Bitcoin & cyptocurrencies

[zhihau]

Bitcoin went over $12,000 and the sky seemed to be the limit.

That aside, what are the prospects of cryptocurrencies? Overtake the fiat currencies we use in this day and age?

I beseech the collective wisdom of our SBF bros to give their take on this. Pweety please?

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

heard that $20,000 will be reality very soon.

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

Bitcoin broke above the $12,000 mark Wednesday (6 Dec ) morning Asia-time, as the cryptocurrency continued its march higher.

As of 11:33 a.m. SIN/HK, the digital token was selling for $12,198.57, according to industry site CoinDesk.

The asset began 2017 at less than $1,000 per token, but it has been on an absolute tear in recent months: It crossed $5,000 in October and touched above $11,000 for the first time less than two months later, according to CoinDesk data.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/05/bitcoin-price-breaks-above-12000-for-new-all-time-high-record.html

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

 

[hofmann]

Fiat currency is legal tender whose value is backed by the government that issued it. -says uncle google.

Crypto? Who backs it/ guarantees it's value? No one in particular, except for the forces of demand and supply.

What can I buy with one bit coin? USD 11k today, but only in so far as someone will want to trade me some Fiat money for it.

Crypto currency is still pegged to the value of Fiat currency, and adds a layer of inconvenience in exchange for anonymity.

Why do I need to be annonymous when I buy a chai latte from Starbucks?

But I do need to be annonymous if I'm buying a nuclear warhead from Pakistan for example.

Crypto currency will probably work well in failed states like Angola.

Will it replace gold? Gold has been around since before the days of the Abrahamic religions. The story of gods and gold goes hand in hand. So until and unless god is displaced, it will be hard for crypto to replace gold (as a store of value.)

But what's fascinating about Bitcoin is that it's supply is limited (21 million coins,) so rather than inflation (from increasing money supply), Bitcoin leads to a state of perpetual deflation. My chai latte will cost less and less over time in terms of bitcoins. So it's natural for it's value to increase over time as supply is fixed, and (if) demand increases. It also discourages consumption and encourages saving by virtue of it's increasing value over time.

It is the diametric opposite of Fiat money.

 

[Ash007]

From an investment point of view you need to figure out the value of something like bitcoin. For me, that is anonymity. I've pissed off people when I've said bitcoin is very valuable for drug dealers and people smugglers. Also, with every fork, you are doubling the supply, so far bitcoin has forked out 2 times that I've known of. Would you want something that keeps doubling in units everytime someone wants to do something different?

 

[bushtucker]

it is easy for any analyst to say that bitcoin, cryptocurrency and the like are speculative bubbles.

what are the real criteria or factors that will cause these bubbles to burst? split currencies? new currency introduced to undermine bitcoin? blockchain dilution?

some insights below:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/13/bit...-heres-how-its-going-to-crash-ron-insana.html

 

[Wunderfool]

Bitcoin reminds me of the tulip bulb bubble.

Background

When: 1634-1637

Where: Holland

In 1593 tulips were brought from Turkey and introduced to the Dutch. The novelty of the new flower made it widely sought after and therefore fairly pricey. After a time, the tulips contracted a non-fatal virus known as mosaic, which didn't kill the tulip population but altered them causing "flames" of color to appear upon the petals. The color patterns came in a wide variety, increasing the rarity of an already unique flower. Thus, tulips, which were already selling at a premium, began to rise in price according to how their virus alterations were valued, or desired. Everyone began to deal in bulbs, essentially speculating on the tulip market, which was believed to have no limits.

The true bulb buyers (the garden centers of the past) began to fill up inventories for the growing season, depleting the supply further and increasing scarcity and demand. Soon, prices were rising so fast and high that people were trading their land, life savings, and anything else they could liquidate to get more tulip bulbs. Many Dutch persisted in believing they would sell their hoard to hapless and unenlightened foreigners, thereby reaping enormous profits. Somehow, the originally overpriced tulips enjoyed a twenty-fold increase in value - in one month!

Needless to say, the prices were not an accurate reflection of the value of a tulip bulb. As it happens in many speculative bubbles, some prudent people decided to sell and crystallize their profits. A domino effect of progressively lower and lower prices took place as everyone tried to sell while not many were buying. The price began to dive, causing people to panic and sell regardless of losses.

Dealers refused to honor contracts and people began to realize they traded their homes for a piece of greenery; panic and pandemonium were prevalent throughout the land. The government attempted to step in and halt the crash by offering to honor contracts at 10% of the face value, but then the market plunged even lower, making such restitution impossible. No one emerged unscathed from the crash. Even the people who had locked in their profit by getting out early suffered under the following depression.

The effects of the tulip craze left the Dutch very hesitant about speculative investments for quite some time. Investors now can know that it is better to stop and smell the flowers than to stake your future upon one.

 

[johnny333]

Anyone remember e-gold? You don't hear about e-gold anymore.

Bitcoins may eventually share the same fate as e-gold.

 

[nayr69sg]

all I would say is....enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[spotter542]

IMHO , 916 and 999 are much more safer

 

[eatshitndie]

you can trust sinkies to sniff out the best deals and then get burned. and they kpkb to no end. such is the full life cycle of a sinkie.

 

[zhihau]

just past $13,000

 

[nayr69sg]

you can trust sinkies to sniff out the best deals and then get burned. and they kpkb to no end. such is the full life cycle of a sinkie.

And go temple to pray. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sinkies really damn super super super super fucking dumb shit pool of fermenting vomitus.

I mean seriously, you interview first world person about losing money to these scams who will give such answer I am going to temple to pray?

People talk about getting lawyer to sue, class action lawsuits etc.

Not hocus pocus sit around passive hope for the best. Sinkie trait is passive. Kpkb. Hope someone solve problem for them. Ask them pay money hire expert they say why waste money?

Sinkie mentality. Everything don't want to DIY don't want to hire. just hope magic.

 

[ChanRasjid]

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_un...edium_of_speculation/?st=ja8azm0p&sh=388ca253

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_un.../the_cult_of_bitcoin/?st=ja8g9tgn&sh=9125a835

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_un...may_2018_below_20000/?st=ja57uj6y&sh=8f65fac3

Bitcoin was introduced in 2009 and traded initially for token price of a dollar. Today it broke USD 14,000 - increasing 14,000 times in a matter of 8 years!

Ever since the dot.com crash, the US government has been doing "quantitative easy" which is an euphemism for printing money to prop up the stock market. With the crash of 2008, more money printing was was needed in the world, this time with the help of the Chinese government. So now interest rates have been pushed down to zero or below zero in most countries.

This is crazy economics. The idea is to ensure people keep spending their income and not saving to counter any immediate global economic depression. So people with surplus money have not many choices where to put their money. The one sure safe way of savings deposit now gives negative returns after accounting for inflation.

I think bitcoin was invented by a very intelligent person or group of persons. They have a very good perception of human psychology, of what the world's common masses are thinking and what they wanted. For many decades, people have been saying the fiat monetary system is cut-throat and wanted a return to the gold standard. They say the Illuminati is trying to create a one world government through controlling money and banking. So they discovered the blockchain technology and put it to use in bitcoin which just fits the bill:
1) bitcoin as true decentralized money no one can manipulate.
2) as a medium of exchange and payment to finally make fiat money obsolete.
3) limited amount to 21 million by 2140. Deflationary instead of inflationary.
4) many other positive features as explained in the official websites as in bitcoin.org

I refute every single claim that the official views proclaim about the benefits or usefulness of bitcoin. My personal view after examining it is :

Bitcoin's only use is as a medium of speculation. ​

Financial speculation is a zero sum game that only transfers money from the weak hands to the strong hands. It is well known that only the top 5% wins from the loss of the bottom 95%. So bitcoin is an invention whose purpose is to concentrate an even greater amount of the world's money to the top 5%.

He who controls the world' money controls the world.​

The current bitcoin world is controlled by the bitcoin exchanges as it is they who decide who can register to buy or sell bitcoins - all persons' identities have to be revealed to them and no anonymity is allowed. So the owners of the bitcoin exchanges are kings and they may collaborate with whomever they choose.

The current unimaginable dramatic rise of the bitcoin price is due to pump-and-dump and the common buyers believe that if only they hold on to a few tens of bitcoins, they would become millions in a matter of 2/3 years - this is the current belief that the exponential rise is unique to bitcoin because this time around there is no bubble, unlike the past Tulip Bubble. Their belief:

Bitcoin is a unique beast and the exponential rise in price against fiat currencies is a natural property of bitcoin. ​

Chan Rasjid
E=mc2 wrong:
http://www.emc2fails.com

 

[zhihau]

past $15,000

 

[ChanRasjid]

past $15,000

I knew that. Only made a slip.

To continue...rambling about the ills of bitcoin...

The bitcoin media like to promote the idea that bitcoin is the ultimate store of value that has displaced even gold. It is far, far away from the truth. Gold will remain as a precious metal - for 10,000 years, 一万年 - until the alchemists could successfully turn iron into gold. Bitcoin could go down to zero tomorrow if Donald Trump decides to close down all US bitcoin exchanges.

China made the smart move to close down all bitcoin exchanges as it becomes difficult for its citizens from getting into the ultimate 95% of losers. Many Chinese have become rich with money to invest and they were chasing bitcoins prior to Mt. Gox in 2013 and also in early 2017. After the collapse of the Chinese stocks, they go for bitcoins believing that bitcoin is the panacea for false fiat currencies. Due to the huge population of China, this group is significant and was fueling the bitcoin rise. These common small investors can never win over the professional gambling cartels manipulating bitcoin.

It is difficult to predict when this bitcoin bubble would burst or how high it will go. You need a Shao Yong 邵雍 of the Song dynasty to predict correctly.

Chan Rasjid.

 

[ChanRasjid]

The 7 Signs Of An Empire In Decline.


The 8th sign peculiar to our time is the appearance and promotion of cryptocurrencies to fool the general population to hand over more of their money to the rich cartels.

Chan Rasjid.

 

[CoffeeAhSoh]

past $15,000

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past USD $15,500