Association of Muslim Professionals finally wake up and take their PAP partner.

[scroobal]

This can only happen if people around him are letting him hear what he wants to hear. I could not help notice that all his political life has fear effectively and he can't seem to get over it as a tool to manipulate the masses.

First it was communism, then it was Malaysia trying to undo us, then the marxist, then it was Malaysian again trying to start their own port to kill our trade, and now Islam. He never stops with his bogeyman politics.

He certainly divided the nation and he thinks that others are responsible.

Notice his habit of wearing the Mao jacket in his foreign travels - your comment about tribal roots.

I hope the Malays have good think who they want to represent their interest. The PAP is certainly not doing it.

perhaps, but Harry did insert Art.152 in the Constitution...oh no i may now hv given ammo to Poppy M.(u know who u r abang!!):p...
.

 

[Malays Must Vote PAP!]

this reminds me of the historic thomas cup competition held in s'pore between indonesia n china many yrs ago...where a large sector of the s'pore crowd cheered loudly wif relish for china...in mandarin no less...made me wonder whether i was in northern asia or in sea...n mind u this was decades ago...

If you had been around to hear the loud wails, chest beatings, accusations of "White racism", etc amongst these chang huayis (or "Singaporeans" as they like to foolishly delude themselves) when China lost the bid to host the 2000 Olympics to Australia, it would make you wonder too.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Slit eyed chang huayi chink, that's nothing and no reason for me to "twist and turn" in my own land and in the ancestral land of my forefathers.

You are the one who are trying to twist and turn because you know you are an unwanted slit -eyed chang huayi speaking chap sar tiam chink pendatang living on Malay soil and seeking to impose your unwanted language, customs and culture on our soil.

m&d so you finally admitted that you are a twisty turny snake.


m&d this is my home too okay asshole. You don't own this country alone.

 

[kingrant]

Re: Insightful POVS

However, I totally disagree that he should have brought this out in the open like this.

I daresay an old soldier like him knows exactly what he was doing. I think it is more like the good cop bad cop routine. He says the unmentionable as bad cop, and let his son play the good cop. His hard truth gets said, never mind if his son has to fight the rearguard action. The GE are coming. If it doesnt get thrashed out now, he has to hold his peace forever. I diidnt think he can stand it.

 

[kukubird58]

hahaha....don't quite understand the "Speak mandarin Campaign" is viewed as racist thing.
In my opinion, the campaign was aimed more at the older, less educated Chinese who speak dialects. The aim was for them to speak a common language, Mandarin. This group of Chinese pple is directly affected because overnight, there is no more cantonese serials, hokkien songs, etc on TV and Radio...
With everybody, getting basic education, the "speak Mandarin Campaign" has lost its relevance and hence rightly lower profile.

In short, the "Speak Mandarin Campaign" is never targetted at the Malays, Indians, Eurasians, etc...

 

[RoyMcFarland]

Re: Insightful POVS

I daresay an old soldier like him knows exactly what he was doing. I think it is more like the good cop bad cop routine. He says the unmentionable as bad cop, and let his son play the good cop. His hard truth gets said, never mind if his son has to fight the rearguard action. The GE are coming. If it doesnt get thrashed out now, he has to hold his peace forever. I diidnt think he can stand it.

You might be right....

 

[RoyMcFarland]

hahaha....don't quite understand the "Speak mandarin Campaign" is viewed as racist thing.
In my opinion, the campaign was aimed more at the older, less educated Chinese who speak dialects. The aim was for them to speak a common language, Mandarin. This group of Chinese pple is directly affected because overnight, there is no more cantonese serials, hokkien songs, etc on TV and Radio...
With everybody, getting basic education, the "speak Mandarin Campaign" has lost its relevance and hence rightly lower profile.

In short, the "Speak Mandarin Campaign" is never targetted at the Malays, Indians, Eurasians, etc...

It might have been intended as such but it is viewed by the non Mandarin speaking population as a "you are an outsider" situation. Especially when they say speak Mandarin at the wokplace.

 

[kukubird58]

It might have been intended as such but it is viewed by the non Mandarin speaking population as a "you are an outsider" situation. Especially when they say speak Mandarin at the wokplace.

hahaha......among the "educated" at the workplace, the common language is always English between different races.
The ones most directly affected are in fact the older, uneducated Chinese.
Not sure if you are a Chinese or were aware that dialect shows and songs were staple for this group of pple.

 

[Forvendet]

There's a difference as to why the Indians and Eurasians had to leave and why the Chinese emigrated.

The Indians and Eurasians (and Malays) were marginalised when it came to looking for jobs ("Mandarin speaking only", "Chinese only" job ads).

The social environment where you had to live alongside chang huayi Chinese who no longer behave like Singaporeans but like Chinamen who now own our Malay soil and can do as they please, had become intolerable.

The decades old and ongoing chauvinistic "Huaren, Huayi" campaigns introduced by the old fool to "unite" the Chinese and led by SAP Chinese extremists were rudely and insensitively intruding into their personal, social and especially common space like that of the workplace and public space had become intolerable.

I'm Eurasian and naturally, I can't agree with your Malay soil doctrine. But I do agree with you that the PAP language policies are very racially divisive. The Speak Mandarin campaign to unite Chinese also means keeping non-Chinese minorities segregated from the Chinese majority.

Shouldn't it be something to unite Singaporeans instead of just an ethnic group? What I don't understand is why would you advocate voting for PAP as your moniker suggests, when it's PAP that perpetrated such policies?

 

[syed putra]

i think there is no requirement for malays to integrate with "others".
they did not migrate here. they are merely staying in their homeland, but unfortunately, overwhelmed by migrants from other places.

they did not force restaurants to be certified "halal". it was done voluntarily by the owners.

if the annual office dinner have malays, you can order halal food whilst alcohol can be consumed by those who wish, in the office by catering. then veggies and buddhist/hindus can also have their fill. no pork/no beef is becoming the norm in many government agencies such as hospitals in malaysia, including flights on airasia and malaysian airlines for economy seats.

the "mother tongue" of many chinese families are not mandarin, but somehow, those with chinese nationalistic intent, manage to get their way. so today, singapore is no different than any chinese cities.

 

[Forvendet]

i think there is no requirement for malays to integrate with "others".
they did not migrate here. they are merely staying in their homeland, but unfortunately, overwhelmed by migrants from other places.

It's mirrored in requiring local Chinese to integrate with PRC immigrants.

they did not force restaurants to be certified "halal". it was done voluntarily by the owners.

Yes, if they want Muslim business, they voluntarily do that.

 

[RoyMcFarland]

hahaha......among the "educated" at the workplace, the common language is always English between different races.
The ones most directly affected are in fact the older, uneducated Chinese.
Not sure if you are a Chinese or were aware that dialect shows and songs were staple for this group of pple.

Of course the common language between the races is English. What other language would a Malay, Indian and Chinese converse to each other with?

I'm refering to the Speak Mandarin at work campaign which encourages Chinese Singaporeans to speak Mandarin to other Chinese Singaporeans. While this in theory should not affect the rest, it might, in reality cause problems when the conversation is work related and the minority worker is left out.

The other issue is when the non Chinese minority feel left out when everybody else in bantering in Mandarin. I've been working for the past 30 years and I've always worked in a majority Chinese workplace. (its hard not to in Singapore) For the first 15 years, everybody spoke English to each other. However in recent times, my educated Chinese colleagues speak Mandarin to each other, including work related discussions which is not an ideal situation.

 

[kukubird58]

The other issue is when the non Chinese minority feel left out when everybody else in bantering in Mandarin. I've been working for the past 30 years and I've always worked in a majority Chinese workplace. (its hard not to in Singapore) For the first 15 years, everybody spoke English to each other. However in recent times, my educated Chinese colleagues speak Mandarin to each other, including work related discussions which is not an ideal situation. [/COLOR][/COLOR]

I have worked for many years and I disagree that this is due to Speak Mandarin Campaign.
If I would like to hazard a guess, maybe they are the PRC FTs who naturally is more conversant in Mandarin.

Just to add my personal experience:
My Chinese friends and colleagues have never taken note of the Speak mandrain campaign to purposely speak mandarin to each other. The only occasions that we switched to Mandarin is to speak on sensitive issues which we don't want the other parties (Indians, English, German, Dutch, etc....) to understand.
My children has never spoken in Mandarin with me and their mother as everyday language.

 

[Ramseth]

Of course the common language between the races is English. What other language would a Malay, Indian and Chinese converse to each other with?

Mother tongue, I mean real mother tongue, not politically enforced mother tongue, would still be used among kins. That's alright with everybody.

I'm refering to the Speak Mandarin at work campaign which encourages Chinese Singaporeans to speak Mandarin to other Chinese Singaporeans. While this in theory should not affect the rest, it might, in reality cause problems when the conversation is work related and the minority worker is left out.

The other issue is when the non Chinese minority feel left out when everybody else in bantering in Mandarin. I've been working for the past 30 years and I've always worked in a majority Chinese workplace. (its hard not to in Singapore) For the first 15 years, everybody spoke English to each other. However in recent times, my educated Chinese colleagues speak Mandarin to each other, including work related discussions which is not an ideal situation.

I agree and empathise. But it's not as bad as sensitivity magnified it to be to non-Chinese. There's another angle to it. I once had a Taiwanese girlfriend and brought her to Singapore. She was commented that she was surprised that in Singapore, Chinese converse with each other in public. I just said that's the norm, it's EL1 English 1st Language in schools here afterall. Frankly, when I speak to GMS or even LTK in person, we use English as primary language too, interjecting with occasional Chinese phrases if these render a better understanding.

There were olden days when most of our Chinese grandparents could speak conversational Malay. Had the culture of Malay speaking continued, the Malays would be pleased and most local Indians and Chinese would have no problem with it, but the English-speaking immigrants or visitors would still feel the sensitivity of being excluded as outsider. I'm Chinese, but I agree English is not only the most profitable but also the most logical and functional choice for an unifying language in a multi-lingual society.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

I'm Eurasian and naturally, I can't agree with your Malay soil doctrine. But I do agree with you that the PAP language policies are very racially divisive. The Speak Mandarin campaign to unite Chinese also means keeping non-Chinese minorities segregated from the Chinese majority.

Shouldn't it be something to unite Singaporeans instead of just an ethnic group? What I don't understand is why would you advocate voting for PAP as your moniker suggests, when it's PAP that perpetrated such policies?

Hey it's not meant to divide up the non chinese races. You can also learn to speak chinese. Nobody is stopping anyone from learning how to speak mandarin.

You mentioned you are eurasian. What european and asian race are you mixed with?

If you're a chinese eurasian then hey you're actually supposed to learn mandarin unless you mean to tell me only 1 side of your parent's heritage is worth learning.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Of course the common language between the races is English. What other language would a Malay, Indian and Chinese converse to each other with?

I'm refering to the Speak Mandarin at work campaign which encourages Chinese Singaporeans to speak Mandarin to other Chinese Singaporeans. While this in theory should not affect the rest, it might, in reality cause problems when the conversation is work related and the minority worker is left out.

The other issue is when the non Chinese minority feel left out when everybody else in bantering in Mandarin. I've been working for the past 30 years and I've always worked in a majority Chinese workplace. (its hard not to in Singapore) For the first 15 years, everybody spoke English to each other. However in recent times, my educated Chinese colleagues speak Mandarin to each other, including work related discussions which is not an ideal situation.

hey hey the speak mandarin campaign is simply geared towards the chinese.

Anyway let's put it in another perspective. I see malays speaking malay to each other, indians speaking their own language to each other. If you're in a malay majority environment for eg, malays would speak malay to each other. Can i as a chinese complain just like you are complaining right now?


For god's sake even if there's no speak mandarin campaign the chinese would be speaking their dialects like canto or hokkien and so on to each other. I'm sure you don't understand those dialects so what difference does it make whether it's mandarin or dialect?

You're getting absolutely riddiculous. No singaporean chinese would insist a non chinese to speak to them in mandarin. Yet you're actually getting sensitive when 2 chinese singaporeans speak mandarin to each other rather than english.

Answer me this. Am i allowed to get sensitive if 2 malays speak malay rather than english to each other?


As for this sentence that you wrote

I've been working for the past 30 years and I've always worked in a majority Chinese workplace. (its hard not to in Singapore)

You know i encounter the same problem too. When i'm in japan i don't know why every where it's majority japs, in malaysia majority malays, in USA majority whites, in oz the same too.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

I have worked for many years and I disagree that this is due to Speak Mandarin Campaign.
If I would like to hazard a guess, maybe they are the PRC FTs who naturally is more conversant in Mandarin.

Just to add my personal experience:
My Chinese friends and colleagues have never taken note of the Speak mandrain campaign to purposely speak mandarin to each other. The only occasions that we switched to Mandarin is to speak on sensitive issues which we don't want the other parties (Indians, English, German, Dutch, etc....) to understand.
My children has never spoken in Mandarin with me and their mother as everyday language.

Yup that's right. Since when do the chinese ever speak mandarin to a non chinese? If a non chinese speaks mandarin do you know how much appreciation he gets. I can assure you it's much more compared to a chinese knowing how to speak malay for eg.

In this country it's getting so bloody riddiculous and so sensitive. You just try to get the chinese to speak a common language to unify them, it excludes the non chinese. The non chinese can learn mandarin too.

It's as if the chinese would actually speak to one another in english if the speak mandarin campaign was not enforced. They would be speaking in dialects.


I tell you in this fucking country we have the most riddiculous sensitive ppl. Everything is racist to them. The auntie doesn't smile at him in the shop, she's racist. Police mistaken a keling for a bangala he's racist and he's a malay.


In future all chinese should bowand kneel down to all non chinese and guess what they'll still find something to say that the chinese are racist.

 

[longbow]

Sure that there was a politcal agenda to speak mandarin campaign. But another angle could be that Deng took power in 1978 and opened up China to the world for business. Speak Mandarin campaign started in Singapore shortly after that.

Perhaps MM could see that the future was bright for Mandarin speakers and introduced the speak mandarin campaign. He put $ where his mouth and in 1992 invested billions in Suzhou.

Many Singaporeans are now able to benefit from this ability to converse and write in Mandarin. Many Singaporeans, because of their knowledge of English and Western business management practice (edu in the West) and their knowledge of Chinese language and culture are able to parlay that into lucrative jobs in China.

As for more use of Mandarin - well there is influx of PRC but there is also the cultural influence that China has in the region. Much was made about former Australian PM ability to speak mandarin.

If you look forward, Chinese base of 1.4B united by a common written languange, increasing dominance in this region I think mandarin will be used even more frequently.

Of course the common language between the races is English. What other language would a Malay, Indian and Chinese converse to each other with?

I'm refering to the Speak Mandarin at work campaign which encourages Chinese Singaporeans to speak Mandarin to other Chinese Singaporeans. While this in theory should not affect the rest, it might, in reality cause problems when the conversation is work related and the minority worker is left out.

The other issue is when the non Chinese minority feel left out when everybody else in bantering in Mandarin. I've been working for the past 30 years and I've always worked in a majority Chinese workplace. (its hard not to in Singapore) For the first 15 years, everybody spoke English to each other. However in recent times, my educated Chinese colleagues speak Mandarin to each other, including work related discussions which is not an ideal situation.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Sure that there was a politcal agenda to speak mandarin campaign. But another angle could be that Deng took power in 1978 and opened up China to the world for business. Speak Mandarin campaign started in Singapore shortly after that.

Perhaps MM could see that the future was bright for Mandarin speakers and introduced the speak mandarin campaign. He put $ where his mouth and in 1992 invested billions in Suzhou.

Many Singaporeans are now able to benefit from this ability to converse and write in Mandarin. Many Singaporeans, because of their knowledge of English and Western business management practice (edu in the West) and their knowledge of Chinese language and culture are able to parlay that into lucrative jobs in China.

As for more use of Mandarin - well there is influx of PRC but there is also the cultural influence that China has in the region. Much was made about former Australian PM ability to speak mandarin.

If you look forward, Chinese base of 1.4B united by a common written languange, increasing dominance in this region I think mandarin will be used even more frequently.

Oh you think these ppl like roy that's non chinese would even care about a sinkee chinese having that advantage? All he cares about is the chinese don't speak mandarin so they won't be that united so that somehow he and his kind won't get discriminated.

Of course he never thinks in this manner. If he learns mandarin since sg is chinese majority he'll also be able to converse with the china chinese and actually even be able to work there. Not to mention the chinese fascination with non chinese speaking mandarin he would get more heads up compared to a pure chinese person.

Yet of course he won't even dream of learning mandarin. It's a low class language according to ppl like him. In his world he would expect all the chinese in the world to bend over backwards and speak english so that he can understand.

 

[scroobal]

This has become an interesting thread for a number of reasons. Besides the issue of AMP reacting to old man, other issues have surfaced. Its interesting how people perceive the issue differently.

Here are some comments/observations;
1. Old man claimed that Islam is an issue for the Malays. The issue is not Malays or Islam. Islam has certainly become more militant in the wrong hands and this cunning old man is capitalising on it to instill fear among the non malays. He can't use his old favourite - communist/ marxist bogeyman any longer.

2) Contrary to one chap's claim that Mandarin was introduced as China was opening up under Deng to capitalise it has to do with securing votes. As a Hakka and a fluent Malay and English speaker, he chose a language where his chinese identity can be held and not give anyone or a group domination via dialect. This is to capture Chin Siong's hokkein ground.And he was right. Note the election of LTK on back of Teochew votes.

3) The Chinese Tudung argument came out from left field for many and I think he is right. The Mandarin campaigns and SAPs have been a divisive issue. I remember a neighbour once told me that he does think having SAP is right but as his son could not go to RI , SAP was the right thing to do to secure his future.

4) SAP is now the last bastion of Singapore for many Chinese Singapore parents. Other schools are flooded with FT children of many races and this gives them some security. The same cannot be said for Non-chinese singaporeans

5) Do realise that Chinese like all races are not racist neither are they xenophobic. In fact you can find Chinese mingling with other races all over the world. The French and Japanese are worse. Unfortunately the majority in any society that tend to trample on the minority and have little regard to the sensitivites of others. Look at Malaysia and the Malays there. They have the numbers. They are living off the backs of the hardworking Chinese and the exploited Indians.

6) Singapore Malays have also not been smart. To address the Chinese Tudung matter, they went down the wrong path. They internalised bigger families despite worldwide trend to the contrary. They began to keep to themselves. They became more religious to make a point. I am aware Palestine is central to this and has been a crucial factor to show solidarity around the world. But it made things worse.

Such is mankind. Old man knows that there enough dumb and gullible people and he is smart enough to take them on a ride. Note the number of people who agreed with old man comments about the Malays and Islam. Even to the extent of sharing their experiences about wedding dinners. The person who he took for the longest ride must surely be Rajaratnam.