Chitchat 50 years on and we still consume these "medicines"

[scroobal]

I am not sure if I agree with you. If it is true, then they should be able to prove its value scientifically. Its in their best interest both commercially and as professionals to pay for and run these tests. My guess is that many of these address the symptoms and provides relief such as ordinary painkillers and sedatives but they seldom are the cure.

李时珍 and his 本草纲目 is one of the best documented records on the medicinal properties of plant parts. The description of the plant and its various parts was to the best of its generation. Tested by folks generations over to work. Even modern day science is looking at the TCM herbs: isolating and identifying its active compounds for novel drug discovery.

If you want me to put a figure on it, I'd say about 95% of those individually documented herbs have the medicinal properties as prescribed, put it to double blind test and I say 90% will clear. In terms of the permutations resulting from the types and quantities of herbs used, my confidence level isn't as high as yours. I only put the blame squarely on those who knew too little and yet trying to pull a fast one.

 

[zhihau]

Not talking about TCM but those who rely on TCM record to pedal their own products. The Govt fears the damage to TCM industry so they have left the rogue drugs to continue. It is an issue where sino enclaves are predominant.

It will revolve around TCM. MOH already started regulating TCM with the registration of TCM practitioners for about a decade now, AVA keeping a tab on the bogus drugs in the market. I know it's not helping much when the counterfeit TCM drugs are in the market. Oh well.

 

[halsey02]

That is my generation. In order to prepare for O levels we did chemistry, physics etc and we were taught how to conduct experiments to study cause and effect. We also learned the basics of logical thinking and how to use statistics to prove or disprove a hypothesis and what the term "statistically significant" meant.

What happened to all that knowledge? Why is what we learned not being put into practice in our every day decisions.

What happened to their knowledge of, H.O.K.S..or C.?? what happened to all these knowledge??

 

[zhihau]

My guess is that many of these address the symptoms and provides relief such as ordinary painkillers and sedatives but they seldom are the cure.

There are groups out there currently on a wild goose chase.

Allow me to give my two cents worth: The philosophy behind TCM and western medicine operates on two vastly different perspectives.

Western medicine targets receptors and binding sites to trigger appropriate downstream cascade of gene regulation. Be it up-regulation or down-regulation of the transcripts, and/or using channel blockers to block ions from binding and/or uptake. The autoimmune system will be tightly regulated to work its magic.

TCM on the other hand works on the concepts of yin and yang, the five elements and how each major organ affects the other in an intricate network. The basis is more on regulating circulation of blood and qi, which predominates the entire philosophy. Poor circulation equates to poor health. Thus the central idea of TCM revolves around improving circulation and hence improving health.

Most of the TCM herbs documented are essentially for improving circulation in various parts of the body. Then you need to understand that some herbs act as enhancers or to tone down the effects of the main herb used. Very much like co-factors as we know it, some kuku researchers are thinking these co-factors are the active compound that helps alleviating the symptoms of the patient. How to get results like that, you tell me?

 

[Joanne]

中医因没，或，不够科学证明是不可能变成主流的。中医还是一种伪科学。最多，中医可用之处，也就是附加西医吧了。

 

[zhihau]

What happened to their knowledge of, H.O.K.S..or C.?? what happened to all these knowledge??

The favored theme of the year is acupuncture! Don't believe? Go ask Ah Heng! Teehee...

 

[scroobal]

Good argument and summary.

I do agree that it seems to revolve around circulation. In fact western medicine such as blood pressure bills meant to improve circulation has significant effect on male libido thought they came after TCM. So there are beneficial effects besides the placebo effect which should not be underrated. It is also a "accepted" form of "treatment" by western medical practitioners.

There are groups out there currently on a wild goose chase.

Allow me to give my two cents worth: The philosophy behind TCM and western medicine operates on two vastly different perspectives.

Western medicine targets receptors and binding sites to trigger appropriate downstream cascade of gene regulation. Be it up-regulation or down-regulation of the transcripts, and/or using channel blockers to block ions from binding and/or uptake. The autoimmune system will be tightly regulated to work its magic.

TCM on the other hand works on the concepts of yin and yang, the five elements and how each major organ affects the other in an intricate network. The basis is more on regulating circulation of blood and qi, which predominates the entire philosophy. Poor circulation equates to poor health. Thus the central idea of TCM revolves around improving circulation and hence improving health.

Most of the TCM herbs documented are essentially for improving circulation in various parts of the body. Then you need to understand that some herbs act as enhancers or to tone down the effects of the main herb used. Very much like co-factors as we know it, some kuku researchers are thinking these co-factors are the active compound that helps alleviating the symptoms of the patient. How to get results like that, you tell me?

 

[Ash007]

Yes and no. People especially if they are ill generally assume that if it is publicly available the authorities have allowed it. In the UK, US and Australia, people don't touch these stuff. Not that they are better educated but they are aware.

Not talking about TCM but those who rely on TCM record to pedal their own products. The Govt fears the damage to TCM industry so they have left the rogue drugs to continue. It is an issue where sino enclaves are predominant.

They have other quackery like chlorophyll tablets. People will believe anything. Not just the in Singapore.

 

[scroobal]

I am not surprised. Circulation perhaps.

The favored theme of the year is acupuncture! Don't believe? Go ask Ah Heng! Teehee...

 

[scroobal]

The Malaysians Chinese are the kingpins in these sort of MLM supplements. There is chap that has big farm in Kedah that grows mushrooms for the cancer supplement market. He is a multi-millionaire and got Datukship. His MLM team exports to Chinese customers in Australia as well.

They have other quackery like chlorophyll tablets. People will believe anything. Not just the in Singapore.

 

[Ash007]

The Malaysians Chinese are the kingpins in these sort of MLM supplements. There is chap that has big farm in Kedah that grows mushrooms for the cancer supplement market. He is a multi-millionaire and got Datukship. His MLM team exports to Chinese customers in Australia as well.

Blackmoores, Swiss, biggest consortium here for this sort of things here. Shows the power of marketing. Maybe a good case study of business model.

 

[zhihau]

I am not surprised. Circulation perhaps.

The essence of accupunture is the stimulation of meridians in our body. Directly stimulating the nerves, done correctly you can immobilise a man.

 

[lifeafter41]

Good argument and summary.

I do agree that it seems to revolve around circulation. In fact western medicine such as blood pressure bills meant to improve circulation has significant effect on male libido thought they came after TCM. So there are beneficial effects besides the placebo effect which should not be underrated. It is also a "accepted" form of "treatment" by western medical practitioners.

Poor circulation means poor health......acupuncture is to improved circulation.
I have always believe excercise will improve ones circulation and ones health.

Just that some people are either just too lazy to do it.
Unless, one is either seriously ill or incapacitated.

 

[zhihau]

Poor circulation means poor health......acupuncture is to improved circulation.
I have always believe excercise will improve ones circulation and ones health.

Just that some people are either just too lazy to do it.
Unless, one is either seriously ill or incapacitated.

I sell koyok a bit, I'm into QiGong nowadays and I must say its pretty darn good. Think I'll branch into TaiJi and probably WingChun, maybe even Muay Thai...

 

[scroobal]

Blood thinners under western medical direction does the same. Agree that exercise is the way to go.

Poor circulation means poor health......acupuncture is to improved circulation.
I have always believe excercise will improve ones circulation and ones health.

Just that some people are either just too lazy to do it.
Unless, one is either seriously ill or incapacitated.

 

[Leongsam]

Poor circulation equates to poor health. Thus the central idea of TCM revolves around improving circulation and hence improving health.

Most of the TCM herbs documented are essentially for improving circulation in various parts of the body. Then you need to understand that some herbs act as enhancers or to tone down the effects of the main herb used. Very much like co-factors as we know it, some kuku researchers are thinking these co-factors are the active compound that helps alleviating the symptoms of the patient. How to get results like that, you tell me?

The term "circulation" needs to be defined. What exactly is being targeted by the appropriate herb? Does "circulation" refer to blood or some other body fluid?

Assuming that a person has normal blood pressure what would cause "circulation" to be poor in certain parts of the body? A narrowing of the blood vessels? Viscosity of blood too high? Exactly which parameter is the issue?

In a knowledge based environment, surely it is not too much to ask exactly what TCM concoctions actually do to improve health. If they widen blood vessels in certain organs or remove deposits surely this can be measured and documented.

"Yin" and "Yang" are nice concepts but there must be some enzyme or hormone that can be measured to see whether we are in a balanced state. If it is there then biochemical technology should be able to measure it.

 

[scroobal]

Aiyah, that a true blue proper exercise. very good for the elderly as it is low impact, no damage to the joint, improves breathing etc. The added plus is the peer group pressure to do it right and practitioners without intending cut down on bad diet, build discipline etc.

It catching on round the world. Yoga is the other similar exercise and now all the rage among the young and the middle age. Thats too will force you to have the right diet to do all that stuff.

I sell koyok a bit, I'm into QiGong nowadays and I must say its pretty darn good. Think I'll branch into TaiJi and probably WingChun, maybe even Muay Thai...

 

[Leongsam]

Poor circulation means poor health......acupuncture is to improved circulation.
I have always believe excercise will improve ones circulation and ones health.

How does acupuncture improve circulation? What is the mechanism?

 

[nayr69sg]

How does acupuncture improve circulation? What is the mechanism?

TCM is a philosophy. Not a science. They made observations and used philosophy to explain the associations. Eg kidney problems had a link to heart failure and vice versa. They put Kidney under water and Heart under fire to explain the relationship.

When TCM says "circulation" and "blood" it is not a western scientific description of red blood cells carrying oxygen, plasma carrying chemical components in the veins to target cells etc. It is not even the blood circulatory system. It is a philosophy.

There are the meridians (no western equivalent) that carry Qi (energy). Blood is some kind of tonic energy that "circulates" as well. If it "stagnates" it causes problems like pain.

You cannot use western scientific terms with TCM philosophical terms interchangeably.

I will give this to the Chinese, they saw all the associations a long time ago and were correct. But they could not explain it scientifically. Instead they came up with a fancy philosophy of wood, fire, earth, metal, water. And Qi, blood, essence etc. All this of course in today's world is outdated. They did associate how the psychological state of the mind eg stress, depression, anxiety , worry could PHYSICALLY alter organ structures. This was actually prevalent in western medicine until Rene Descarte came in with his Cartesian view and the human body was looked at as a machine that the mind was no longer a factor. Whether this is correct or not, is still a mystery if you ask me. I do believe that stress and a poor state of mind can cause many diseases. How does that happen? How do you explain it? Well science today still cannot explain it, so.....go back to philosophy.

Anyway in the west we have Anti-vaxxers. So it is all over the world lah.

 

[johnny333]

Nothing wrong with it......

"Snake powder capsule" and "JC gold" is the pioneer generation's snake oil remedy and magic capsule.......

the current generation's magic capsule and snake oil capsule is "veganism" "soursopism" " juicing" and "gluten free" and any other fucktarded tonyism........nothing changes,the idiots just get more and more sophisticated.

Some may have noticed that there are many doctors in the gov't.
Health in Spore has been politicised so that doctors can make $$$ from their patients.

Dr Susan Lim charged a patient 30+ million for her services. She only got in trouble because the patient died & the relatives made a complaint to LKY.

She did not lose her medical licence. Her medical license was only suspended. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Lim

While doctors who try to provide cheap solutions find themselves in trouble with the "authorities" in Spore. Take for example intravenous chelation which cleans the body of heavy metals. It is one of the recommended protocols for people with heart problems. In Spore only doctors are allowed to provide IV chelation & yet they have to do it very quietly because those who provide this treatment are often raided & harassed by the police,

ECCP is a non-invasive treatment for those with heart problems. It can only be performed under the supervision of a doctor. For those who haven't heard of ECCP.

[video=youtube;yj9mn_VpJ9o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9mn_VpJ9o[/video]


You will not find it being offered in Spore. One has to go elsewhere e.g. Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, USA, ,,,, Why is it not offered in Spore?

Probably because of the economics, a cardiologist can make more recommending stents. They can charge thousands of $$$$$$. Stents also require hospitalisation which is good for bizness for the hospitals. While a session of ECCP costs only $200 to $300 & does not requires hospitaization.