Casino Levy to be raised after Elections?

[annexa]

They will up GST.

 

[popeye]

If the person's gambling addiction has reached the advanced stage where they hire a proxy and gamble from behind, then it is obvious they are beyond the ability of anyone to help them. A $100/$2k levy will not deter such people and the only thing left to do is offer prayers for them.

Dun need to be advanced stage, under a income-based betting quota system, any gambler with higher stakes, simply engaged a sexy, lucky chic for the same $100 per day to bet and squeeze card for them..+ 10% winning commission, while u squeeze boobs and bump for a $100 more, and package of $500 for full package. By then, will be interesting to see a cluster of international chics hanging around casinos, with reputed ranking of hotness and luckiness, charging $500 to $5,000 per day 7-sins escort fee..

Uncles, hornies, richies, loners all can do. I'll do, & try to resist the full package..(will be ''hard' under those environ). Will an income-based system work?
(Makes more economic sense then to go pow mistresses for regular hi-rollers.)

 

[Ramseth]

Why does he needs new rules and odds?

Since you claim that Silverfox has debunked him.

 

[silverfox@]

Silverwolf claims he not only can beat blackjack. He also claims he can beat baccarat using a special gambling kung fu taught to him by a mysterious ah pek.

You can read our entire humourous exchange here where I tried to explain that this is statistically impossible.

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?t=602&page=110

You must be really childish. No more points to raise and you start bringing all the talk from casino gambling thread here. You have never stepped into the local casinos. You have not played a single game on the table. Regarding on playing blackjack, others who are keen can go to the casino gambling thread.

Replying to your childish taunts on this thread on casino gambling is not in relation to the thread title on casino levy

If you check back or anyone can do that too, you seem to be in 2 or 3 minds as to how the levy should be collected.

1. In the casino gambling thread, you said why IRs must collect casino levy? It's absurd. It should be FREE.

2. You said people should all go Genting malaysia or other countries to gamble where there is no casino levies instead of playing in IRs in Singapore.

3. Look at how enthusiastic you were in sharing how to hustle comps from foreign casinos.

4. You said when the turnout is not as expected, eventually the levies will be removed.

5. Now you said look at how casino levies are not deterring people from going casinos, you start to emphasis on how people will still be having problems in gambling. And the only way is to have a credit system to assess how each individual are allowed to lose in a casino. Only via this method can problem gambling be eradicated.

So what is the purpose? No levy? Increase levy? Gambling allow or don't allow? No gambling is the only way that problem gambling will not exist. Not via removal of levy and assessing how much each individual can gamble.

Of course at the same time you became very self-righteous to say "See? This levy did not stop people from gambling in casino and in turn became problem gambling cases.

Actually all these you are saying is just your selfish reason of wanting the levy to be removed so you can go into the casino for FREE> Isn't it so?
Look at how hypocritical your postings are regarding this issue. You tried to act morally right in saying how bad problem gambling has become but the other end you want the levy to be removed so that people like you who are not willing to pay the levy can enter the casino for free.

 

[Steve111]

Since you claim that Silverfox has debunked him.

Sam Leong's quote--> "I don't need pats on the back. What I need is an audience that has a reasonable IQ and the ability to understand satire and detect sarcasm when it is present."

 

[aurvandil]

You must be really childish. No more points to raise and you start bringing all the talk from casino gambling thread here. You have never stepped into the local casinos. You have not played a single game on the table. Regarding on playing blackjack, others who are keen can go to the casino gambling thread.

I don't understand why you are so upset. I am just quoting what you wrote in that thread. Any reason why you don't want people to know about these fantastic claims you have made in the past?

Actually all these you are saying is just your selfish reason of wanting the levy to be removed so you can go into the casino for FREE> Isn't it so?
Look at how hypocritical your postings are regarding this issue. You tried to act morally right in saying how bad problem gambling has become but the other end you want the levy to be removed so that people like you who are not willing to pay the levy can enter the casino for free.

As I have said time and time again, no one is talking about implementing a casino card system. All the serious policy discussion is about raising the levy, especailly the 1 year levy since this has been proven to be too "cheap" to deter problem gamblers. If you are worried this will happen, you should organise a facebook or a petition to lobby Minister Balakrishnan.

Also unlike you, I don't have a gambling problem coupled with fantasies of being a "gambling god" who can defy the laws of probability. Even if the levy was removed tomorrow, you won't see me rushing down to the casinos. This is because I am a staistican by training. I know all of the odds for all of the games so there is zero excitment for me to play. I comp hustle when I go to Genting with my kakis because honestly, I am bored to tears. The thrill is in beating the casino, not because I cannot afford a room, a meal or a show.

On being moral about things, well I am able to interpret numbers better than a lay person because of my statistical background. If we stay the present course, we are headed for some serious social problems brought about the casinos. Goh Meng Seng started this thread so I thought it might be useful to share what I know since he seems quite sincere to do something about these serious social problems.

 

[Ramseth]

I have to stand on the side of Silverfox on this. Why shouldn't people be allowed to or be levied upon to gamble with their own money. Your morals are your morals, don't impose it on others. The real problem is what if, gamblers turned debtors or destitutes and cause social problems imposing on others. Either you have casios or not. If you have, these problems are government problems, not innocent and responsible people's problem that they have to pay levies to help finance solve it.

 

[shunquan]

I have to stand on the side of Silverfox on this. Why shouldn't people be allowed to or be levied upon to gamble with their own money. Your morals are your morals, don't impose it on others. The real problem is what if, gamblers turned debtors or destitutes and cause social problems imposing on others. Either you have casios or not. If you have, these problems are government problems, not innocent and responsible people's problem that they have to pay levies to help finance solve it.

There is another option. Casinos only for foreigners.

 

[Ramseth]

There is another option. Casinos only for foreigners.

You mean like 新加坡人与狗不准进入？:oIo:

 

[myfoot123]

I would have changed the title to: GST to be raised after election.

It will scare the shit out of all PAP supporters. Massive vote will be casted for alternative parties without much effort.

 

[Ramseth]

I would have changed the title to: GST to be raised after election.

It will scare the shit out of all PAP supporters. Massive vote will be casted for alternative parties without much effort.

Scared what? Just be prepared. It is going to be 10% GST after election.

 

[aurvandil]

I would have changed the title to: GST to be raised after election.

It will scare the shit out of all PAP supporters. Massive vote will be casted for alternative parties without much effort.

You are giving Goh Meng Seng ideas. There is plenty of empirical evidence to support that this will happen. The PAP has announced things like $9k for NS men, major upgrading for SMRT. major building project for HDB etc. Concurrently they have also announced that they will replish the reserves. Doesn't take an edvanced stats degree to figure out that they will be raising GST AFTER the elections to probably 10% to finance all these projects.

Other than GST, Goh Meng Seng can also consider doing a piece called ERP to be raised after election. If you travel along expressways (esp KPE), you will find that the PAP has put up 50 to 70 NEW ERP gantries. These have not been turned on and stare ominously down on you. It is reasonable to assume they will be turned on AFTER the elections. These are a temporary measure until Minister Lim can realise his dream of GSP based ERP.

 

[aurvandil]

Either you have casios or not. If you have, these problems are government problems, not innocent and responsible people's problem that they have to pay levies to help finance solve it.

If you want the levies to be removed, you are standing on the wrong side. Silverwolf wants the exisiting $100/$2k levy to be carved in stone like the 10 Commandments. Otherwise we will get a lot of poor Singaporeans who go in and look see. As is, he oredi very du-lan the poor foreign workers who go in FOC and put $5 on his "skyscaper" stack of chips.

I am not sure whether you have been to the IR, but the levy must stay. Those foreign workers go into the casino FOC, standing behind your back, breathing down your neck looking at how you are playing. Some go in bet $5, stack on your chips. If there is no levy, more people will go in and look see look see.

 

[shunquan]

Scared what? Just be prepared. It is going to be 10% GST after election.

No problem. Just lower the income tax by a mere 0.5% at the same time and most of us will be happy.

 

[Subok]

What up casion levy? what up GST?

Put our heart together vote them out and these what levy and GST will not appear in "our ungrateful third world minions face"

 

[shunquan]

What up casion levy? what up GST?

Put our heart together vote them out and these what levy and GST will not appear in "our ungrateful third world minions face"

Yeah, lower the GST, then you have to increase the income tax back to pre-GST levels. Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[scroobal]

I think the arguments on both sides have been at each end of spectrum. One side thinks that people will kill themselves on a daily basis as gambling woes increase and the other side thinks that everyman is sane and rational and must be given the freedom to do anything.

The reality is no society is going to collapse because of casinos in close proximity but one can reasonably expect personal and societal issues from gambling in view of the casinos access and proximity. Much of the necessary controls are in place and probably needs tweaking here and there.

It will be good if the government appoints an independent body to monitor and report on a annual basis the impact on Singapore society on gaming.

On a personal note, if they increase the levy, knowing the Chinese mentality, the locals will punt more to cover the levy and expose themselves to bigger losses

For the PAP, this is a political hit potato. The years of gambling raids to close gambling dens which were then rife over decades now seems surreal. The colonial authorities and the PAP did realise that Gambling is a race affliction where the Chinese is concerned. Thus the need to be careful.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Ramseth

People or citizen's are prone to vices or addictions of various sorts. Its a human weakness in many of us. The question is the nature of that addiction, versus the pleasure it brings , versus the danger it brings. Studies of addiction whether chemical or gambling or drug related have all centered on how addiction stimulates certain pleasure receptors in the brain, causing a high. That high is of course distinct in terms of frequency or degree of high. For example the pleasure one gets from smoking is different from the high one might get from say alcohol or say drugs and gambling.

Gambling brings a high which is why addiction to gambling happens. The problem and Casino's prey and take advantage of this weakness is how they go about taking advantage of this weakness.

The key here is frequency frequency frequency, how often can one get a high from making that bet on football ? The matches are once a week say 150 160 matches a season over months ? For gambling addiction the high results from making a bet on one particular outcome, multiple bet's on the same outcome derive less pleasure. Hence ToTo Pools etc offer controlled gambling though it will have its social ills.

A Casino goes through 30 hands of blackjack in an hour, 30 plus spins of the roulette in an hour, the lights and environment are designed to remove all sense of time from the gambler as are the bright lights. Note the total absence of clocks in a Casino. free flow of alcohol for the highest betters, etc etc That is why the Casino is a differing kettle of fish in terms of the harm it will cause.

Food for thought, if the cigarette companies sold you nicotine high or relaxation in a tablet , in which you get your high in 15 secs versus the 10 mins it took from a smoking do u not believe that for one min no gov would not ban the product ?




Locke

 

[silverfox@]

Gambling brings a high which is why addiction to gambling happens. The problem and Casino's prey and take advantage of this weakness is how they go about taking advantage of this weakness.

Actually the govt should get more feedback and do more studies instead of taking the easiest shortcut method, increase levy.

Imagine now I enter the casino and pay $100 levy. I know I will only win about 5 times of what I bet, so if I bet $25, I can only win $125, minus the levy, I go home with $25 winnings. The next thing is, I will instead bet $100. Because betting $100, 5 times will be $500 and minus the levy, i can/or will go home with $400 if i win 5 times of what I bet.

If the levy goes up to $500 per visit, I am a hard core gambler and I really must gamble, so you need to count how much I will take out and gamble per hand. I will bet at least $400-$500 per hand.

It's the same thing as buying shares, there is brokerage fees. With a min of $25 brokerage fee, it would be stupid to buy 1 lot of shares at $1/- and people will choose to buy more to cover the brokerage fee. This is human nature. If we do not have human nature in us, we are not humans already/

Removing levy entirely, will expose more Singaporeans to visit because they want to go and take a look, since its free (Who doesn't want? Marina Bay Sands Casino is quite nice comparing with other casinos in the world). They see this person with his stacks of chips winning hundreds and thousands. Though they don't gamble, they decided to have a small bet for fun since they are already in the casino. If they play for an hour, they get $1000, they will think next week go again. If they lose $1000 which is possible too, they will start thinking next week go again and try to recover.

The $100 levy has deterred all those Singaporeans who just want to go and take a look. It's evident from online responses and also from people in this forum. That is the main objective of what the levy is for, (though we also knew it adds on to govt revenue). The $100 levy however will not deter anyone who really wants to gamble. Increasing the levy will increase everyone's bet which in turn causes more harm than good.

You see, the govt looks at 1 level which is increase levy, less people go in. However they mislook the part where those who go in will simply bet more, which in turn increases their losses if they lose.

The key here is frequency frequency frequency, how often can one get a high from making that bet on football ? The matches are once a week say 150 160 matches a season over months ? For gambling addiction the high results from making a bet on one particular outcome, multiple bet's on the same outcome derive less pleasure. Hence ToTo Pools etc offer controlled gambling though it will have its social ills.

Soccer have S-League, J-League, EPL, ISA, SPL, GBL, Cup games, I am not sure whether they have the K-League or even the Miscellaneous smaller league divisions which they might add in if there is demand. If a person has no self control, whatever he gamble, even Toto or 4D $1 min bet also can bet hundreds and thousands. I am not sure whether you queue at SG pools booth but you can see people buying 4D not buy $10 or $20. They are buying $200-$300 per result day. 1 month easily $3000-$4000. My auntie buys 4D 1 month easily $2000, does she have a gambling problem? She is not in any financial difficulties and she knows if she doesn't hit, she will lose that amount. It has easily been a regular amount for her for the past 8 years. This amount may seem a lot, but this amount must be comfortable for her, if not she wouldn't have been buying consistently for the past 8 years. Buying 4D and hitting 1st prize is 1 out of 10,000times, hitting a prize is 23 out of 10,000 times. Payout and stats is even worst than roulette, but people are still buying. Why? Because 4D days happens only 3 times a week, so no one complain.

A Casino goes through 30 hands of blackjack in an hour, 30 plus spins of the roulette in an hour, the lights and environment are designed to remove all sense of time from the gambler as are the bright lights. Note the total absence of clocks in a Casino. free flow of alcohol for the highest betters, etc etc That is why the Casino is a differing kettle of fish in terms of the harm it will cause.

Food for thought, if the cigarette companies sold you nicotine high or relaxation in a tablet , in which you get your high in 15 secs versus the 10 mins it took from a smoking do u not believe that for one min no gov would not ban the product ?

Locke

Yes, you are right, there is no clock, it is a differing kettle of fish in terms of the harm it will cause. Actually there are quite a few regular faces I have seen in the casinos. Sometimes we walk past we say hi to each other. And the thing in common is we know what we are in for when we are in the casino. I don't say we are experienced. I would say most of those regulars are seasoned gamblers. They know what they are in for and what they are doing, how much can win and can lose how much.

The levy has already deterred many people from going. (These people are the ones who are not willing to lose $100 before they step into the casino. That's good.) So those who went in are already prepared to lose $100. This is the mindset of people who gamble. Is an extra of $200-$300 going to help? (Maybe it will prevent those who are not willing to lose $300-$400 before they step into casino, but those who are willing to do that, will maximise their bets.) Remember one thing, the casinos are not afraid of you winning them. The casinos are only afraid you do not gamble. The casinos are most afraid of people who step into the casino win some money and leave the casino.

Marina Bay Sands is one of the "quietest" casino I ever seen. During peak days like weekends, its not even 80% full. By stroke of midnight, you can see half the casino empty. This is something you don't even see that at Genting Malaysia. On weekdays its only about 60-70% full at its peak hours with only 70% of tables opened. So is this piece of news assuring people that the turnout is not high or the casino being packed with human traffic?

Of course soon with what I wrote here about the turnout of MBS casino, I hope there would not be anyone who start writing, "See, the casinos in Singapore have no people want to go and destined to fail"

Turn out high, people complain,
Turn out low, people complain also. :p

I think its basically a part of Singaporean nature to complain. No complaints, life cannot go on. :p

 

[aurvandil]

The reality is no society is going to collapse because of casinos in close proximity but one can reasonably expect personal and societal issues from gambling in view of the casinos access and proximity. Much of the necessary controls are in place and probably needs tweaking here and there.

Referring to the Wikipedia link, Singapore’s suicide rate is 10.3 per 100,000 per year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

This ranks Singapore as 47 in the list of countries. If we carry on with the current levy system, the suicide rate due to problem gambling will almost certainly rise and Singapore will move up the table into the Top 20. Ditto for the number of homeless people. We don’t have an official homeless statistic so I cannot provide a link. Ad hoc estimates put the number of homesless in the hundreds. This will rise to the thousands if we allow problem gambling to take root in Singapore.

Will this collapse Singapore society?

I hardly think so.

Will this make Singapore a worse place to live in?

Most definitely so. The worst part about it is that we will not have any corresponding economic gain. Given the record profits they are earning, the casinos will obviously not go bankrupt if we increase the casino levy. If we replace the levy with casino card based system, the casinos might even make more money since they would have a larger customer base as opposed to a narrow customer base that is perpetual danger of problem gambling.