Barisan socialis come back to challenge PAP

[scroobal]

Scroobal,

After recently doing some further reading on these issues, I am now more convinced on balance that Lim Chin Siong was indeed a communist or at least under communist influence.
Cheers

By the way, forgot to add that the British Special Branch and the Colonial Govt in Singapore were salaried staff and had no political leadership aspiration and they were not locals. Their assessment based on intelliegence and evidence would have been more objective in tagging someone as communist. At that time, they would routinely catch these guys and banish them to the motherland. So they would have done it gto Chin Siong. Its for this reason that Plen and Eu remained hidden. Zaid was an anamoly and they could not banish to his own native country which is singapore.

As far as old man is concerned, anyone opposing him is a communist and that includes catholics with political views.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Scroobal,

Yes it is certainly a fascinating field.

Zaid's further indirect communist link may have been with the likes of Ahmad Boestaman and Samad Ismail.

On Chin Siong, I see where you are coming from (even including the famous tea meeting that Chin Siong and gang had with Lord Selkirk that must have driven LKY nuts at that time) and I thought likewise until I reread Plen's incomplete memoirs, Devan Nair's interview with Mel Chew and other materials, in particular the one prepared by the retired expert on this issue historian Lee.

Plen definitely implies that Chin Siong was a communist or at the very least under communist influence. Devan Nair said outright that Chin Siong was a communist. Those latest British declassified documents from Kew that were analysed by an Oz academic in Jing Quee's Comet book in homage to Chin Siong does not appear to absolve Chin Siong of being a communist altogether. Chin Peng appears to be equivocal when it comes to Chin Siong (in fact I think Chin Peng was protecting all Singapore commies and their families).

<<In that era, if you had compassion, intelligent and wanted to remove your fellow countrymen from the yoke colonial and feudalism abuse, you would have probably be a communist>>


Very well put Bro, my sentiments exactly. Reading about the likes of John Eber, "Toots" Lim Kean Chye, Sharma, the Hailam Kid, Gerald De Cruz, Devan Nair, Lim Chin Siong, young girls with pigtails turning up from nowhere to help PAPs (Dr Goh actually wondered "who the hell these young people were") et al I certainly got that impression. And yes I read about Devan's escapdes as a communist by Devan himself in his fascinating candid interview with Mel Chew. Felt abit sad for Devan as he was down and out in self exile in a small flat in KL when he was interviewed after falling out with LKY and getting ditched from the Istana for his apparent abberations.

I guess the full story is still out there waiting to be told but like you said most of the key actors have thus far been reluctant to shed full light one way or the other for reasons best known to themselves. CNA journalist Haslinda who is a niece of Samad Ismail wrote an interesting tribute to her uncle Pak Samad in Today when he recently died and curiously said that Samad never talked about his relationship with LKY and the goings on at PAP during those early years.

Btw if you have not already done so, I suggest you go read Mel Chew's fascinating book on Singapore Leadership where she has interviewed all the main actors over that period including Chin Siong, Devan, Toh, Goh, Raja, Lee Siew Choh et al only LKY turned down her request for an interview. Toh in fact revealed an interesting nugget on LKY, where he suggested that LKY may have suffered from stress fatigue straight after declaring Independence and was seen breaking down crying in public on more than one occasion, so much so that LKY went to Changi government chalets for 6 weeks to rejuvenate himself while the rest carried on running the government.

On the whole I would say that Singapore was blessed to have the collective leadership of the first generation that arose from that tumultous period over the 50s and 60s, although the collateral damage to the left socialists was regretful even though some did turn things around like James Fu.

Cheers

Bro, good on you. Its is indeed an interesting field.

.

There are however too many gaps and people like old man, chin peng are not talking. It will be interesting when the official oral archives are released. Eu's would be the best guide.

Here is a bit of trivia. By the way, Devan placed his legs on a box of explosives kept under a table where he wrote leftist propaganda. That box was meant for the MCP in the jungle. He was certainly one until Old Man got him across.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Did Corrigon and ilk from SB totally absolve Chin Siong as a communist?

As for LKY, you are 100% right on this one Bro, machiavelli Lee He literally appeared to throw the communist bogey at ALL his political enemies during cold store and beyond. In fact I read that he apparently even included Ong Eng Guan in the cold store original list but Tungku and SB took such outright baseless names off the list.

As for the 87' alleged marxist conspiracy, interestingly enough I just came across a newish book with commentary on the same, sorry can't recall the title now. In this book LKY himself was quoted providing some explanation on this dark episode, and he appeared to concede that the majority detained were just "do gooders helping the poor and the poor foreign workers and fighting social justice". It was the priests whom LKY was actually targetting. LKY had observed what had recently happened in Philippines where the RC church under Sin had played a pivotal role in Edsa I and the removal of Marcos, and when he got reports of certain priests apparently stirring things up and after a warning apparently went unheeded LKY decided to "nip things in the bud" true to form with sad and regretful collateral damage.

One thing I seem to have drawn from both cold store and spectrum is that there is always innocent sad regretful collateral damage involved in such dark government actions. Innocents with good hearts and intentions inevitably get caught in the cross hairs.

By the way, forgot to add that the British Special Branch and the Colonial Govt in Singapore were salaried staff and had no political leadership aspiration and they were not locals. Their assessment based on intelliegence and evidence would have been more objective in tagging someone as communist. At that time, they would routinely catch these guys and banish them to the motherland. So they would have done it gto Chin Siong. Its for this reason that Plen and Eu remained hidden. Zaid was an anamoly and they could not banish to his own native country which is singapore.

As far as old man is concerned, anyone opposing him is a communist and that includes catholics with political views.

 

[scroobal]

Scroobal,

Yes it is certainly a fascinating field.

Cheers

In my mind the key puppet masters figures were old man, samad, eu, kean chye, ahmad and the plen.

chin siong, fong and the middle road gang were pretty much genuine leaders with genuine convictions but ended up being controlled by the lot above although they did not seem to mind being part of the communist front. Chin Siong was particulary close to Ahmad.

The man who linked the "pernakan gang" to the middle road gang was interestingly samad. he was original member of the oxley cellar gang and founding member of the pap. Its interesting how samad, lim and fong came together when their language and community background differed. PAP would not got off the ground if Samad did not pave the way.

As you mentioned Samad's niece, let me bring up samad's nephew who got offered a local merit scholarship many years ago. Just before entering NUS, he was contacted by ISD to be their informant within the student community. Obviously these chaps did not do their homework and threathen him with withdrawal of the scholarship if he did not agree. Nephew proceeded immediately to PSC to complain. PSC called up Dir ISD and fucked the living daylights out of him. Within an hr, Nephew gets a call from the chap who threathened him, begging forgiveness.

Ever wondered if these sensitive data of that era has been been embargoed from our Intelligence boys?

Samad was the ultimate operator. Even the British loved him. Many felt that he was much more smarter than old man. Did you notice that old man and the old guards including Raja did not speak of Samad until the day that he was arrested by KL authorities and suddenly old man parised the KL govt for their actions.

As you rightly pointed, Chin Peng is protecting families of communists. And so is old man, the old guards, and the business establishment.

By the way, Gerald's wife Coral was David Marshall's longest serving confidential secretary - go figure! David as you know had an intense hatred for communist that Tungku had to restrain him during the ill fated Baling talks.

 

[Kid278]

i read you... a large number of folks can't even tell the difference between a government and any given political party :(

Exactly, rather than regurgitate what that's been said I will just add that it'll take more than miracles to turn things around, if there're such things. Will there be a new dawn, I dont think so. At least not in the near furure, in such climates, in this generation.:p

 

[cleareyes]

You must be a low-level PAP dog sent here to attack a fellow forummer. Why do you get personal when all that I've done was to highlight what Singapore's biggest MONGREL Lee Kuan Yew had done to protect and safeguard his avaricious greed for more power and wealth?

It's fascist Lee who had engineered the removal of the Barisan from his rubber-stamp parliament. Now, Lee Kuan Yew's parliament is nothing but a fully air-conditioned chamber for PAP fat cats and approved charlatans to take their afternoon nap after a heavy meal.

r u sure? or u just cook up something just to defend ur view to the point that even the veteran Barisan leaders, such as the late Dr Lee would strongly disagree?



Dr Lee Siew ChohBy Tien, Mui Mun
written on 2003-01-06
National Library Board Singapore

Comments on article: InfopediaTalk


Lee Siew Choh (Dr) (b. 1 November 1917, Kuala Lumpur, Malaya - d. 18 July 2002, Singapore), a Cantonese, a former Barisan Sosialis leader, the first Non-Constituency Member of Parliament (NMP) and a vocal opposition leader who set the record for holding the longest speech in Parliament at seven hours and thirteen minutes opposing the proposed merger with Malaysia. He is also best remembered for leading the Barisan Members of Parliament to boycott the first Parliamentary session in 1965.

Early life
In 1934 , after graduating from Victoria Institution, Kuala Lumpur, Lee came to Singapore to study medicine at King Edward VII College of Medicine. Upon graduating in 1942, he joined Kandang Kerbau (KK) Hospital as a doctor. A volunteer nurse whom he met at the hospital became his wife a year later when they married during the Japanese occupation. He was sent to work as a medical officer for two years at the Thai-Burmese border where prisoners of war were building the Death Railway for the Japanese. In 1947, he set up his own medical practice, the International Dispensary, at Hill Street.

Political career
PAP member
Being an anti-colonialist and with the persuasion of Dr Goh Keng Swee, Lee joined the People's Action Party (PAP) in 1958. In 1959, he was elected as Legislative Assemblyman for Queenstown. He was appointed Parliamentary Secretary to the Home Affairs Ministry the following year.

Opposition leader
In 1961, he left the People's Action Party due to differences over the proposed merger with Malaysia and formed the Barisan Sosialis as its founding chairman on 13 August 1961. He is well-known for his record-breaking speech of seven and half hours spread over two days in 1961, in which he argued over the merger issue with Malaysia.

In 1963, he was detained for allegedly participating in the City Hall Riots. In the 1963 election, his party won 13 seats although he lost his Rochor seat. After the separation from Malaysia in 1965, he and 13 of his party members boycotted the first parliamentary session and later resigned. Again, his party refused to participate in the 1968 election signalling their unhappiness over the PAP-led government.

When Barisan merged with the Workers' Party in 1988, he stood as a Worker's Party candidate in the Eunos GRC. He lost but became the first Non-Constituency MP when he garnered the largest number of votes among the losers.

He retired from politics in 1993. Lee succumbed to lung cancer after suffering for three years and passed away on 18 July 2002 at the age of 84. His memoirs remain unpublished.

Timeline
1942 : Doctor, Kandang Kerbau Hospital.
1947 : Set up his own medical practice, International Dispensary at Hill Street.
1959 : Joined People's Action Party.
1960 : Legislative Assemblyman for Queenstown.
1 Nov 1960 - 20 Jul 1961 : Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for Home Affairs.
13 Aug 1961 : Left the People's Action Party and form the Barisan Sosialis as the Founding Chairman.
1963 : Won 13 out of the 51 seats in the 1963 General Elections.
1965 : Led the Barisan Members of Parliament to boycott the first Parliamentary session.
1966 : Resigned from Parliament.
1988 : Merged Barisan with Workers' Party and contested as Workers' Party candidate in the General Election. He lost by a margin of 1,279 votes in the Eunos Group Representation Constituency (GRC).
1989 - 1991 : Appointed as a Non-Constituency Member of Parliament for polling the highest votes among the losers at the 1988 General Election.
1993 : Resigned from Workers' Party.

Family
Father: Lee Fook Chuen, a Chinese school teacher.
Mother: Yim Kam.
Wife: Kathleen Fam Yin Oi , a retired teacher and sister of Fraser and Neave, Chairman Michael Fam.
Sons: Lee Yew Chung, a doctor; Lee Yew Keong, a dental surgeon.
Daughter: Lee Yu Lian, a lawyer.



Author
Jenny Tien

 

[cleareyes]

Yes, but at the end of the day BS made the mistakes of the walkout and the boycott, of their own accord. It cannot blame LKY, the British and Tungku for those mistakes. And Dr Lee in his interview with Mel Chew was honest enough to concede to these strategic mistakes in hindsight. Like it or not, LKY was the smarter, more cunning and foxy politician than his political enemies and that is why he eventually ended up being the political victor.

UNFORTUNATLY this is what is happening. instead of blaming themselves, as in this case, BS for been so foolish and politically naive, we have folks here who try to make it look like its PAP's or anyone elses' fault.

itrs kind of stupid to do this when the late Dr Lee himself had admit to such a folly.

i wonder why some people just refuse to accept what had actually happened.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Thanks for sharing your information and insight as always Bro. Wondering if you can fill in some gaps which still arouse my curiosity. Plen mentioned 3 chaps were sanctioned by CPM to oversee the Singapore United Front activities(Singapore Town Council?). I gather Eu and Plen were 2 of them. Do you know who was the 3rd person?

Now I gather LKY claims that Robert Loh Boon Siew first introduced LKY to Chin Siong. However in Chin Siong's interview with Mel Chew, Chin Siong denies that it was Loh who introduced him to LKY. Curiously enough, he did not go on to reveal the identity of that person. I must say that in that same interview, Chin Siong was gracious enough to concede that economic wise LKY had done a good job although he did lament at the rise of moneytheism being the be all and end all (somewhat similar to Tan Wah Piow's comments in an interview afew years ago).

Yes Samad seems to have been quite a giant of a man both intellectually and character wise. Hope to see some books on him delving into these sensitive areas in the near future.

As for David Marshall, I gather the UF were apparently once considering whether to throw their lot in with him before they went with LKY. Toh Chin Chye related a hilarious nugget to Mel Chew on an episode with David. David invited Toh and LKY (this was in the mid 50s) for a sumptuous dinner with wine to discuss the possibility of grouping together. LKY and Toh made cheeky remarks about David being good hearted but too soft and woolly for such rough and tumble politics that was being played out at that time this irked David so much that he left in a huff and Toh and LKY scoffed themselves and enjoyed the wine at David's expense:p Oh and Gerald told of a late night rendevous along upper thomsom road between him and LKY where LKY wanted to know if Coral had shared any information about David's activities/plans. Gerald said Coral would never disclose such private and confidential information and LKY left it at that. Talk about tinker tailor soldier spy ala LKY style

To sum up, LKY no doubt with some lady luck on his side played the most masterfull cunning hand of political cards over the 50s and 60s to first secure political power and thereafter entrench and cement political power. Playing all the other actors British, Tungku, UF, left socialists for maximum political mileage. Hence Plen's bitter tirade against LKY (and the likes of Dennis Bloodsworth).

Another interesting question does arise with regards the Merger and Singapore being booted out alittle while later. Did LKY actually believe in the Merger or did he purposely 'engineer' Singapore's exit from M'sia after using the Tungku to get rid of the majority of his most dangerous political enemies? I may be wrong but I get the feeling that with LKY this may have been a fluid issue and he was trying to play both ends to get maximum advantage.

Finally I think there may have been another indirect key player of sorts behind the curtains. That person is LKY's wife. She would possibly know all the secrets, but I guess she shall be taking it with her when she finally passes on.

In my mind the key puppet masters figures were old man, samad, eu, kean chye, ahmad and the plen.

 

[scroobal]

Plen mentioned 3 chaps were sanctioned by CPM to oversee the Singapore United Front activities(Singapore Town Council?). I gather Eu and Plen were 2 of them. Do you know who was the 3rd person?.

Plen was not part of the 3 man team. The 2 together with Eu were Wong Meng Keong and Chiam Chong Chian. Plen was the field commander in Singapore. The 3 man team was too valuable and operated from Riau Islands.

Now I gather LKY claims that Robert Loh Boon Siew first introduced LKY to Chin Siong. However in Chin Siong's interview with Mel Chew, Chin Siong denies that it was Loh who introduced him to LKY. Curiously enough, he did not go on to reveal the identity of that person. .

Certainly Samad. Notice the practice of "Omerta" by both sides.

I must say that in that same interview, Chin Siong was gracious enough to concede that economic wise LKY had done a good job although he did lament at the rise of moneytheism being the be all and end all (somewhat similar to Tan Wah Piow's comments in an interview afew years ago)..

Yes.

Yes Samad seems to have been quite a giant of a man both intellectually and character wise. Hope to see some books on him delving into these sensitive areas in the near future..

Unfortunately Samad took his secrets to his grave. Even his family and friends have no clue. I suspect only Lim Kean Chye and Eu knew him the best with Eu spending time with Samad in Indonesia when Tungku forced his exile. I have made some queries along these lines but have come across a wall.

As for David Marshall, I gather the UF were apparently once considering whether to throw their lot in with him before they went with LKY.

The orginal target for UF was indeed Marshall but the Plen screwed it up by removing the only high level plant they had in WP. Plen for some reason thought that old man was closer to their cause and history has shown that the Plen was royally screwed. [/QUOTE]

Toh Chin Chye related a hilarious nugget to Mel Chew on an episode with David. David invited Toh and LKY (this was in the mid 50s) for a sumptuous dinner with wine to discuss the possibility of grouping together. LKY and Toh made cheeky remarks about David being good hearted but too soft and woolly for such rough and tumble politics that was being played out at that time this irked David so much that he left in a huff and Toh and LKY scoffed themselves and enjoyed the wine at David's expense:p Oh and Gerald told of a late night rendevous along upper thomsom road between him and LKY where LKY wanted to know if Coral had shared any information about David's activities/plans. Gerald said Coral would never disclose such private and confidential information and LKY left it at that. Talk about tinker tailor soldier spy ala LKY style

To sum up, LKY no doubt with some lady luck on his side played the most masterfull cunning hand of political cards over the 50s and 60s to first secure political power and thereafter entrench and cement political power. Playing all the other actors British, Tungku, UF, left socialists for maximum political mileage. Hence Plen's bitter tirade against LKY (and the likes of Dennis Bloodsworth)..

yes. Well it seemed all sqaured away with Plen's son given an engineering job at Singapore Technologies

Another interesting question does arise with regards the Merger and Singapore being booted out alittle while later. Did LKY actually believe in the Merger or did he purposely 'engineer' Singapore's exit from M'sia after using the Tungku to get rid of the majority of his most dangerous political enemies? I may be wrong but I get the feeling that with LKY this may have been a fluid issue and he was trying to play both ends to get maximum advantage..

Old Man then and now was always a practical man. He was smart enough to know that this Island needs a hinterland for the long haul lest we become a service whorehouse which we are now. Never in his wildest dreams did he expect Tungku to come out with such a solution. It also caught the Malays including Razak and rest of Umno and BN by surprise. Razak however was loyal to Tungku and that gentleman tun dr Ismail carried out the task of separation. They also rightly guessed that Goh Keng Swee was dying to see the back of his Cousin, the then Finance Minister. Old Man was righly screwed together with Albar - the 2 main troublemakers at that time. Only Tungku and Keng Swee wanted separation while Tun Ismail saw the wisdom as the Minister of Home affairs. One should note that while Keng Swee, Razak and Ismail was dealing at the latter's house, only Barker knew. By the way, Keng Swee and Razak were mates during Raffles College days.

In a nutshell, he did not expect it at all. Tungku took a non-negotiable position. Old man however aspired to lead Malaysia.

Finally I think there may have been another indirect key player of sorts behind the curtains. That person is LKY's wife. She would possibly know all the secrets, but I guess she shall be taking it with her when she finally passes on.

I am not underestimating your acumen, but I am indeed surprised that you mentioned her. Yes, from the very start. It was her who refused to allow Philip Haolim to attend the Cellar meetings. Apparently she has been key to many decisions. When Old Man met Plen for the first time in China after donkey years, guess who wanted to be in the same meeting. That meeting helped to fill gaps that remained for 30 years in both sides of the causeway.

By the way, she sat in the same school van for 4 years with Keng Swee as both their fathers were friends. Well before she met old man. The world is indeed small. Eu was very close to Keng Swee as well. It was Keng Swee that led to rehabilitation and return of all ex-communist. He persuaded Old Man. Old Man however did not yield when it came to the Plen and neither did Mahathir when it came to Chin Peng.

 

[scroobal]

Many of communist cadre members carried so many aliases that their true identity was a major issue even to fellow communist.This was further complicated by their cell structure. Special branch for accuracy tend to use the Chinese characters to tag them.

I understand that these guys lived such a secretive lives that when released from Changi despite the years went back into hiding never to be seen again.

Wee Mon Cheng mystery I guess is for another time.

 

[Kid278]

UNFORTUNATLY this is what is happening. instead of blaming themselves, as in this case, BS for been so foolish and politically naive, we have folks here who try to make it look like its PAP's or anyone elses' fault.

itrs kind of stupid to do this when the late Dr Lee himself had admit to such a folly.

i wonder why some people just refuse to accept what had actually happened.

You dont know exactly and how those actual events happened during those turbulent times. What people read are different versions from different people who for some reasons seems to be holding back certain details and not telling. You cant piece together a true picture of that period when there're contradictions here and there. And with many of those fallen heroes long gone.

You can have the opinion of BS being polically naive but you cant deny the facts that LKY and the PAP actually had a hand in *Coldstore* and continued to invoke that draconian law to take down BS. ISD is for dictators, had it not for this law BS would not have been crippled and slowly declined, it may still be around. We will be looking at a different singapore, for better or for worst.

It's true that Dr Lee apologized for the fatal error in '66 and admitted it was a grave mistake but it was not an admission of folly simple as what you think. It's a difficult time in that turbulent era in the sixties and though PAP may not have dealt the killer blow, it cannot deny the fact that continued ISD arrests played a part in BS giving up the political struggle, thus the strategic blunder.

 

[scroobal]

You dont know exactly and how those actual events happened during those turbulent times. What people read are different versions from different people who for some reasons seems to be holding back certain details and not telling. You cant piece together a true picture of that period when there're contradictions here and there. And with many of those fallen heroes long gone.

This part of history has not been disputed by any of the players from both sides, political observers and the man in the street including BS and Dr Lee. It was a strategic error of judgement and its happens to the best of us. There are no contradictions.

As to the old man and the PAP doing every trick in the book to keep them out is pretty much there for all to see. The Leopard does not lose it spots, the tiger its stripes and we have seen Chengsan, Anson disappear, Houngang in Marine Parade, elected opposition MPS not in charge of community development funds and the ward while PAP rejected candidates who become advisors are.

We do a great disservice to the opposition cause if we don't make an attempt to read up on our history, learn from the mistakes but very liberally give false facts, excuses and pretend that the world is not round.

 

[myjohnson]

We do a great disservice to the opposition cause if we don't make an attempt to read up on our history, learn from the mistakes but very liberally give false facts, excuses and pretend that the world is not round.

It is our refusal to see and critique that allows the PAP the sole exclusive liberty to paint the canvas of history from their own perspective and proclaim it as the true rendition of facts.

 

[one2unite]

After the separation from Malaysia in 1965, he and 13 of his party members boycotted the first parliamentary session and later resigned.

Your attempt to present half-baked "facts" as truth is most telling.

How can Dr Lee boycott parliament in 1965 when he was not a member of the House? Furthermore, the Barisan MPs so-called boycott happened only in 1966, nearly thirteen months after Singapore's separation from Malaysia.

Throughout this period, repeated calls by BS MPs for the convening of Singapore's parliament fell on Lee Kuan Yew's deaf ears. The BS MPs even staged sit-ins in parliament precinct with makeshift tents. Subsequently, they were forced out of British lackey Lee Kuan Yew's rubber stamp parliament.

 

[one2unite]

This part of history has not been disputed by any of the players from both sides, political observers and the man in the street including BS and Dr Lee. It was a strategic error of judgement and its happens to the best of us. There are no contradictions.

Yes, agreed. But it was Harry Lee who engineered the "expulsion" of the remaining BS MPs from his moribund parliament in 1966.

 

[one2unite]

It is our refusal to see and critique that allows the PAP the sole exclusive liberty to paint the canvas of history from their own perspective and proclaim it as the true rendition of facts.

Lee Kuan Yew who's been repeatedly portrayed as eloquent, combative, remained silent when questioned by Chee Soon Juan about his role in removing Lim Chin Siong from Singapore politics at the recent high court defamation hearing.

While Lee went out of his way to elaborate and offer fresh evidence on other issues during cross-examination, he chose for strange reasons to remain like a mouse when questioned again and again about Lim.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Scroobal,

Excellent dialogue Bro

Those were indeed extraordinary dramatic historical times that threw up very interesting characters many of whom appeared to be motivated by pure noble ideals and principles. I guess even the communists and leftist socialists who were eventually 'defeated' by LKY and gang can still take heart in the fact that they had contributed to freeing Singapore from its colonial master. Perhaps this is the very least credit that history should accord to this 'defeated' group.

Cheers

Wee Mon Cheng mystery I guess is for another time.

 

[one2unite]

Scroobal,

Excellent dialogue Bro

Those were indeed extraordinary dramatic historical times that threw up very interesting characters many of whom appeared to be motivated by pure noble ideals and principles. I guess even the communists and leftist socialists who were eventually 'defeated' by LKY and gang can still take heart in the fact that they had contributed to freeing Singapore from its colonial master. Perhaps this is the very least credit that history should accord to this 'defeated' group.

Cheers

The British "favored son", stooge LKY did not defeat Lim Chin Siong the true leader of Singapore. It was Harry Lee's British handlers, together with the Malay aristocracy, who crippled the struggle against colonial oppression and exploitation.

By the way, the movement started by Lim and his group is still alive and not "defeated" at all. The struggle continues.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Facts of the matter are these:

Going by strict legal principles, I believe LKY and son did not necessarily need to participate in the cross examination. This was not a trial on liability only with regards damages.

From the cross examination it would appear that LKY took part in the proceedings to 'play around' with CSJ. On balance I think this plan to some extent backfired on LKY.

But in relation to CSJ's questions on Lim Chin Siong, I don't think it was strange for LKY to avoid the same. Those questions were 100% irrelevant to the case at hand. Note LKY only gave testimony on issues which he thought would either win him points in his argument that his model governance was right for Singapore or to give CSJ "sufficient rope to hang himself".

In any event, I don't think it is disputed that Chin Siong gave up politics for good and went into self exile in London because of the cumulative effect of his ISA detention spells and the collapse of BS from the outside.

Lee Kuan Yew who's been repeatedly portrayed as eloquent, combative, remained silent when questioned by Chee Soon Juan about his role in removing Lim Chin Siong from Singapore politics at the recent high court defamation hearing.

While Lee went out of his way to elaborate and offer fresh evidence on other issues during cross-examination, he chose for strange reasons to remain like a mouse when questioned again and again about Lim.

 

[zhihau]

It is our refusal to see and critique that allows the PAP the sole exclusive liberty to paint the canvas of history from their own perspective and proclaim it as the true rendition of facts.

spot on! we need diverse sources to have a better picture of the actual events that actually transpired...