If you refer to the gambling thread, you will find that silverwolf if a pretty poor gambler statistically.

He likes people to believe he can "beat the casino" by using secret gambling kung fu taught by former junket operators, mysterious ah peks etc.

He claims to have manually simulated over 3000 hands of a special instance of blackjack using a 8 deck shoe. As this would have taken about 100 man hours to complete, he claims to have done this over an extended period of time (manually for 3 months or more) In doing this, he claims to have obtained a completely different result from the standard monte carlo simulation computational statisticians used to derive basic strategy.

For those interested, you can read the discussion we had here.

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=602&page=120

Up to you to believe. It's mathematically possible to beat MBS in blackjack but not in RWS. :p

Let me add in. Not only mathematically possible but also possible in real life because of the blackjack rules in RWS which is different from MBS.

 

[theblackhole]

many of the gamblers are ignorant and clueless....many who play rouletter don't even know how to play!!!! and all they're doing are simply donating to the casino blindly!!!! many of them are playing cash chips and they can't even remember which number and what bets!!!...and many even play more than two tables at a time!!!!!!!!!

i think the casino should put a stop to these form of play!!! potentially explosive when it comes to claims and losses of cash chips!!! bloody stupid and greedy players!!!!!

 

[Steve111]

Up to you to believe. It's mathematically possible to beat MBS in blackjack but not in RWS. :p

Let me add in. Not only mathematically possible but also possible in real life because of the blackjack rules in RWS which is different from MBS.

Hahaha! Sheldon Adelson will need some sleeping pills after reading this! :p

 

[Ramseth]

Hahaha! Sheldon Adelson will need some sleeping pills after reading this! :p

I don't think so. Most likely having extra expresso shots to keep him awake to work out new rules and odds.

 

[Steve111]

I don't think so. Most likely having extra expresso shots to keep him awake to work out new rules and odds.

Why does he needs new rules and odds?

 

[aurvandil]

Silverwolf claims he not only can beat blackjack. He also claims he can beat baccarat using a special gambling kung fu taught to him by a mysterious ah pek.

There was this ah pek who taught me before years ago while we playing baccarat together. He said in that 8 deck got a lot of big 10,J Q,K, and he will start buying TIE. Of course doesn't mean from start he buy or he always buy. But he will see the cards that are out and then he count see which cards left most in the deck.

You can read our entire humourous exchange here where I tried to explain that this is statistically impossible.

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=602&page=110

 

[popeye]

This is becoming more of a tripartite thread.

As I see, the levy system has opposite effect. It deters the rational people, likely control gamblers, but does not affect, and on the contrary, encourages betting and/or makes problem gamblers.

Most are in favour of a income-based casino card system. but I don't see how it can be administered or tracked. We'll see uncles, aunties and regulars having their international social escorts/gigolos (China students /WP holders) beside them, changing cash, placing bets, squeezing cards for them, for a daily/hourly fee. Then another boom of 'FT' , vice, extra-marital affairs, and broken families.

Many are complaining of the levy, becos they are only interested to have a glimpse and feel the place in their own SG, not to gamble..Perhaps a per-citizen entry quota system (an annual number that makes business sense to the casinos), is more logical.

This will satisfy the unjustified many, deprived of a free visit to their homeland casinos, partially satisfy the anti-casino campaigners (also jealously cravin to go look-see), limit the hardcore, likely problem gamblers..provided garmen are willing to forgo their $10m/mth levy income.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Horses do not run 24/7, Toto do not run 24/7, Bets in a casino whether on the roulette , or black jack or machines are 24/7 with up to 30 bets a minute. That is why qualitatively and quantitively the nature is so different.

Locke

here i dun agree. u know how much is a mininium bet for horse racing, it just 2 lousy bucks. It only 50 cents for a toto system 6 and a dollar for 4D and $5 for a football bet. These are the games design for the masses by Spools. It the masses that shd be protected from gambling addiction. Just because now MSM keep reporting news about ppl who gamble in casino that politician started coming out for make noise to score brownie points.
Please lah, all those "products" by Spools had been causing family to break up since police still wearing shorts. If not, last time why got ah long hang pig head at debtor main door. So dont just shoot at the casinos just becasue MSM keep reporting news on them.
As much as casino operating on a 24/7 basis, Spools are not far behind. It internet account, punter can place bet on european football at 2.30am. In fact, everyday is a betting day for Spools. I always believe one must be responsible for one action, if the person want to bet his fortune away, who are we to stop him. It is his farking rights... i tot ppl here preach freedom of expression, freedom to demostrate, freedom to do what ever one's like. So if he or she lose all their money, then serve them FARKING rite!!!
so my bottom line, if govt want to pass new regulations to prevent gambling addiction, then govt should not only target the casinos but across the board, jackpots clubs, turfclub, Spools, the lots. Because just regulate the casinos will just turn the gambler back to more local favour type of "games" So in the end, still an LPPL situation.

 

[Steve111]

Silverwolf claims he not only can beat blackjack. He also claims he can beat baccarat using a special gambling kung fu taught to him by a mysterious ah pek.


You can read our entire humourous exchange here where I tried to explain that this is statistically impossible.

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=602&page=110

You are wrong, Silverfox is far more superior than all the PHDs and mathematicians around. He's debunked "Basic rules" that have been around for decades. You can't go wrong by following his advice. I would ban him if I were Sheldon Adelson!

 

[Baroko]

and you seriously believe that..??

Haha, no, I have never believed in the PAP since 3 decades ago. I have been around since Singapore had a British Governor and our National Anthem was "God save the Queen" and policemen were wearing khaki shorts and berets. But I like to think that that should be the rational for 2 casinos which they have slyly disguised as IRs. As I have said what they are using the extra windfall revenue for will be another subject for discussion.

Thanks for reading my post bro.

 

[aurvandil]

We'll see uncles, aunties and regulars having their international social escorts/gigolos (China students /WP holders) beside them, changing cash, placing bets, squeezing cards for them, for a daily/hourly fee. Then another boom of 'FT' , vice, extra-marital affairs, and broken families.

If the person's gambling addiction has reached the advanced stage where they hire a proxy and gamble from behind, then it is obvious they are beyond the ability of anyone to help them. A $100/$2k levy will not deter such people and the only thing left to do is offer prayers for them.

 

[aurvandil]

The Straits Times conducted an online poll.

http://www.straitstimes.com/vgn-ext...3d71b210VgnVCM100000430a0a0aRCRD&vgnresults=Y

Out of 228 respondents who responded to the poll, 82% indicated that they will continue to visit the casinos even though the free shuttle services have been terminated.

Minister Balakrishnan's flashy attempt to do something decisive about problem gambling has therefore been shown to be not effective at all.